State soliciting bids for I-Drive rail; closes at end of month; may go to Disney

[rwdavis2]

AMT claims that their system is significantly cheaper but have not built anything besides their small test track.

Could be. I was thinking more about heavy rail vs. what we're talking about here. Obviously scaling up from a small test track may be more difficult than they think. Although the elevated train in the illustration looks simple.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Could be. I was thinking more about heavy rail vs. what we're talking about here. Obviously scaling up from a small test track may be more difficult than they think. Although the elevated train in the illustration looks simple.

They claim to also offer savings over elevated heavy rail. Earlier in the thread I posted a Google StreetView image of the test track, which I have also seen in person. It is not as sleek as what the SketchUp rendering shows as the cost savings are supposed to come from placing more of the technology on the beam instead of on the train sets.

 

[ParkMan73]

It may just be me - but I don't see a reason why Disney would support this for guests.

As I see it, it would be a train that runs from MCO to somewhere at Disney - perhaps Disney Springs.
- Along the way, Disney guests have to stop at other places where they could be tempted to leave "The World".
- Disney guests would have to pay for the service
- Disney guests would then have to transfer at the "Disney Station" to another form of transit - probably a bus, but maybe a monorail someday.
- Once that the park, it would be relatively easy for Disney guests to leave WDW and go to another non-Disney location.
That sounds like a pain for Disney guests and not a particularly good deal for WDW.

I can see it having some benefit for local residents who work at Disney. But that would seem like a small number of folks who just happen to live along the route.

At the end of the day, this just doesn't seem to make sense for WDW.

 

[rwdavis2]

They claim to also offer savings over elevated heavy rail. Earlier in the thread I posted a Google StreetView image of the test track, which I have also seen in person. It is not as sleek as what the SketchUp rendering shows as the cost savings are supposed to come from placing more of the technology on the beam instead of on the train sets.

That's interesting. When I used to work on subway train control systems (early 90's) the brains were all in the cars: motors, brakes, doors, hvac, etc. Closet sized equipment racks in every car with all the wiring necessary to make it work.

 

[rwdavis2]

It may just be me - but I don't see a reason why Disney would support this for guests.

As I see it, it would be a train that runs from MCO to somewhere at Disney - perhaps Disney Springs.
- Along the way, Disney guests have to stop at other places where they could be tempted to leave "The World".
- Disney guests would have to pay for the service
- Disney guests would then have to transfer at the "Disney Station" to another form of transit - probably a bus, but maybe a monorail someday.
- Once that the park, it would be relatively easy for Disney guests to leave WDW and go to another non-Disney location.
That sounds like a pain for Disney guests and not a particularly good deal for WDW.....
.

But it would relieve WDW of paying for ME. Just add some busses at the WDW terminal. Might depend on where the intermediate stops are.

 

[fillerup]

But it would relieve WDW of paying for ME. Just add some busses at the WDW terminal. Might depend on where the intermediate stops are.

It would also relieve WDW of the benefits of ME, which they seem to value highly. I'll also mention that back during the discussion of rail to Tampa from MCO, with a Disney stop, WDW maintained throughout that period that they would continue ME no matter what. Only they could address whether that was true or not.

As far as intermediate stops - as currently proposed - the Disney run would stop at Lake Nona/Medical City, then continue south and west along Osceola Pkwy to WDW with 3 or 4 more additional stops.

 

[ParkMan73]

It would also relieve WDW of the benefits of ME, which they seem to value highly. I'll also mention that back during the discussion of rail to Tampa from MCO, with a Disney stop, WDW maintained throughout that period that they would continue ME no matter what. Only they could address whether that was true or not.

As far as intermediate stops - as currently proposed - the Disney run would stop at Lake Nona/Medical City, then continue south and west along Osceola Pkwy to WDW with 3 or 4 more additional stops.

Compared to what is being discussed, I like ME. After waiting in the ME line (I really dislike that part) you hop on a bus that is WDW themed and they play videos, etc. to get you excited about your stay. 30 minutes (or so) later, you're at your resort. Not so bad. In fact, years ago we'd hire a private towncar to take us to the resort, skipping Mears. Now, we just take ME.

It doesn't make any sense to me to go hop on a rail system that has to stop a bunch of places on then to get me to WDW where I hop on yet another bus. I suppose it could be OK if there was a direct MCO to WDW train with no stops and it was free. But, I see that only working if someone at WDW took my baggage to my resort for me.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Disney has a history of fighting projects that will go somewhere besides Walt Disney World. I think they only supported the last high speed rail project because they doubted it would happen or ever become a serious issue even if it ever did open.

 

[CDavid]

Disney has a history of fighting projects that will go somewhere besides Walt Disney World. I think they only supported the last high speed rail project because they doubted it would happen or ever become a serious issue even if it ever did open.

I wouldn't put much confidence in 99% of the currently proposed rail projects ever happening either. Aside from SunRail, don't hold your breath on anything.

 

[maxairmike]

Disney has a history of fighting projects that will go somewhere besides Walt Disney World. I think they only supported the last high speed rail project because they doubted it would happen or ever become a serious issue even if it ever did open.

I think if the Disney and I-Drive/OCCC routes remain separated Disney may be amenable to the idea, since it would still be quicker (generally) to take a cab/rental car/etc. to Universal than taking a train the 417 route and transferring to the I-Drive route to get to SW/Uni, so it shouldn't affect tourist decisions (in theory).

Of course, what Disney wants in this situation is generally the opposite of what would be beneficial to their workers and locals in general, so there's that to consider as well.

 

[JungleTrekFan]

This is not true. Every time I put gas in my car I pay a tax to the government to provide maintenance and construction of reads. I pay both a Federal tax and a state tax.

Yes gas is currently taxed, very little, by both the federal and state levels. The federal tax has not increase since 1993 and half of states have a gas tax that is over a decade old, which means that the federal and state tax does not even take into account the inflation that has happened in the last 10-20 years. Only 60% of this tax goes into funding the building of highways and bridges, the rest is not used in transportation at all. And the US still has a huge infrastructure problem, due to outdated bridges, highways, roads, etc. The American Society of Engineer gives the US a grade D+ for its transportation and says it needs a $1,957,000,000,000 investment by 2020 (http://www.infrastructurereportcard.org).

The small tax that we pay at the pump is not going to get us $1.9 trillion dollars.

 

[WDWDad13]

Does anyone think Disney will ever address or consider additional transportation options between all the parks and DTD (and maybe even the resorts too?) with things other than busses and boats?

 

[wdisney9000]

Does anyone think Disney will ever address or consider additional transportation options between all the parks and DTD (and maybe even the resorts too?) with things other than busses and boats?

You will be able to travel by tapping the correct brick in the wall behind the Leaky Cauldron, You may need to use Floo Powder. Beware of Knockturn Alley though...oh wait, wrong park

 

[lazyboy97o]

Does anyone think Disney will ever address or consider additional transportation options between all the parks and DTD (and maybe even the resorts too?) with things other than busses and boats?

Various plans and studies have been created over the years, but there has never been a strong enough desire to implement such a plan. Busses, for all of their lack of glamor, work and offer a level of flexibility that fixed rail systems lack. Disney has systems in place to monitor bus location and the MagicBands could be utilized to monitor the number of people waiting at a bus stop.

 

[orky8]

Here is what I wonder, and I'm sure Disney is already crunching the numbers on this - would it be in Disney's interest to make it easier to get to Universal to help stem people from foregoing staying at Disney Hotels. Here is why. Disney's strategy at WDW has always been a walled garden approach - capture people at the airport, bus them to a Disney hotel, and capture 100% of vacation spend. This strategy worked well when there wasn't much competition in Orlando or at least no MAJOR draws. However, as Universal becomes more enticing, there is a potential Achilles heal in the plan. Because if people want to spend even one day just to check out what this Potter thing is all about, they need a car. If they need a car, then they don't need Magical Express. And, if they have a car, it is a lot cheaper to stay offsite, so why not. The web begins to unravel and Disney loses its highest profit margins, which is its hotels -- not the parks.

One of the appeals of staying at a Disney resort is how trouble-free it is to visit all things Disney. But if you want to see other things, people are left with a serious choice about whether it is worth it to stay on property as the convenience factor is no longer there and sure costs a heck of a lot more. Disney doesn't care if it loses a park day or two to Universal -- afterall, the marginal income on a park day is only a couple dollars (the cost to add another extra day to the ticket), whereas the daily cost to operate the park is more or less fixed. I think Disney would be all too happy to see its guests go visit Universal IF it could still keep those guests in its hotels (and preferably also eating at Disney and buying the DDP).

At some point, I wonder if the breakdown of the walled garden means it becomes more profitable for Disney to make it easier to get elsewhere in Orlando, while using its hotels as a home base. I dunno, but food for thought.

 

[JungleTrekFan]

Does anyone think Disney will ever address or consider additional transportation options between all the parks and DTD (and maybe even the resorts too?) with things other than busses and boats?

I would think down the road they will, as other forms of transit are seen as more convenient and economically better choices. There is not a Huge demand for park to park transportation but an issue some have had is resort to resort transport for things like going to different restaurants or the spas at Saratoga and Grand, which currently has no direct offerings (except for the monorail resorts). This is due to the fact that it wouldn’t warrant a bus to transport those guests, it would need something smaller and more versatile.

It was discussed in the past by fans but i truly think that a PRT or GRT transit system working in hand with the bus network would do wonders in WDW. But this form of transit is still seen as in the testing stages and too new to be widely accepted in new construction. Maybe one day though.

Addition of bus lanes near disney springs will be a lovely addition for both disney and lynx busses who currently have to fight traffic to get to their destination, which during high traffic times is not enjoyable.

 

[JungleTrekFan]

At some point, I wonder if the breakdown of the walled garden means it becomes more profitable for Disney to make it easier to get elsewhere in Orlando, while using its hotels as a home base. I dunno, but food for thought.

That is a very interesting outlook, that i wish would be seen by Universal and Disney. If they worked together to boost orlando tourism they could both win. Having a transportation network that connected Disney, Universal, OCCC, and OIA would be a huge bonus for tourists and locals alike. Now they just need to connect to the Florida Mall and SunRail and it would be perfect. (The fact that the last SunRail station is 2 miles from the Florida Mall just baffles me, that is a huge revenue draw for locals & tourists for shopping as well as jobs and its being left two miles away from this new train station. SunRail just annoys me with its lack of thought and interest in actually building rails to major areas.)

 

[lazyboy97o]

Being part of the central Florida vacation experience was the strategy for Walt Disney World during its first 15 years or so. Disney knew they under built their hotel capacity and kept it under built, knowing that local businesses would fill the gap. Information on other nearby attractions, such as Cypress Gardens, was openly available at the Disney hotels. The strategy changes in 1984 when Eisner and Wells came to Disney. Sid Bass and his family, who played a large role in fending off attacks and bring the two in, believed Walt Disney World was severely underdeveloped and needed to be massively built out to properly utilize the shareholder's investment in Florida.

 

[fillerup]

(The fact that the last SunRail station is 2 miles from the Florida Mall just baffles me, that is a huge revenue draw for locals & tourists for shopping as well as jobs and its being left two miles away from this new train station. SunRail just annoys me with its lack of thought and interest in actually building rails to major areas.)

I'm sure I'm not telling you anything you don't know, but obviously, Sunrail only gets built if it follows the existing track.

But yes, I'm annoyed by many many things about this train. There are no doubt some useful parts of the route. But Deland to Poincianna? Really?

 

[JungleTrekFan]

I'm sure I'm not telling you anything you don't know, but obviously, Sunrail only gets built if it follows the existing track.

But yes, I'm annoyed by many many things about this train. There are no doubt some useful parts of the route. But Deland to Poincianna? Really?

Because using rails that where only designed for moving of goods directly translates to moving of people really well too

Idk how popular it will be but at least the norther parts (Church street to Altamonte) has access to a lot of people. We shall see. I will definitely be riding it at least once during the first two weeks in May when it will be free to see how it is.