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SPOILERS: Captain America 4 (Brave New World) Feb 11, 2025 Premier
- Thread starter MisterPenguin
- Start date
Agent H
Well-Known Member
Well alright I’m on my way home from the movie I thought the story was good the actors are all really selling it IMO my main complaint was the way the leader looked his head should be taller not weird and bubbly and I’m calling it now Torres new suit will look like the comics falcon suit I was also really excited by the post credits scene secret wars really IS coming soon
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Stripes
Premium Member
Just saw the movie. I liked all the characters. Performances were decent (although something felt off about two hand to hand combat scenes).
Story was rather anti-climactic in large part because of how they handled the villain. The various parts of the film feel disconnected from one another, which is probably due to all the reshoots. Looking back you can tell this story is not the one they had planned to tell.
It’s difficult for me to give this movie a single score. There was stuff I liked, stuff that was okay, and stuff that was not good. So, I am going to break up my score.
Characters: A
Performances: A-/B+
Story: C
Villain: D
Entertainment value: B-
Not a bad film, but not great either. It exists somewhere between good and just okay. It felt too short. With a longer third act and a bigger direct conflict with the villain I would’ve given the film higher ratings. The third act is really where the film kind of fell apart for me.
And, of course, this all just my opinion.
In any event, I’m far more excited for Thunderbolts and Fantastic 4 than I ever was for this movie! In fact, the Thunderbolts trailer from the Super Bowl played before the film and as I was leaving the theater one girl said to her family that the Thunderbolts movie looks really good.
Story was rather anti-climactic in large part because of how they handled the villain. The various parts of the film feel disconnected from one another, which is probably due to all the reshoots. Looking back you can tell this story is not the one they had planned to tell.
It’s difficult for me to give this movie a single score. There was stuff I liked, stuff that was okay, and stuff that was not good. So, I am going to break up my score.
Characters: A
Performances: A-/B+
Story: C
Villain: D
Entertainment value: B-
Not a bad film, but not great either. It exists somewhere between good and just okay. It felt too short. With a longer third act and a bigger direct conflict with the villain I would’ve given the film higher ratings. The third act is really where the film kind of fell apart for me.
And, of course, this all just my opinion.
In any event, I’m far more excited for Thunderbolts and Fantastic 4 than I ever was for this movie! In fact, the Thunderbolts trailer from the Super Bowl played before the film and as I was leaving the theater one girl said to her family that the Thunderbolts movie looks really good.
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Disney Irish
Premium Member
Completely agree with you. I thought both Mackie’s and Ford’s performances were good and well executed. Overall the CGI was good even if minimal for this type of film. The action scenes I thought were good, but could have used a few more. And I like how Sam still struggles whether he can live up to being Cap and whether he should take the super soldier serum.
The end credit scene is obviously setting up Battleworld, something they’ve been hinting at and building toward in this Multiverse Saga. That along with the clear direction of Mutants I think future Phases will be very interesting.
Very middle-of-the-road. Mackie is good, Giancarlo just keeps knocking it out of the park whenever he’s cast as a villain. But the story… good grief. What was the point of the movie? It didn’t advance anything. The end credits scene did more than the 2+ hour movie did as far as that goes. It almost felt like a Disney+ series made into a movie. Not that Disney has done that before… 
Phroobar
Well-Known Member
Saw it last night. It was a good thriller but not a good Captain America movie. Cap movies always brought together other established heroes. They are kind of like mini Avengers movies. This one centered around discrediting President Ross with a bad guy no one heard of.
The Leader was taken from a post credits scene from the Incredible Hulk. His design remind me of one of the characters from The Suicide Squad (The Thinker). He would have been better as the main villain for the Hulk. The post credits scene with the Leader didn't make any sense since we know Kang isn't coming.
Mackie and Ford did fine jobs. Ford was allowed to be strong a character unlike in Dial Tone of Disney. The Red Hulk was well done and they gave him a reason for being there. The new Falcon was a good character that I hope they develop more. I liked Giancarlo Esposito as Sidewinder but I kept thinking all he wanted was Gorgu. Agent Bat-Seraph was a mixed bag. I know she was ex-Widow but when this 80lb woman starts bounding off the walls like Yoda taking out a bunch of soldiers, it was stupid.
I think this movie had it's moments and was fun but still it was the weakest of the Captain America movies.
The Leader was taken from a post credits scene from the Incredible Hulk. His design remind me of one of the characters from The Suicide Squad (The Thinker). He would have been better as the main villain for the Hulk. The post credits scene with the Leader didn't make any sense since we know Kang isn't coming.
Mackie and Ford did fine jobs. Ford was allowed to be strong a character unlike in Dial Tone of Disney. The Red Hulk was well done and they gave him a reason for being there. The new Falcon was a good character that I hope they develop more. I liked Giancarlo Esposito as Sidewinder but I kept thinking all he wanted was Gorgu. Agent Bat-Seraph was a mixed bag. I know she was ex-Widow but when this 80lb woman starts bounding off the walls like Yoda taking out a bunch of soldiers, it was stupid.
I think this movie had it's moments and was fun but still it was the weakest of the Captain America movies.
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Disney Irish
Premium Member
And which of the “established” heros were in Captain America: The First Avenger? Because other than a brief appearance by Fury none of the other Avengers were in that one. So no it’s not “all” Cap movies and not “always” since there have only been 3, only 2 had other “heros” in them.
I think people have forgotten and lumped together much of what was actually in Phase 1 with stuff that happened in Phases 2 and 3.
AdventureHasAName
Well-Known Member
So I saw the new Captain America movie last night. I wasn't really interested in it, but I've seen all the other Marvel movies and Harrison Ford is my all-time favorite actor, so I went. A big problem I had with this movie is a similar problem to the one I had with Falcon & The Winter Soldier. Why is Ross in prison at the end of the movie? I could understand if it was Ross saying that he needed to put himself in a secure facility until he learned how to control his rage issues (and not trigger his Hulk form), but (a) Sam specifically alludes to Ross pleading guilty or accepting his guilt, and (b) either way, putting him in the Raft is the dumbest idea possible because if he raged-out, he'd drown everyone else in the facility. It bothers me even more because they made this the point of a joke (Banner being submerged in a pressurized vehicle) in the first Avengers movie - it's like no one associated with this film even watched the first Avengers. Unless you're going to make an argument that Ross was guilty of some assault and battery (on Sam), or property destruction (of his own house, the White House), Ross didn't commit any crime in Hulk form. Plus he was in Hulk form; basically poisoned by The Leader into turning into a monster. Under MCU logic/rules, how is Ross responsible for this? It was essentially a terrorist attack on the President of the United States. How the hell does the President wind up in prison? It's not much different than Isiah Bradley's story IN THE SAME FREAKING FILM and Bradley is walking free at the end of the movie (justifiably). It's a similar problem I had to The Falcon and The Winter Soldier, where the Flag Smashers were terrorists (who were killing people) and John Walker (essentially an American special forces soldier) killed one of these terrorists less than a minute after that same terrorist was part of a group that murdered one of Walker's fellow American special forces soldiers. Walker is a hero in that TV show and the show (and Sam and Bucky) treated him as the bad guy. To make it worse, at the end of the TV show, Sam was defending (verbally) the violent terrorist organization; he's literally a terrorist-sympathizer (meanwhile, Walker is supposed to be scum).
I walked out of the film, just as I did at the conclusion of the TV show, thinking Sam's an incredibly ignorant person. Which is fine ... I actually think that could make for an interesting character (and story). But the problem is that it makes for an interesting D-list, fourth tier character, not an interesting A-list main character hero in your tent pole film.
There are other problems I had with the film. For example, it's absurd that Sam's (and his assistant's) suits can outrun fighter jets and missiles. And it is absurd that Sam's suit can do anything that could puncture a Hulk's skin (otherwise, you're just flat out saying the Red Hulk is not anywhere near on par with the Bruce Banner Hulk or even She-Hulk). The Falcon isn't Iron Man. But I can suspend disbelief on that stuff. The "Ross is the bad guy and clearly belongs in prison" stuff bothers me. It almost makes me think that the original script made more sense and the consistency of the film was destroyed by the re-shoots.
I put this movie on the same level is Quantumania or Thor Love and Thunder, which is to say one of the worst MCU movies, but a perfectly acceptable run-of-the-mill kids movie.
EDIT: I feel like if you gave me 24 hours, I could edit the script and come up with a version of this same movie that is better, introduced Marvel characters for later films (fleshing out the Serpent Society, particularly Diamondback as Sam's potential romantic interest), re-used older MCU characters, and answered a bunch of questions (Why is this Hulk red? Why does he generate heat? Why is this Hulk capable of breaking Sam's vibranium wings? etc), set up future films with a "Sam recruits a new Avenger" scene (I would have picked Wong). And if I was Marvel and knew this movie's ending, the obvious plot of the Thunderbolts film would have been for Bucky's new team of misfits to have to break Ross out of prison (with him eventually joining the team).
I walked out of the film, just as I did at the conclusion of the TV show, thinking Sam's an incredibly ignorant person. Which is fine ... I actually think that could make for an interesting character (and story). But the problem is that it makes for an interesting D-list, fourth tier character, not an interesting A-list main character hero in your tent pole film.
There are other problems I had with the film. For example, it's absurd that Sam's (and his assistant's) suits can outrun fighter jets and missiles. And it is absurd that Sam's suit can do anything that could puncture a Hulk's skin (otherwise, you're just flat out saying the Red Hulk is not anywhere near on par with the Bruce Banner Hulk or even She-Hulk). The Falcon isn't Iron Man. But I can suspend disbelief on that stuff. The "Ross is the bad guy and clearly belongs in prison" stuff bothers me. It almost makes me think that the original script made more sense and the consistency of the film was destroyed by the re-shoots.
I put this movie on the same level is Quantumania or Thor Love and Thunder, which is to say one of the worst MCU movies, but a perfectly acceptable run-of-the-mill kids movie.
EDIT: I feel like if you gave me 24 hours, I could edit the script and come up with a version of this same movie that is better, introduced Marvel characters for later films (fleshing out the Serpent Society, particularly Diamondback as Sam's potential romantic interest), re-used older MCU characters, and answered a bunch of questions (Why is this Hulk red? Why does he generate heat? Why is this Hulk capable of breaking Sam's vibranium wings? etc), set up future films with a "Sam recruits a new Avenger" scene (I would have picked Wong). And if I was Marvel and knew this movie's ending, the obvious plot of the Thunderbolts film would have been for Bucky's new team of misfits to have to break Ross out of prison (with him eventually joining the team).
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Disney Irish
Premium Member
Maybe this will help you -
Saw 4. Like it.
AdventureHasAName
Well-Known Member
I forgot to mention ...
This film is a much better plot if Ruth was not the "head of security" for the White House, but instead just a regular Secret Service Agent on Ross's detail. And instead of Japan being the focal point of the political story, Israel is the competitor country. You could reveal right before the Celestial military battle that Ruth is Sabra (yes, I know that was originally in the script) and that she is an ex-Black Widow that was freed in the Black Widow film and recruited by Israel and embedded in the White House to spy on Ross. Then during the military battle, it would be Sam trying to convince the United States to stand down and Sabra trying to convince the Israeli military. It would've made the plot more cohesive.
Yes, I know the real world politics involved, but I don't think anyone who would attend this movie in the theaters would have cared.
This film is a much better plot if Ruth was not the "head of security" for the White House, but instead just a regular Secret Service Agent on Ross's detail. And instead of Japan being the focal point of the political story, Israel is the competitor country. You could reveal right before the Celestial military battle that Ruth is Sabra (yes, I know that was originally in the script) and that she is an ex-Black Widow that was freed in the Black Widow film and recruited by Israel and embedded in the White House to spy on Ross. Then during the military battle, it would be Sam trying to convince the United States to stand down and Sabra trying to convince the Israeli military. It would've made the plot more cohesive.
Yes, I know the real world politics involved, but I don't think anyone who would attend this movie in the theaters would have cared.
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Apparently, reshoots were to deal with problematic elements of Serpent Society's superpowers, and so, reshoots were to replace all that with Giancarlo Esposito.
variety.com
‘Captain America: Brave New World’ Director Julius Onah Explains Those Cameos, Reveals What the Reshoots Replaced and Defends Harrison Ford: ‘He Was an Utter Professional’
'Captain America: Brave New World' director Julius Onah on those surprise cameos, introducing adamantium to the MCU and working with Harrison Ford.
variety.com
Agent H
Well-Known Member
So if ross never died in any version of the movie then who’s funeral was in the trailer?Apparently, reshoots were to deal with problematic elements of Serpent Society's superpowers, and so, reshoots were to replace all that with Giancarlo Esposito.
‘Captain America: Brave New World’ Director Julius Onah Explains Those Cameos, Reveals What the Reshoots Replaced and Defends Harrison Ford: ‘He Was an Utter Professional’
'Captain America: Brave New World' director Julius Onah on those surprise cameos, introducing adamantium to the MCU and working with Harrison Ford.
Apparently most of the Serpent Society.
Disney Irish
Premium Member
That is not why he was put in prison in the Raft. The movie setup that he has a hard time controlling his anger, something we’ve seen from other movies involving Ross. And because of that he is unpredictable and cannot be trusted not to Hulk out and hurt people. Unlike Banner who learned to control it, and in later movies leaned into it by becoming Professor Hulk all the time.
AdventureHasAName
Well-Known Member
Sam says "It wasn't nothing to see you take full responsibilities for your actions. Give up your office. Accept your sentence." What actions? He was poisoned by a supervillain and turned into a Hulk. How is that any different than Isiah Bradley being mind-controlled (by the same supervillain) and attempting to assassinate the President?
And of course, as I stated in another post, the Raft is the dumbest place possible to house Ross. All he has to do is Hulk-out once (an event that nobody has any control over happening - including the security staff and Ross) and everyone in the building drowns.
Disney Irish
Premium Member
I mean tearing up half of Washington DC isn't enough? Being poisoned isn't an excuse, he wasn't mind controlled. He took the pills of his own free will, which by the way was from a project that was off the books from before he was President. So add in kidnapping and extortion to the list of crimes. Not to mention that he was the reason why the Leader became the Leader, ie the whole reason for the revenge plot to begin with. So add in counts of criminal conspiracy and a few others.
So all of his crimes are basically BEFORE he was President and poisoned, adding in the endangerment and destruction of half of Washington DC and being a Hulk as a bonus, and you have your reasons why he was put into the Raft.
You're assume that they don't have some way to keep him in his cell in the Raft. We saw in the movie the Wakandian technology has the ability to pierce gamma radiated infused Hulk skin. So why do you think they don't have some similar technology to keep him in his cell. The whole idea of the Raft is to keep the most dangerous individuals with powers that can't be kept in regular prisons.