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Sirwalterraleigh

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
UNCgolf said:
Well, I'd say the Force Awakens is worse than the Last Jedi... at least as far as screwing up Star Wars going forward. I'm not a fan of the Last Jedi, but most of its issues are a direct result of bad decisions (or one major bad decision) made in the Force Awakens.

Regardless, what about Indiana Jones? Temple of Doom is easily the worst of the original three films, even though it's still not a bad movie. I suppose that's not REALLY a trilogy, though, since they're essentially self-contained stories without any underlying plot threads.
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I think the 7 and 8 are both bad...but 7 didn’t have to end up this way. The danger of doing a reboot/intro is you leave the open ends up in the air.

Temple of doom occurred before raiders. So you can’t have the “middle chapter” occur first in the linear timeline. Think that was a big part of their problem.
 
Sirwalterraleigh

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
MisterPenguin said:
I really don't.

Are you telling me Disney didn't want good reviews for the Dumbo remake?

This is truly an unhinged conspiracy theory.
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Disney didn’t not make a big marketing push on dumbo...and it flopped. They did make a huge push on Aladdin and lion king. Malificent won’t do well because they’ve barely promoted it.

To the marvel point: the captain america movies had little promotion till civil war and they did well on merit. Black panther and captain marvel had the HELL marketed out of them and they made more. It works.
The_Jobu said:
That's very interesting. What makes you feel that way? A lot of the complaints I've read were that TLJ threw away many of the setups from TFA and that JJ is going to try and put them back.
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Those “setups” were dead ends anyway. They rebooted Star Wars and filled “holes” in what Disney perceived to be shortcomings...they tailored the “characters” to how they thought they’d be recieved, not the performance they could give.

Bringing Carrie Fisher back was a mistake...tailoring her into 3 of them was atrocious. Do these directors not understand dailies anymore?
 
UNCgolf

UNCgolf

Well-Known Member
Sirwalterraleigh said:
I think the 7 and 8 are both bad...but 7 didn’t have to end up this way. The danger of doing a reboot/intro is you leave the open ends up in the air.

Temple of doom occurred before raiders. So you can’t have the “middle chapter” occur first in the linear timeline. Think that was a big part of their problem.
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Force Awakens screwed everything up by destroying the Republic (in an incredibly silly way... I hated Starkiller Base and everything about how it worked -- firing across the galaxy etc.) and resetting everything back to a small rebellion against a pseudo-Empire. There were so many options and they went with the most boring one imaginable. The Last Jedi did a lot of things I wasn't a big fan of, but many of them were only on the table because of what happened in Force Awakens -- even the Luke Skywalker stuff was only possible because Force Awakens gave Rian Johnson a totally clean slate with regards to Luke. I was very excited to see TFA in theaters, and came out of that movie so underwhelmed/disappointed. @The_Jobu tagging you since I just noticed you asked why I felt that way.

I did like that Rian Johnson made Rey into a random nobody -- having her be the secret child of Luke, or Obi-Wan Kenobi, or anything like that would have been absolute nonsense. That's one thing I hope JJ Abrams doesn't walk back in any way.
 
Joesixtoe

Joesixtoe

Well-Known Member
UNCgolf said:
Force Awakens screwed everything up by destroying the Republic (in an incredibly silly way... I hated Starkiller Base and everything about how it worked -- firing across the galaxy etc.) and resetting everything back to a small rebellion against a pseudo-Empire. There were so many options and they went with the most boring one imaginable. The Last Jedi did a lot of things I wasn't a big fan of, but many of them were only on the table because of what happened in Force Awakens -- even the Luke Skywalker stuff was only possible because Force Awakens gave Rian Johnson a totally clean slate with regards to Luke. I was very excited to see TFA in theaters, and came out of that movie so underwhelmed/disappointed. @The_Jobu tagging you since I just noticed you asked why I felt that way.

I did like that Rian Johnson made Rey into a random nobody -- having her be the secret child of Luke, or Obi-Wan Kenobi, or anything like that would have been absolute nonsense. That's one thing I hope JJ Abrams doesn't walk back in any way.
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I don't know who greenlit star killer base, then turned around and did a movie on the death star in rouge one.. we went from a giant planet destroying many other planets, to a base the size of a moon able to destroy one planet. To me that felt unbalanced, and redundant. Plus I just disliked star killer base in the first place..
 
Kram Sacul

Kram Sacul

Well-Known Member
In the Parks
Yes
Joesixtoe said:
I don't know who greenlit star killer base, then turned around and did a movie on the death star in rouge one.. we went from a giant planet destroying many other planets, to a base the size of a moon able to destroy one planet. To me that felt unbalanced, and redundant. Plus I just disliked star killer base in the first place..
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Nah, you just don’t get Star Wars.
417229
 
Jones14

Jones14

Well-Known Member
The_Jobu said:
That's very interesting. What makes you feel that way? A lot of the complaints I've read were that TLJ threw away many of the setups from TFA and that JJ is going to try and put them back.
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I personally enjoyed both movies, but aside from the Canto Bight sequence (which was well-intended but poorly executed imo), I thought many of the critiques of Last Jedi were the result of poor setup by Force Awakens.

Didn’t like what they did with Luke? Well, he got sidelined to an island for a whole movie, so he either has to have been locked away against his will or he has to have some reason to have withdrawn from the Galaxy for almost twenty years. Snoke’s backstory? Why didn’t we get it in his introduction? Same with the Knights of Ren, and the New Republic, and so on.

Force Awakens is a lot of fun, but, like A New Hope, it doesn’t really set up a follow-up movie very well. Empire gets around it by having a time jump, but with everyone’s priority #1 being to find Luke ASAP, that wasn’t really a possibility here.
 
Hawkeye_2018

Hawkeye_2018

Well-Known Member
Sirwalterraleigh said:
Well made isn’t the criteria for a good movie...neither is first run gross

It’s the characters and narrative that make them resonate
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No. That's actually a preference. Blade Runner 2049 is one of the best looking films I've ever seen. I never totally understood the characters or story but the cinematography and score make it very re-watchable for me personally
 
britain

britain

Well-Known Member
Enough with the 'Temple of Doom' is a prequel stuff. Yes, I know it takes place before Raiders. But there are NO plot threads that require it to come first in order to better understand Raiders coming after.

And, to be honest, it doesn't even hold up to scrutiny. Indy doesn't believe in superstition at the beginning of Raiders, and yet in Temple of Doom he recites the incantation to make the stones catch fire. There's also the bit in Temple of Doom with the two swordsmen and Indy reaches for his gun like he did in Raiders but - surprise - this time he doesn't have it. That joke wouldn't work if Raiders didn't come first.
 
Sirwalterraleigh

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
britain said:
Enough with the 'Temple of Doom' is a prequel stuff. Yes, I know it takes place before Raiders. But there are NO plot threads that require it to come first in order to better understand Raiders coming after.

And, to be honest, it doesn't even hold up to scrutiny. Indy doesn't believe in superstition at the beginning of Raiders, and yet in Temple of Doom he recites the incantation to make the stones catch fire. There's also the bit in Temple of Doom with the two swordsmen and Indy reaches for his gun like he did in Raiders but - surprise - this time he doesn't have it. That joke wouldn't work if Raiders didn't come first.
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The problem is this: temple of doom is in fact a prequel. And that is part of its problem
 
The_Jobu

The_Jobu

Well-Known Member
Jones14 said:
I personally enjoyed both movies, but aside from the Canto Bight sequence (which was well-intended but poorly executed imo), I thought many of the critiques of Last Jedi were the result of poor setup by Force Awakens.

Didn’t like what they did with Luke? Well, he got sidelined to an island for a whole movie, so he either has to have been locked away against his will or he has to have some reason to have withdrawn from the Galaxy for almost twenty years. Snoke’s backstory? Why didn’t we get it in his introduction? Same with the Knights of Ren, and the New Republic, and so on.

Force Awakens is a lot of fun, but, like A New Hope, it doesn’t really set up a follow-up movie very well. Empire gets around it by having a time jump, but with everyone’s priority #1 being to find Luke ASAP, that wasn’t really a possibility here.
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That's very interesting. I hadn't heard many people with the opinion that TFA put TLJ in a difficult place. I like this thread, it's actually quite informative.
 

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