Rumor Stitch's Great Escape Replacement— Don’t Hold Your Breath

[Matt_Black]

but man oh man this company really just doesn't give a thought to original ideas anymore, does it?

*Ahem*

Wreck It Ralph is an original idea.

So is Frozen for that matter, but people don't want to hear that when there's torches to light and pitchforks to sharpen.

I think they mean, "ride ideas not based on movies".

 

[Andrew C]

*Ahem*



I think they mean, "ride ideas not based on movies".

Not sure if it is laziness...or there are just so many creative things coming out of movies that could be amazing in a park setting. Or maybe neither of these reasons..I dunno...lol

 

[CaptainAmerica]

I think they mean, "ride ideas not based on movies".

I know what they mean. These are also the same people most likely to invoke Walt, the man who created the theme parks as a way to take people inside these stories. Was there anything at Disneyland that wasn't based on film or fairy tale?

 

[alphac2005]

Fastpass does not affect capacity. It only affects how long you wait in standby.

How does FastPass not affect the rate of people flowing through attractions per hour? I've been in numerous lines where there is a hold on standby for X period of time with a significantly smaller volume of people passing in that same time as a standby line and throw in the then stopping the lines, shifting to the other group going, it most certainly adds up. Maybe someone with real OPs numbers could help us out here with numbers past versus present.

 

[doctornick]

So no, there's technically nothing "tomorrow-ish" about Sugar Rush or Monsters, Inc. Laugh Floor, but I get how video games and monsters fit in with aliens and spaceships in "Tomorrowland." It doesn't feel out of place.

TL is basically sci-fi fantasyland anyway at this point, not really about the future. Anything that fits sci-fi type tropes (like aliens or advanced technology) "fits".

Laugh Floor is more stretched IMHO, but at least the idea of inter-dimensional portals connecting our world to that of the Monsters fits in a tortuous manner.

That all being said, I'm far more bothered thematically by the gas guzzling cars of the Speedway not fitting than Stitch or Monsters Inc.

 

[Thanks phoenicians]

So is the timeline really for this to close by the end of the year and open in 18?

 

[doctornick]

How does FastPass not affect the rate of people flowing through attractions per hour? I've been in numerous lines where there is a hold on standby for X period of time with a significantly smaller volume of people passing in that same time as a standby line and throw in the then stopping the lines, shifting to the other group going, it most certainly adds up. Maybe someone with real OPs numbers could help us out here with numbers past versus present.

Huh? FP use would only be affecting capacity if vehicles were being dispatched unfilled which doesn't happen. What FP does is transfers wait times from people in the FP line (who wait less than they otherwise would) to standby (who wait longer). But wait times for people in line does not impact capacity (total people who ride the ride per hour).

 

[Miceberg]

I know what they mean. These are also the same people most likely to invoke Walt, the man who created the theme parks as a way to take people inside these stories. Was there anything at Disneyland that wasn't based on film or fairy tale?

Here are a few: Adventures in Innerspace, People Mover, IASW, POTC, Space Mountain

 

[RoysCabin]

I know what they mean. These are also the same people most likely to invoke Walt, the man who created the theme parks as a way to take people inside these stories. Was there anything at Disneyland that wasn't based on film or fairy tale?

You say you know what I mean, yet you put your own take on it entirely. That's poor form.

For one, I have not cited Walt once in just about any of my posts concerning theming and what have you; Walt, after all, has not been with us for fifty years, and a lot changes in a half century.

However, speaking as somebody who even as a young child was never a big Fantasyland fan, I think it's a sign of being willfully obtuse to say "Walt used fairy tales" as some sort of parallel to "Iger and the boys use direct IP overlays". Yes, Fantasyland always had rides directly lifted from Disney studio films, it's not like there isn't a place for those, and yes Frontierland did a lot of theming using small details that brought to mind Davy Crockett or the works of Mark Twain, plenty of space for that, too, but it speaks volumes when corporate under Iger has not green lit a single non-IP driven attraction in the main US theme parks.

Pirates lifted from films with pirates in them, but became it's own thing; same with Haunted Mansion lifting from ghost stories. Let's not act like there's some 1:1 comparison to be made, here.

 

[Monorail_Orange]

How does FastPass not affect the rate of people flowing through attractions per hour? I've been in numerous lines where there is a hold on standby for X period of time with a significantly smaller volume of people passing in that same time as a standby line and throw in the then stopping the lines, shifting to the other group going, it most certainly adds up. Maybe someone with real OPs numbers could help us out here with numbers past versus present.

Huh? FP use would only be affecting capacity if vehicles were being dispatched unfilled which doesn't happen. What FP does is transfers wait times from people in the FP line (who wait less than they otherwise would) to standby (who wait longer). But wait times for people in line does not impact capacity (total people who ride the ride per hour).

Exactly, not to be rude or condescending, but you are confusing a reduction in capacity with an increase in stand-by wait times. The hold on the stand-by queue is merely to keep the wait time short following merge, so FastPass lives up to its promise of taking you up to "the front of the line." Unless they are dispatching empty ride vehicles (which is what Stand-By avoids), hourly capacity is not reduced. It is a different discussion as to whether FP increases Stand-By wait times, and whether such increase is a net benefit or detriment to guests. I am of the opinion it increases Stand-By times, while having an overall negative impact on how many attractions one can experience in any given day.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Here's the thing about "theme."

People get caught up in a legalistic (overly concerned with technicalities) understanding of theme and ignore the fact that theme is really more about feeling than it is about rules. A good example is the sorcerer hat in Hollywood Studios. Technically, the hat is from Fantasia, a film that was made by Disney in a studio in Hollywood (technically Burbank, but same thing). Thus, you could make the argument that it absolutely belonged in a place called "Disney's Hollywood Studios." The problem with the hat is that it didn't fit in with the feel of the park even if it was technically "themed" appropriately.

Another example would be Splash Mountain. Frontierland is the home of the American old west. Splash Mountain is set in reconstruction-era Georgia. Yet I don't see people crying that Splash Mountain is an outrage that doesn't belong in Frontierland. Why? Because it feels right.

So no, there's technically nothing "tomorrow-ish" about Sugar Rush or Monsters, Inc. Laugh Floor, but I get how video games and monsters fit in with aliens and spaceships in "Tomorrowland." It doesn't feel out of place.

TL;DR...

Sorcerer hat: Fits rules, doesn't fit feel
Splash Mountain: Fits feel, doesn't fit rules

You're explanation only works by completely ignoring the actual theme and focusing on a few buzz words. Hollywood Blvd was about the fantasy of Hollywood as a town during a certain time period. The only way the Sorcerer's Hat gets any connection to that is through California Crazy, which it completely misses in its subject matter, materials and placement. It felt wrong because the connection was not in theme, but marketing buzz words of "movies" and "Hollwood" which are derived from the theme, not used to shape it. Inversely, Frontierland has only ever been limited to the west at Disneyland Paris. Even Westernland maintains the non-western frontier elements, its name being a convenience of translation. Splash Mountain is not out of theme with Frontierland, only its immediate surroundings at Magic Kingdom.

Digital today is hardly even in line with a feeling of futurism. It's showing people what is in their pockets and sitting in their living rooms.

Wreck It Ralph is an original idea.

So is Frozen for that matter, but people don't want to hear that when there's torches to light and pitchforks to sharpen.

And neither would exist if Walt Disney Animation Studios was only allowed to pursue established franchises as has been decreed regarding the parks.

 

[Pumbaa1222]

Hey, @marni1971 , do you have a diagram of the current layout of Stitch, and its theaters? Wondering to see how this would fit in.

http://wdwthemeparks.com/photos-disney/2014/11/15/r-1416085593-AlienEncounter1.JPG

 

[raymusiccity]

You may be onto something there... I could see this happening.
[EDIT] I posted this verrry late at night and I forgot they were separate locations, sorry!

Cost would probably be prohibitive, but connecting the two could work if they were replacing both locations with Tron Cycles !

 

[Mike S]

Here's the thing about "theme."

People get caught up in a legalistic (overly concerned with technicalities) understanding of theme and ignore the fact that theme is really more about feeling than it is about rules. A good example is the sorcerer hat in Hollywood Studios. Technically, the hat is from Fantasia, a film that was made by Disney in a studio in Hollywood (technically Burbank, but same thing). Thus, you could make the argument that it absolutely belonged in a place called "Disney's Hollywood Studios." The problem with the hat is that it didn't fit in with the feel of the park even if it was technically "themed" appropriately.

Another example would be Splash Mountain. Frontierland is the home of the American old west. Splash Mountain is set in reconstruction-era Georgia. Yet I don't see people crying that Splash Mountain is an outrage that doesn't belong in Frontierland. Why? Because it feels right.

So no, there's technically nothing "tomorrow-ish" about Sugar Rush or Monsters, Inc. Laugh Floor, but I get how video games and monsters fit in with aliens and spaceships in "Tomorrowland." It doesn't feel out of place.

TL;DR...

Sorcerer hat: Fits rules, doesn't fit feel
Splash Mountain: Fits feel, doesn't fit rules

People physically entering the video game world is futuristic? *shrugs*

Honestly I care more about sticking to a more realistic theme in Future World than Tomorrowland. Personally though I would say they should put BH6 where MILF is. That could actually be a better fit than WIR which I'm willing to give a chance because I liked the movie and Stitch is finally leaving

*Ahem*

Very big exception from the rule. I am a bit excited for it though. Finally something new at one of the water parks.

#ThanksVolcanoBay

 

[brettf22]

Ding, dong, the Stitch is dead.

 

[Princess Leia]

Ding, dong, the Stitch is dead.

I literally was singing that in my head yesterday.

 

[Princess Leia]

What I would really like to see for Tomorrowland-

• Baymax Encounter (probably fits Tomorrowland better than WIR)
• the removal of the Speedway. That is a huge parcel of land, and any change would be welcome. Personally, I'd like to see it turned into an Enchanted Forest of some sort. Let it bridge the gap between NFL and Tomorrowland.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

You're explanation only works by completely ignoring the actual theme and focusing on a few buzz words. Hollywood Blvd was about the fantasy of Hollywood as a town during a certain time period. The only way the Sorcerer's Hat gets any connection to that is through California Crazy, which it completely misses in its subject matter, materials and placement. It felt wrong because the connection was not in theme, but marketing buzz words of "movies" and "Hollwood" which are derived from the theme, not used to shape it. Inversely, Frontierland has only ever been limited to the west at Disneyland Paris. Even Westernland maintains the non-western frontier elements, its name being a convenience of translation. Splash Mountain is not out of theme with Frontierland, only its immediate surroundings at Magic Kingdom.

Splash Mountain doesn't fit in that aesthetic no matter how you stretch it.

Digital today is hardly even in line with a feeling of futurism. It's showing people what is in their pockets and sitting in their living rooms.

Even more reason why science-fantasy is necessary for Tomorrowland in 2016. The land can't represent the future like 2001: A Space Odyssey did in 1968.

And neither would exist if Walt Disney Animation Studios was only allowed to pursue established franchises as has been decreed regarding the parks.

Disney is ONE company. You don't get to slam parks for using ideas developed by WDAS because that's still Disney's original idea. If you want to complain about Marvel, Star Wars, or pre-merger Pixar, fine.

 

[yellowrocket]

Was there anything at Disneyland that wasn't based on film or fairy tale?

Here are a few: Adventures in Innerspace, People Mover, IASW, POTC, Space Mountain

PLUS... Mine Train Through Nature's Wonderland, Autopias, Jungle Cruise (sorta), Mark Twain Riverboat, Main Street Vehicles, Matterhorn (sorta), Sailing Ship Columbia, Disneyland Monorail, Enchanted Tiki Room, Haunted Mansion, Astro Jets, Submarine Voyage, Great Moments with Mr. Lincoln, Main Street Shooting Gallery, Circarama/Circle Vision 360, Space Station X-1, Tomorrowland/Phantom Boats, Aluminum Hall of Fame, Rocket to the Moon/Mission to Mars, Skyway, Viewliner, House of the Future, Flying Saucers, Carousel of Progress, Golden Horseshoe Saloon, Pack Mules, Miniature Horse Corral, Stage Coach, Conestoga Wagons, Indian War Canoes (later renamed to the IP of Davey Crocket), Canal Boats of the World (later rethemed to the IPs in Storybook Land).

Walt oversaw FAR more original attractions at Disneyland than those based on IPs and fairy tales.

 

[Brad Bishop]

Here are a few: Adventures in Innerspace, People Mover, IASW, POTC, Space Mountain

Haunted Mansion, Tiki Room, Jungle Cruise, Autopia, Astro Jets, Submarine Voyage (MK's was based on 20K Leagues but DL's wasn't), Rivers of America with both of the ships, Tom Sawyer Island, Big Thunder Mountain, Country Bear Jamboree, Adventures Through Inner Space, Mission to the Moon, Circlevision 360, Monorail...

Lots of original ideas.. No IPs.

Edit: @yellowrocket beat me to it.