NateD1226
Well-Known Member
Just finished Mulan around 20 minutes ago and I gathered all my thoughts! Here’s my mini review that I posted in the Mulan thread:
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So, You Want to be an Imagineer Season 18 HYPE THREAD!
- Thread starter TheOriginalTiki
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Love the timing of getting to the 100th page of this right around the time the winner is crowned!
mickeyfan5534
Well-Known Member
1986: An Imagineering Competition - HYPE THREAD
"It was a dark hot day in September, and the clocks were striking thirteen. @mickeyfan5534, his neck stretched out far in an effort to escape the scorching heat, slipped quickly through the glass doors of the Imagineer forum, though not quickly enough to prevent a swirl of pixie dust from...
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DisneyManOne
Well-Known Member
I'm not really interested in seeing the Mulan remake. I'll likely wait until December, but even then, I feel I won't sit down to watch it. But, I have heard some things about this movie, and I feel the question must be asked (spoiler for important plot point):
Why does Mulan have superpowers?
JokersWild
Well-Known Member
mickeyfan5534
Well-Known Member
There's a really interesting Twitter thread on this line of thought
DisneyManOne
Well-Known Member
Wow. This is, like, Green Book levels of racism, in the sense that it wants to be seen as a progressive and respectful look towards ethnic culture, but is bogged down by a problematic, written-by-whites screenplay. And like Green Book, I'd say Mulan is well on its way to becoming loved by the critics...but loathed by the public.
Does anyone think Mulan may be the final nail in the coffin for the Disney remakes? Given the backlash against the inaccurate depiction of Chinese culture, Disney may have to do a lot of reconsidering...
Does anyone think Mulan may be the final nail in the coffin for the Disney remakes? Given the backlash against the inaccurate depiction of Chinese culture, Disney may have to do a lot of reconsidering...
mickeyfan5534
Well-Known Member
If Dumbo wasn't the final nail, this absolutely won't be.
It's more upsetting to me that this film is such a Catch-22. You want to support it so that better attempts happen, but you don't want to support the likes of the main actress and her comments on Hong Kong and the surface level attempt at diversity and inclusion. But if it's successful, that can send the message of "this way is good enough" but if it bombs, that sends the message of "people don't want diversity and inclusion".
At this point, if they're so high on the live-action remake money, why constantly ignore the perfect recipe that came from Cinderella. A faithful adaptation that lovingly recreates the fairytale but adds things to the tale that enhance the story and its themes but allow it to stand out from the other glut of adaptations, while also not being a soulless and emotionless shot for shot remake of the original. Thankfully, The Little Mermaid seems to be back to that Cinderella formula with the setting being moved to the Caribbean and Halle Bailey's casting as Ariel.
Honestly, so many of these remakes feel like they despise the original movies and want to "fix" them when you think about it. Beauty and the Beast cheapens Belle and Beast's relationship and how it develops, Mulan just completely changes the story for no reason, Aladdin tried to put Jasmine into a forced "girlboss" subplot that goes nowhere. The fact there is a way to do these remakes, do them well, and cash in on the nostalgia while still producing something worthy of standing on its own as a good movie rather than stand on the shoulders of giants to make it seem taller than it is. I will say it till I'm blue in the face: Cinderella is the best live action remake because it doesn't try to stand on the animated film's shoulders, it stands tall and proud as its own version of the story.
Pi on my Cake
Well-Known Member
- In the Parks
- Yes
See, that's the interesting things about these live action remakes. There is no real consensus as to what the right way to do them is. You point to Cinderella as the blue print of how to do them, but to me that one was my easily least favorite (other than Dumbo which I couldn't even sit through). I see it as having all the same issues as Beauty and the Beast of being a basic scene by scene retread with the only additions/changes making the characters and story worse. With the added downside of not having the fun to watch musical numbers which made BatB enjoyable enough to watch even if it wasn't good.
Meanwhile. you use Aladdin as an example of one of the worst, whereas I see that (alongside Jungle Book) as one of the better examples of feeling like a new take on the same story rather than just a worse retread. Will Smith especially manages to take the character and make it fully his own while still honoring Robin Williams.
Then you have things like Pete's Dragon which that do a radically new take and get a lot of hate for being a radically new take (I don't know how good that one is, never saw it. All I've heard is people complaining about it being so different).
So, it's sort of a darned if you do change stuff darned if you don't. Not to mention what changes some people hate and some people love.
I hope the era is ending. Or at the very least scaled back enough that it isn't the only things Disney does live action and the projects they do are done because they have a good angle to take the story and a passion for it, not because it is easy money.
mickeyfan5534
Well-Known Member
Cinderella most definitely is a scene by scene retelling of the story but it's a genuine and loving retelling. There's a clear respect for the fairytale and the animated version but it still holds up on its own as its own piece. There's a lovely aspect of magical realism in the film's design and script that isn't present in other versions of the story. I can agree that Cinderella's character feels a bit neutered from how she is in the animated movie but 2015's Ella is one of the most likable remake protagonists, Kit might be one of the best takes on the Prince Charming character with how adorkable he gets, and Lady Tremaine is made all the more sympathetic but just as despicable because of it.
It's not a perfect movie, far from it, but it's an adaptation that stands on its own just as much as it stands as a remake.
Pi on my Cake
Well-Known Member
- In the Parks
- Yes
Go for it! I want to give it another try because I love Burton's aesthetics. It just didn't connect with me and felt kinda hollow. But I could've also just been in a bad mood that day or something.
I'll have to give Cinderella another try. I only saw it the once in theaters. I just remembered disliking all the things you mention liking. Like Kit's Prince Charming or Ella. And Lady Tremaine being sympathetic undercuts her defining character trait in my mind.
BUT these are all just opinions.
And that was my whole point that opinions on what makes these live action remakes work/fail varies so wildly. The only real consistent thing is that they make a ton of money and people complain about them. But the fact that no one can agree what ones are good and what ones are bad speaks to how weird a problem it is. Even BatB has some die hard supporters. Even just between me, you, and Nate we got three very different opinions of what ones work best/worst despite generally having similar opinions on Disney stuff.
NateD1226
Well-Known Member
There was definitely a reason. People in China HATED the animated Mulan. They felt like Disney was picking out the stereotypes of Chinese people and were just trying to profit off their culture. That is why the live action movie was a lot more mature with more depth and culture references like the phoenix, the whole Qi idea, and a few more. I would say that this is a huge step-up from the animated version. The remake feels a lot more true to Chinese culture and the original story of Mulan from the beginning of Asia. The animated version was more a stereotypical musical that was really only liked in the US. Anyway, the new Mulan opens this friday in China and I'm very curious to see how it does and how the audience reacts to it.
mickeyfan5534
Well-Known Member
And that's what makes this side of the forums wonderful and why I stick to this side of them tbh. This conversation on any other part of the forums would go down an awful rabbit hole.
DisneyManOne
Well-Known Member
The thing is, as mickeyfan related, Chinese-Americans are blasting this film for appropriating the Chinese culture, and completely misrepresenting what the symbols stands for (i;e the "qi" thing and the phoenix thing). Time will tell if people in China will hate it just as much.
NateD1226
Well-Known Member
Very true. I just love Dumbo because of the Tim Burton style and casting. Yes, there were some story problems and some of the scenes were unnecessary but to me it was nice movie.
100% agree with you on the 2nd statement. It feels like Disney is just trying to get all the money they can from people's childhood. For instance, they have around 15 live action remakes in the work ranging from sequels to remakes to brand new stories. It is all just a big mess. Some work and some don't. One that worked for me was Mary Poppins Returns. It was not that widely talked about but is one of my favorites. The story is simple, it grasped the charm from the first movie, the music is fantasic, and it's overall charming. It wasn't trying to fix mistakes from the first movie like BATB or ruin anything from the first one. I actually know people who said that MPR was better than the original. Overall, Disney needs to tone down the remakes and focus on what they do best... animation.
NateD1226
Well-Known Member
Very true. I think the idea of trying to represent Chinese culture is there but not as strong as what it could've been.
mickeyfan5534
Well-Known Member
I'd even say that the idea is strong but the execution is thoroughly botched
Pete's Dragon is objectively the best remake to me since I really don't care about the original at all and I think they came up with a really compelling new take on it. That's what I think the direction SHOULD be with live action remakes in general and why stuff like Lion King and Beauty and the Beast never should have happened. Simply put, you can't improve perfection. Pete's Dragon was never even close to being perfect. The Jungle Book SHOULD work for me more than it does. To me the thing that kills that movie is the pacing. I really dislike movies where the narrator narrates the whole story, and that's an unfortunate side effect of TJB. I also really don't think the kid actor playing Mowgli holds up on a rewatch. Most of his line delivery is really stilted. It also bothers me that the dynamic with Baloo was way less " freewheeling father figure" and more "immature man-child best friend".
What's everyone's thoughts on the live action sequels...specifically Christopher Robin and Mary Poppins Returns. If we include Returns in the "live action remake"category, I think it ABSOLUTELY runs away as the best movie of the bunch. Returns is generally one of my favorite Disney movies of the decade. Fantastic soundtrack that stands on its own, Emily Blunt's performance is absolutely flawless, Lin Manuel Miranda is freaking adorable. There's so much to love about Returns for me. Trip a Little Light Fantastic and Nowhere To Go But Up have entered the pantheon as some of my all time favorite Disney songs. The only flaw in that movie is that Collin Firth's banker villain isn't really needed, but so many people jump all over the movie for that one element and ignore everything it does well.
Christopher Robin I don't have nearly as much passion for as Returns, but I still think it stands on its own really freaking well. It has a slow start to be sure, but some of my favorite Jim Cummings line deliveries of his Pooh characters come from that movie.
What's everyone's thoughts on the live action sequels...specifically Christopher Robin and Mary Poppins Returns. If we include Returns in the "live action remake"category, I think it ABSOLUTELY runs away as the best movie of the bunch. Returns is generally one of my favorite Disney movies of the decade. Fantastic soundtrack that stands on its own, Emily Blunt's performance is absolutely flawless, Lin Manuel Miranda is freaking adorable. There's so much to love about Returns for me. Trip a Little Light Fantastic and Nowhere To Go But Up have entered the pantheon as some of my all time favorite Disney songs. The only flaw in that movie is that Collin Firth's banker villain isn't really needed, but so many people jump all over the movie for that one element and ignore everything it does well.
Christopher Robin I don't have nearly as much passion for as Returns, but I still think it stands on its own really freaking well. It has a slow start to be sure, but some of my favorite Jim Cummings line deliveries of his Pooh characters come from that movie.
mickeyfan5534
Well-Known Member
Mary Poppins Returns deserved so much better than it got. It's a wonderful expansion to the original, Emily Blunt is flawless (I don't think she ever hasn't been flawless though), the music is absolutely worthy of holding up to the amazing soundtrack of the original, I can go on here. Colin Firth, yeah he's wasted (although he and the other bakers do provide for some great Neo-Marxist readings of the film for anyone into rhetorical criticism) but overall, the one thing that drags down the rest of the film and it still stays afloat.
Christopher Robin is in a league of its own imo. It's kind of a perfect take on Pooh. As I've grown up, I've found there's something of a bittersweet part of The Hundred Acre Wood that people don't discuss that this captures perfectly. Growing up is sad. You can either let all childish things go or you can hold them close and this is a movie that proves you can still be an adult without shunning beloved parts of your childhood.