Splash Mountain re-theme announced

[Quinnmac000]

I posted in another thread but I think this needs to be posted here. Since I see a lot of people using Hattie MacDaniel and James Baskett as their defense or the fact they think PaTF is offensive and doesn't represent black people well and why Disney still should get rid of.
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In Disney's defense, James Baskett after Uncle Remus was quite controversial in which he upset the NAACP who was pushing for progress while he was staring in shows that didn't show African American in the best of light. (Look up Andy and Amos Show).

Additionally, his Oscar is controversial because it was begged by Disney for an award compared to Hattie MacDaniel who actually competed and won against her peers.

Hattie MacDaniel was actually cancelled by the black community with her success extremely limited because she lost all support fom the black community which also limited her appeal and ability to sell tickets. She later tried to put a minstrel show on tour which failed because it was a minstrel show.

The first African American man to actually win an Academy award for Best Actor (Sidney Poitier) in 1963 yelled at the academy during his speech for not giving roles to Black people real roles outside criminals and the help and his winning was due to just being a token.

As for Princess and the Frog, as a person of color, I believe this film was probably one of the best representation of what Black woman have to go through....Tiana had to work hard on her own, dealing with black men not family putting them down (the restaurant owner in the beginning), the disappointment of a dream deferred (her not getting the restaurant at first because too late) and how their personalities can come across too aggressive at times. She succeeds despite her challenges and finds someone.

Another positive rep within the film in my opinion is Tiana didn't have an absent father which is very prevalent in low income Black families.

I get the oh she needed a man to help her. But to be honest, Her man Naveen was broke because his playboy lifestyle and mommy/daddy cutting him off so he had nothing to do or provide her. Another argument was about Naveen not being black. My answer to that is

while I agree that it’s important to showcase positive black-black relationship, that take is still racist as it suggests blacks should only be with black people which in of itself racist. People should love and be able to love who they want as long as they are a legal consenting adult. Additionally, per dating stats from modern dating applications, Black women are the most open to dating people yet the least desired. Having Naveen who isn't black fall for Tiana helps change those beauty standards and what is thought as attractive.

The biggest argument on why Princess and the Frog was racist was due to the fact, they made the first black princess a frog majority of the movie and I remember some Caucasian people at the time were arguing the film shouldn't be called princess and the frog since she wasn't a princess to begin with. (These same people did get called out recently on facebook for their previous hot take which they stated they did't realize how rude that was at the time).

I do understand the arguments against the film being a sign of progress. Such as the voodoo piece which is also a very complex argument. Voodoo or Vondou originated in west africa as a mix of Christian culture and shamanism essentially. A lot of people were Christian by day, practicioners of voodoo by night. It was like some the African folklore that people are arguing about keeping with Splash Mountain. It was brought by slaves as something from home so the gods to here. Unfortunately, Hollywood and mainstream cultured perverted it from its original form for entertainment purposes as well as the religious entities who tie it to satanism out of ignorance. This lead to a lot saying Dr Facilier being a voodoo witch doctor as problematic mainly by the Christian/Conservative area when truthfully there still is a large population of Haitian Voodoo practitioners in New Orleans.

Lastly, while Brer Rabbit was told by African Americans....it may not solely be an African American tale. Turns out Native Americans were telling the same stories.

Cherokee Tales and Disney Films Explored

web.archive.org

 

[getdislove]

There are people who have created new accounts just to go on rants against the change. You're only being called out to serve their narratives. Pathetic.

Exactly. This is why I never expressed my concerns and even being black in the disney community to begin with. I’ve been silent on this my entire life.

 

[ImperfectPixie]

That's not what Disney is saying. In fact, they knew the movie (and elements of the ride drawn from the movie) were problematic for years. Now, they've decided to do something about it.

It's not giving in, but realizing that it was finally the time to make changes.

There is nothing racist about the Brer characters. At all. End of story. They originated in African folklore and have been in adaptations all over the world in 14 different languages.

The problematic parts were the live-action sections of film used to tie the folklore tales together. Nothing connected to those parts of the film are present in the attractions.

 

[disneygeek90]

So if those rides stem from movies with racial undertones, maybe a change needs to be made for those as well. or maybe People of Color should just start building their own theme parks so we don’t have to continue to convince this community that some of these things were never okay to portray to begin with.

Someone mentioned last night (I forget who, it's all a big blur) that Mickey shorts with insensitive material don't cause a need to "Cancel Mickey" because that wasn't the only short ever created. That isn't the only thing Mickey is known for. Characters and material change and grow over time, I think that's quite obvious. The difference with the SotS characters... is that they don't have a redemption arc. What they're known for is the only thing they're known for within the Disney IP.

An actor that chose to be part of an insensitive [insert minority group here] movie 20 years ago can likely recover if they continue acting and learn from their experiences, as well as taking more positive roles in the future. An actor that took part in an insensitive [insert minority group here] movie 20 years ago and then never acted again would be known for that one problematic moment in time.

Unfair or not, that's how I see the public viewing this differently. A case could be made that Disney could have corrected this long ago and done some sort of reboot, but that's not the route they've chosen to take.

 

[Bairstow]

That's because this is an absolute war on white people. It's about removing anything white people have ever done.

Oh no!
Those poor, poor white people!

 

[21stamps]

Adventureland toFrontierland was always the most "boyish" swath of MK to me.
Certainly these things can and have been be enjoyed by girls too.
Fantasyland by contrast was the side more geared towards girls.

Exactly! But not only “for boys”, for people like me (a woman) and my siblings, we loved that area too as children. For a while there, Disney got so “girly” all princess and almost segregated their shows into a boy category or girl category, with the “girl category” being dominant, when I was little it wasn’t like that, but then became that way.
For me, Disney isn’t all princesses.. it’s Swiss Family Robinson, Apple Dumpling Gang, Tom & Huck, The Mickey Mouse Club, Donald Duck, etc.

At least part of the park is a little more reminiscent of that. Generations today, boys and girls who aren’t princess-obsessed, can still enjoy it, and do.

 

[PeoplemoverTTA]

There is nothing racist about the Brer characters. At all. End of story. They originated in African folklore and have been in adaptations all over the world in 14 different languages.

The problematic parts were the live-action sections of film used to tie the folklore tales together. Nothing connected to those parts of the film are present in the attractions.

You know that I like and respect you. There are some really articulate explanations of the "troubling" parts of the movie that made their way into the ride (look specifically for a post by @Magic Feather ). When you read and approach this with an open mind, even if you don't like the decision, it at least becomes understandable why Disney felt the change should be made.

 

[Tom Morrow]

I do believe that Disney has known for a while that they would eventually have to change the ride. I don’t believe for a second that they’ve had this in the works for over a year. I think they saw an opportunity to strike that would get them the kind of PR they want, and they took it. I would bet that the petitions from a few weeks ago were pushed by Disney themselves, so they can go “look, we responded to criticism and are addressing it!” Even though prior to this, no one was really demanding an immediate change to Splash. It’s always been something kind of pushed out of sight rather than something anyone was raging about.

 

[bryanfze55]

The good ol' days weren't good for everybody.

Of course there are many things better about today’s world, one of which is the equal inclusion of minorities.

I still think there’s a difference between working towards real inclusion (which is good), and being an anxious, nihilistic little dweeb who wants to just troll and destroy good things (like Splash Mountain). I do believe the matter lack meaning in their own lives, yes.

And it won’t just stop at Splash. They’ll target Jungle Cruise, Hall of Presidents, American Adventure - all good things - simply because they have nothing better to do.

 

[PrincessNelly_NJ]

That's because this is an absolute war on white people. It's about removing anything white people have ever done.

If you had a child born today, their kids would be taught in school that the founding fathers were black and built the US... Hell they're already trying to push that Africa was a bastion civilization until evil whitey somehow "stole" their knowledge.

Spoiler: #wakandaisntreal

What are you talking about?

Sir this is a thread about a ride.

 

[SteamboatJoe]

It's funny because, when I was a teen girl visiting the parks in the early 90s, I gravitated toward all the "boy" stuff and to this day, find Fantasyland (and new Fantasyland) to be my least favorite part of the parks.

I was never big into princesses myself. I loved adventure, mystery, history, etc. so definitely Frontierland, Adventureland and Liberty Square, appealed to me more. (I could take or leave Tomorrowland).

Honest question, have you ever been fortunate enough to visit Disneyland? In my opinion, they do Fantasyland much better.

 

[PeoplemoverTTA]

That's because this is an absolute war on white people. It's about removing anything white people have ever done.

If you had a child born today, their kids would be taught in school that the founding fathers were black and built the US... Hell they're already trying to push that Africa was a bastion civilization until evil whitey somehow "stole" their knowledge.

Spoiler: #wakandaisntreal

That's it. I don't care who celebrates me leaving this site after 13 years, but I am done.

Get the hell out of here with this crap you racist POS.

 

[The March Hare]

I understand the outrage bc Splash is such an iconic ride, but i’m not surprised at how closed minded people are being over this and how they’re purposefully not even wanting to understand the bigger picture as to why this happened.

Let's be clear. This change has nothing to do with civil rights/liberties or human dignity.

This move is purely about the almighty dollar.

Don't think the monochromatic board rooms of The Walt Disney Company care about racial injustice. There's a business case tied to this move, pure and simple.

 

[getdislove]

What are you talking about?

Sir this is a thread about a ride.

true colors all the way out in the open for no reason

 

[lebeau]

The thing that gets me the most is that I’ve spent my entire life in support of this Company. I’ve always defended the company against the ignorant people who would try to trash it. I’ve spent so much time and money with Disney.

But that doesn’t matter to them. Customer loyalty means nothing to Modern Disney. They’ve stripped away everything I’ve loved and enjoyed about them. If it had just been Splash, and everything else about the company was going great, I could take it just fine. But their movies are becoming soulless. Epcot is becoming more soulless. And this all happens while they increase prices, up charge, and disregard fans.

I get that to some, Splash was a problem because it was guilty through association. And to that, I say, you should’ve made a new association. But now you’ll just bury it and pretend like it never happened. Bury me and pretend like I never was here. Okay. I get it. I’m not welcome here. I’ll just go some place else.

That's a tough lesson, I guess. No, the billion dollar corporate megalith has no loyalty to you or anyone else. If you leave, Disney won't miss you.

 

[getdislove]

Let's be clear. This change has nothing to do with civil rights/liberties or human dignity.

This move is purely about the almighty dollar.

Don't think the monochromatic board rooms of The Walt Disney Company care about racial injustice. There's a business case tied to this move, pure and simple.

Of course, that’s what most of these huge corporations are doing. They don’t want to lose their Black customers. Representation is still important though.

 

[orlandogal22]

Honest question, have you ever been fortunate enough to visit Disneyland? In my opinion, they do Fantasyland much better.

No. But I hope to one day. Alice in Wonderland and Snow White is calling my name.

In WDW's Fantasyland, I gravitated toward Peter Pan, Mr. Toad's, Snow White, etc. I love those sorts of rides. Plus, 20,000 Leagues! Miss it.

 

[Brer Oswald]

That's a tough lesson, I guess. No, the billion dollar corporate megalith has no loyalty to you or anyone else. If you leave, Disney won't miss you.

Good. I’ll just make a competitor company, while spending money at their competitor and forever recommending their competitor over them. It won’t make much of a difference, but oh well.

 

[ImperfectPixie]

Exactly! But not only “for boys”, for people like me (a woman) and my siblings, we loved that area too as children. For a while there, Disney got so “girly” all princess and almost segregated their shows into a boy category or girl category, with the “girl category” being dominant, when I was little it wasn’t like that, but then became that way.
For me, Disney isn’t all princesses.. it’s Swiss Family Robinson, Apple Dumpling Gang, Tom & Huck, The Mickey Mouse Club, Donald Duck, etc.

At least part of the park is a little more reminiscent of that. Generations today, boys and girls who aren’t princess-obsessed, can still enjoy it, and do.

I only have boys...that Fantasyland is so girl- and princess-centric now kills me because it severely limits what they want to do in that part of MK.

 

[lebeau]

Exactly. This is why I never expressed my concerns and even being black in the disney community to begin with. I’ve been silent on this my entire life.

I am very glad you found your voice here.