Step up, step down: Monorail and Transports(buses)sheer stupidity??

[thomas998]

The above are all examples of Government transportation systems. They are just as big of a target for liability claims as a Disney is. The model is out there and used all the time. It's not a hypothetical - it's common practice.

The gap issue is addressed by the train's door/floor.. not precise alignment. Sure it adds precision to where they must be to load... but that is another thing that can be addressed with aides when you have a fixed environment.

I think the biggest problem for Disney is cost and desire for flexibility. I mean, they could build the entire bus depot elevated if they wanted to.. but clearly they haven't.

I agree they could do it if they wanted to.... the fact that they haven't decided to do it tell me that that the benefits of doing it don't out weight the costs.

As for government transportation systems being as prone to litigation, that isn't always the case as governments often write laws to limit the ability of them being sued. Frankly the thing that has always boggled my mind is the typical public subway never has anything to safeguard passengers from falling off the platform to the tracks below, when it would be very easy to install the same type of gate system Disney uses for monorails... yet the government run subways don't seem to care or worry about the occasional person that jumps, falls or is pushed onto the tracks.

 

[POLY LOVER]

Is this really a huge problem?

 

[Monorail_Red_77]

the main problem with the monorail loading platforms is that the monorail doors open outward. If they were to make the load platform the same level, the doors would not open. In order to allow the doors to open the platform would have a gap between the load platform and monorail floor of at least 8" or more probably. This would be a huge risk with there being critical accidents possible in those gaps. Don't forget that the monorail runs on 600 volts DC which is on the bus bar on the sides of the monorail beam. Children could fall down there as well as adults legs getting caught, etc. The CM's are very proficient at loading and unloading guests with ECV or wheelchairs. They used wheeled ramps that they can slide into place rather quickly at each door as needed. Also, as mentioned earlier in the thread, all current Disney buses are kneeling with flip out ramps at the rear as well.

 

[Goofyernmost]

Disney buses do that now, they kneel the bus and flip a simple ramp out of the back door. This handles the case where there are no curbs.

Very close. The old buses had either collapsing stairways in the rear of the bus that extended out to accommodate wheelchairs of scooters as a lift type set up or they had a special access for chairs that were strictly for them. Not usable for able bodied riders. (those are still quite common. The newer buses and most of the older ones have a Kneel process that moves the front down to almost, if not, curb level for the front door. The new buses front door also kneel and a ramp quickly folds out of the floor and makes an almost level ramp for chairs, etc. Also some models have then in the back or toward the middle of the bus Those doors can be used by anyone. The older foldout and even hydraulic platform ones were always prone to breakdown. And if they got stuck and didn't lock in when folded in you sat there a long time waiting for maintenance to arrive. The safety feature built in is one that will not allow the bus to move unless that access is secured. I can't speak for anyone else, but, I hated them. I had to hold my breath every time I used them in total fear that they would get stuck someplace that rendered the bus motionless.

 

[POLY LOVER]

What you need is the goesintas module that could be retrofitted to the monorails and buses. This would allowed the monorail to goes into the platform without you having to take that huge step to get on or off it.

 

[kap91]

Level access can also vastly improve the loading times of a transit vehicle, especially when wheelchairs need to be loaded. Right now it takes atrociously long to board the bus even when there aren't wheelchairs or strollers because everyone has to enter single file up the staircase. Here's an example of Bus Rapid Transit that I was talking about earlier. Note that it still includes a regular bus door for flexibility at smaller stations or side routes.

 

[OsbourneCox]

Wow, after a bunch of posts someone finally said it.
I have been waiting for this.

Level access can also vastly improve the loading times of a transit vehicle, especially when wheelchairs need to be loaded. Right now it takes atrociously long to board the bus even when there aren't wheelchairs or strollers

This was the underlying point of my rhetorically laced question: TIME

It is not much fun waiting for loading and/or unloading of chairs come 12:30 nighttime after a long day in the parks
Or trying to make that FP time window, meet your party or be on time for a dinner reservation.

 

[lazyboy97o]

the main problem with the monorail loading platforms is that the monorail doors open outward. If they were to make the load platform the same level, the doors would not open. In order to allow the doors to open the platform would have a gap between the load platform and monorail floor of at least 8" or more probably. This would be a huge risk with there being critical accidents possible in those gaps. Don't forget that the monorail runs on 600 volts DC which is on the bus bar on the sides of the monorail beam. Children could fall down there as well as adults legs getting caught, etc. The CM's are very proficient at loading and unloading guests with ECV or wheelchairs. They used wheeled ramps that they can slide into place rather quickly at each door as needed. Also, as mentioned earlier in the thread, all current Disney buses are kneeling with flip out ramps at the rear as well.

These issues are specific to the current door design and could be overcome by replacing the doors with the current INNOVIA 200 design.

Level loading of the monorails would require a lot more than just changes to the doors. The trains already sit very low, so the station platforms would have to be raised, that means reworking all stairs, ramps and elevators to meet the new height. Just a 1” rise requires an additional 12’ of ramp, and if that makes a section of ramp longer than 30’ then an additional landing is required.

 

[POLY LOVER]

The greatest blow to the efficiency of loading and unloading is the new security bag check system at the hotels. You can do all you want about level platforms but that will do nothing if you are only allowing 25 people at a time on the monorail platform. Just check the lines at the Floridian alone! It's a necessary evil but it has loading ramifications and it's not because people have to step up or down to get on.

 

[Bullseye1967]

Level access can also vastly improve the loading times of a transit vehicle, especially when wheelchairs need to be loaded. Right now it takes atrociously long to board the bus even when there aren't wheelchairs or strollers because everyone has to enter single file up the staircase. Here's an example of Bus Rapid Transit that I was talking about earlier. Note that it still includes a regular bus door for flexibility at smaller stations or side routes.

I think you are grossly underestimating the huge changes Disney would need to make to implement this. Take the number of stops on one route and it is big, but not crazy. If you take into account all the multiple loading zones at each park, BB, TL, and DD, and then add in one to three stops at each resort, you are talking about a huge project to save some time in a process that already works. It comes down to one thing. Is the cost worth the time savings to the guests? The buses get backed up for more reasons than an ECV or wheelchair taking time to load. Is it a perfect system? NO, but it does eventually get the job done.

 

[POLY LOVER]

I think you are grossly underestimating the huge changes Disney would need to make to implement to do this. Take the number of stops on one route and it is big, but not crazy. If you take into account all the multiple loading zones at each park, BB, TL, and DD, and then add in one to three stops at each resort, you are talking about a huge project to save some time in a process that already works. It comes down to one thing. Is the cost worth the time savings to the guests? The buses get backed up for more reasons than an ECV or wheelchair taking time to load. Is it a perfect system? NO, but it does eventually get the job done.

Like you say Disney has bigger issues to resolve right now, this would be way down on the to do list.

 

[POLY LOVER]

Disney installed the bus only lanes at Disney springs, I wonder if that will be expanded around the resort roads?

 

[Bullseye1967]

Disney installed the bus only lanes at Disney springs, I wonder if that will be expanded around the resort roads?

It is going up Buena Vista also. From what I hear it will not cover all of property, but will be implemented to go around the usual traffic choke points.

 

[kap91]

I think you are grossly underestimating the huge changes Disney would need to make to implement this. Take the number of stops on one route and it is big, but not crazy. If you take into account all the multiple loading zones at each park, BB, TL, and DD, and then add in one to three stops at each resort, you are talking about a huge project to save some time in a process that already works. It comes down to one thing. Is the cost worth the time savings to the guests? The buses get backed up for more reasons than an ECV or wheelchair taking time to load. Is it a perfect system? NO, but it does eventually get the job done.

Saying the current system works is laughable. I mean I suppose it functions, but guests routinely have to wait ridiculously long for busses to show up, the loading process is slow and tedious, it can easily take an hour to get someplace only couple miles away. And more and more people continue to visit the resort and use the transportation system. The bus system as it stands now it’s not a practical solution for the needs of the resort. Simply adding more buses won’t help the inherent problems with t. Something will need to be done, it’s just what options they choose. One thing to be implemented in that system will surely be level loading. It saves time and saves money (think about the CM at every monorail station that’s paid all day just to put down the wheelchair ramp and pick it up. Watch how fast the stops are at subway and light rail stations are in cities compared to how slow the monorail and glacial the bus stops are at Disney. The faster the load time the more vehicles you can run)

Yes it would cost to retrofit the current stations. Though not all stations have to be retrofit (see the video). And it would cost to retrofit and/or buy new busses (though many will need to be replaced soon anyway). Any transportation improvement will cost. I’m a fan BRT because it is flexible, uses a lot of existing infrastructure, and is way more financially feasible (and quicker to build) than the alternatives (expanding the monorail, light rail, streetcar, peoplemover). It can easily be built in stages rather than large portions all at once. It’s also a fairly novel mode of transport for much of the world, certainly the states, and can be easily styled to look fancy while using largely stock assets.

 

[kap91]

I’d also argue that Disney’s current approach of one stop per destination at the parks and Springs is a giganticly inefficient, slow, and physically tiring way of doing things that could easily be reconfigured to use half as much space but what do I know.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Saying the current system works is laughable. I mean I suppose it functions, but guests routinely have to wait ridiculously long for busses to show up, the loading process is slow and tedious, it can easily take an hour to get someplace only couple miles away. And more and more people continue to visit the resort and use the transportation system. The bus system as it stands now it’s not a practical solution for the needs of the resort. Simply adding more buses won’t help the inherent problems with t. Something will need to be done, it’s just what options they choose. One thing to be implemented in that system will surely be level loading. It saves time and saves money (think about the CM at every monorail station that’s paid all day just to put down the wheelchair ramp and pick it up. Watch how fast the stops are at subway and light rail stations are in cities compared to how slow the monorail and glacial the bus stops are at Disney. The faster the load time the more vehicles you can run)

Yes it would cost to retrofit the current stations. Though not all stations have to be retrofit (see the video). And it would cost to retrofit and/or buy new busses (though many will need to be replaced soon anyway). Any transportation improvement will cost. I’m a fan BRT because it is flexible, uses a lot of existing infrastructure, and is way more financially feasible (and quicker to build) than the alternatives (expanding the monorail, light rail, streetcar, peoplemover). It can easily be built in stages rather than large portions all at once. It’s also a fairly novel mode of transport for much of the world, certainly the states, and can be easily styled to look fancy while using largely stock assets.

The most fundamental problem with transportation at Walt Disney World is the organization of the Resort itself. It has become the sprawl Disney World was supposed to react against.

While level loading would remove the need to lower buses, it would not remove the greater amount of time taken to properly secure passengers.

 

[DisneyJoe]

The Skyliner should be a step in the right direction

 

[DisneyJoe]

In the last 10 years, I have found the wheelchair/ECV loading/unloading process to have improved tremendously. Moving away from the lifts was the first step, the ramps are much much better. In the last few years, instead of allowing an ECV driver to attempt to put the ECV in the securement location, all bus drivers are now trained to park it for them and secure it quickly.

As someone who uses an ECV on every trip to WDW, I am surprised at how much quicker the process is now.

 

[draybook]

Just take personal responsibility, a strange concept I know, and watch your step. Disney should not have to cater to those who are incapable of easily stepping on a bus

Why not? They cater to smokers who can't seem to go a whole day without smoking. Or drinkers who can't go a whole day without alcohol. Disney seems to be in the business of catering.


/edited to add that I'm just being facetious this afternoon. But it would be nice to not have to do wheelies when loading our strollers into the monorail.

 

[Sjn]

You are one smart cookie with your axel
and suspension poke.

No, it was a matter of taking an "off the shelf" item----semi mass produced buses from a bus builder--- and supplying a huge fleet, dress up the outside Disney style and save money by not ordering the proper modification( elimination of stair/steps).


Furthermore, I said loading should be at the same level. In other words build the proper platform in the bus stations to RISE TO THE SAME HEIGHT AS THE BUS STANDING AND SEATING AREA........thus circumventing the inherent elevating features( tires, axels and suspension) of vehicles.

Have you ever ridden Kilimanjaro Safari? Those transports have axels and suspension and yet guests enter the seating at same level.

Have you ever been to Dulles Airport in Wash DC? Those transports also have same level loading.

I get what you are saying but, just take a minute to roughly count how many bus stops would need to be reconstructed. We are talking about hundreds of them.