Step up, step down: Monorail and Transports(buses)sheer stupidity??

[OsbourneCox]

Is there a legitimate reason as to why the Monorail loading and unloading platforms are lower than the train which creates a step?

And similarly why do the Transports have built in stairs which cause monster delays with chair loading. These buses should have never been built with steps.

Both train and bus should have an exact same height loading dock or platform so stroller, chair riders can move aboard and disembark without any inconvenience nor delay.

Millions of guests use these two so why are they not built properly for streamlining and greater efficiency??

 

[flynnibus]

Monorail design of the doors dictates the raised entrance. They were built before roll on access was a thing.

Buses aren't ground level because of those pesky things like axels and suspension.

Both systems are built to accommodate the wheeled vehicles... not optimized for them specifically.

 

[kap91]

The monorails are hard to change because of the door design. Buses for the reasons above.

However level access is now a thing that’s becoming common place. If the world ever invests in a bus rapid transit system you can be sure it’ll be implemented. Same for if and when new monorail trains ever get made.

 

[OsbourneCox]

Buses aren't ground level because of those pesky things like axels and suspension.

You are one smart cookie with your axel
and suspension poke.

No, it was a matter of taking an "off the shelf" item----semi mass produced buses from a bus builder--- and supplying a huge fleet, dress up the outside Disney style and save money by not ordering the proper modification( elimination of stair/steps).


Furthermore, I said loading should be at the same level. In other words build the proper platform in the bus stations to RISE TO THE SAME HEIGHT AS THE BUS STANDING AND SEATING AREA........thus circumventing the inherent elevating features( tires, axels and suspension) of vehicles.

Have you ever ridden Kilimanjaro Safari? Those transports have axels and suspension and yet guests enter the seating at same level.

Have you ever been to Dulles Airport in Wash DC? Those transports also have same level loading.

 

[donsullivan]

Changing bus design and requiring elevated platforms for access is not a practical solution. That then requires all kinds of ramps and lifts to be built into boarding platforms to raise the passenger up to the bus level before boarding. It massively removes flexibility for load and unload locations that are one of the common drivers of why buses are utilized. In their current design a bus can be pulled up nearly anywhere for load and unload which is the optimal design.

 

[21stamps]

Does anyone actually want higher prices due to a level loading area for busses?

We can step up and step down.. there is a ramp for people who can not.

 

[OsbourneCox]

That then requires all kinds of ramps and lifts to be built into boarding platforms to raise the passenger up to the bus level before boarding.

You mean the kinds that are already close to EVERYWHERE on property servicing parks and resorts.
You can do better than that

 

[OsbourneCox]

Defeatism and apologies abound here.

 

[thomas998]

You are one smart cookie with your axel
and suspension poke.

No, it was a matter of taking an "off the shelf" item----semi mass produced buses from a bus builder--- and supplying a huge fleet, dress up the outside Disney style and save money by not ordering the proper modification( elimination of stair/steps).


Furthermore, I said loading should be at the same level. In other words build the proper platform in the bus stations to RISE TO THE SAME HEIGHT AS THE BUS STANDING AND SEATING AREA........thus circumventing the inherent elevating features( tires, axels and suspension) of vehicles.

Have you ever ridden Kilimanjaro Safari? Those transports have axels and suspension and yet guests enter the seating at same level.

Have you ever been to Dulles Airport in Wash DC? Those transports also have same level loading.

Reality is a motor vehicle is going to have to be a certain height above the road. Yes you could build elevated platforms to allow people to walk straight on a bus, but if you did that you've just forced everyone to walk up steps to that loading platform so it doesn't really eliminate the need to walk up steps it just places the steps in a different location. You would also then have the dangers of people especially kids jumping or falling off the bus entry point when they were waiting for a bus before it arrived so doing what you suggest would require Disney to have a CM at every bus stop making sure darling little rug rats didn't get hurt... Or you could have the people walk up the steps on the bus eliminating the danger of kids getting hurt... which do you think makes the most sense?

 

[flynnibus]

You are one smart cookie with your axel
and suspension poke.

It's not a poke - when people ask 'why isn't the bus ground level' - not all understand that heavy load vehicles tend to use solid axel designs and usually don't have the luxury of lowering the body level of a vehicle.

Furthermore, I said loading should be at the same level. In other words build the proper platform in the bus stations to RISE TO THE SAME HEIGHT AS THE BUS STANDING AND SEATING AREA........thus circumventing the inherent elevating features( tires, axels and suspension) of vehicles.

Yet.. you named your thread about the VEHICLE - not the loading platform... additionally you just blamed Disney for the type of bus they used...

No, it was a matter of taking an "off the shelf" item----semi mass produced buses from a bus builder--- and supplying a huge fleet, dress up the outside Disney style and save money by not ordering the proper modification( elimination of stair/steps).

So pardon me for responding to your question about the VEHICLES.

Yes they could build loading platforms to eliminate the ramp portion of the exercise - the problem with that is space. A platform that rises 16" would be required to be 16' long.. and would need to be the minimum width for both the ramp itself, and for a turn (if the ramp were not perpendicular to the entrance).

At an area where this is most needed (the park bus stations), space is a premium.

Given the MK just designed and built an entire new bus depot area in the ECV-era... and didn't do anything like this... would suggest this isn't viable for reasons not listed here.

 

[flynnibus]

Just take personal responsibility, a strange concept I know, and watch your step. Disney should not have to cater to those who are incapable of easily stepping on a bus

ehh... you do grasp that this is about wheelchair accessibility... not simply navigating steps/ledges.

 

[flynnibus]

You would also then have the dangers of people especially kids jumping or falling off the bus entry point when they were waiting for a bus before it arrived so doing what you suggest would require Disney to have a CM at every bus stop making sure darling little rug rats didn't get hurt... Or you could have the people walk up the steps on the bus eliminating the danger of kids getting hurt... which do you think makes the most sense?

This design is used at ground level train stops in many places. I don't think people jumping off the 16" high step is a big concern... I mean, there are planters like that everywhere in the parks And it wouldn't be steps, it would be a ramp (else, you defeat the entire purpose).

Examples include:

A bus one wouldn't even need to be as tall... these are tall because the floors of trains are higher than buses.

 

[21stamps]

This design is used at ground level train stops in many places. I don't think people jumping off the 16" high step is a big concern... I mean, there are planters like that everywhere in the parks And it wouldn't be steps, it would be a ramp (else, you defeat the entire purpose).

Examples include:
View attachment 250539 View attachment 250540 View attachment 250541

A bus one wouldn't even need to be as tall... these are tall because the floors of trains are higher than buses.

The busses already have ramps for people on ecvs and wheelchairs.

 

[thomas998]

This design is used at ground level train stops in many places. I don't think people jumping off the 16" high step is a big concern... I mean, there are planters like that everywhere in the parks And it wouldn't be steps, it would be a ramp (else, you defeat the entire purpose).

Examples include:
View attachment 250539 View attachment 250540 View attachment 250541

A bus one wouldn't even need to be as tall... these are tall because the floors of trains are higher than buses.

I think you underestimate the stupidity of a lot of guests that would still find a way to get hurt or got forbid push the stroller with their precious kid off the edge. Couple that with the litigation crazy world of the USA and I wouldn't want to take that risk.

The other issue to consider is that you showed picture of trains/subways which are on tracks so you know exactly how far the car is going to be from the loading platform each and every time... but with an actual bus with a driver you would probably see many times when their would be a gap large enough to catch a visitor's show causing a fall which would again give lawyers another chance to sue.

 

[The Empress Lilly]

The buses don't drive to a timed schedule. That is, there is no timetable of 'Bus at 6:12, 6:24. 6:36...'. A minute delay, or not, does not throw a wrench in the system or creates problems of backup behind or transfer ahead of the bus. The choice then is merely one of speed and efficiency versus cost.

A bus system, by default, has been a lazy choice since the beginning that picks costs over passenger comfort and imagination. It is a bit telling that the half a century old monorail loads wheelchairs better than a 2017 bus and platform.

As an evil sidenote, I don't need WDW to make it even easier for many of the scooter brigade. Have veggies over that burger and you too can walk onto that bus.
(Disclaimer: wheelchairs and mobility issues are real and widespread and I'll happily wait while your holiday destination is made accessible to you)

 

[flynnibus]

I think you underestimate the stupidity of a lot of guests that would still find a way to get hurt or got forbid push the stroller with their precious kid off the edge. Couple that with the litigation crazy world of the USA and I wouldn't want to take that risk.

The other issue to consider is that you showed picture of trains/subways which are on tracks so you know exactly how far the car is going to be from the loading platform each and every time... but with an actual bus with a driver you would probably see many times when their would be a gap large enough to catch a visitor's show causing a fall which would again give lawyers another chance to sue.

The above are all examples of Government transportation systems. They are just as big of a target for liability claims as a Disney is. The model is out there and used all the time. It's not a hypothetical - it's common practice.

The gap issue is addressed by the train's door/floor.. not precise alignment. Sure it adds precision to where they must be to load... but that is another thing that can be addressed with aides when you have a fixed environment.

I think the biggest problem for Disney is cost and desire for flexibility. I mean, they could build the entire bus depot elevated if they wanted to.. but clearly they haven't.

 

[DisneyJoe]

Are all buses the same height? What if they brought in extra buses from Mears, DCL buses, or more of a luxury coach bus from the Four Seasons?

 

[Schda]

There is always the opportunity to have 'kneeling' buses. We have them in the Twin Cities for our bus system, there aren't steps, and if someone in a wheelchair needs to get on, they hit a button and three or so seconds later the buses' suspension lowers the whole front of the bus so that it sits level with the curb and the passenger loads on quickly.

 

[DisneyJoe]

There is always the opportunity to have 'kneeling' buses. We have them in the Twin Cities for our bus system, there aren't steps, and if someone in a wheelchair needs to get on, they hit a button and three or so seconds later the buses' suspension lowers the whole front of the bus so that it sits level with the curb and the passenger loads on quickly.

Disney buses do that now, they kneel the bus and flip a simple ramp out of the back door. This handles the case where there are no curbs.

 

[Schda]

Disney buses do that now, they kneel the bus and flip a simple ramp out of the back door. This handles the case where there are no curbs.

Cool, thanks for the info! It's been too long since I've been there (6+ years) and I'll admit my memory on all the details isn't quite there. Oh well 41 days to go and I can refresh it! (not that I'm counting)