Should we Buy?

[SD449]

Hi All

We are from the UK and are looking forward to our 3rd trip in 3 years and can't see a future where we don't visit WDW every year going forward, but would like to check out DL Cali and DisneySea sometime in the future.

We normally go for 2 weeks, but this year are splitting a stay with Uni so staying 9 nights AKL.

Also we have always booked with the free dining offer and this is making the comparison harder.

From my research I would need circa 150 Points to stay 9 nights at SSR or AKL in Oct/Nov at a cost of $13,000 resale.

So I have quite a few questions if I may;

1. Would it save us money based on us normally getting "Free" dining?
2. I have read a lot about 11th & 7th Month booking, what is this?
3. SSR is about $80 per point resale, are new still available? How much are these?
4. What are the draw backs of buying resale?
5. Do I have enough time to buy resale and visit in November 2014?
6. How important is a home resort?

Thank you for all your help in advance, Scott

 

[Bparso87]

SSR is not available but can still get through Disney just have to go on a wait list. It is up to you if it could be a deal olive being able to stay in deluxe resorts but sucks not to get free dining and other discounts but the discounts you can get through with ap and table in wonderland help. Buying reveal will. It be an issue for you if u don't stay anywhere other then Disney I like to buy through Disney though

 

[GoofGoof]

Hi All

We are from the UK and are looking forward to our 3rd trip in 3 years and can't see a future where we don't visit WDW every year going forward, but would like to check out DL Cali and DisneySea sometime in the future.

We normally go for 2 weeks, but this year are splitting a stay with Uni so staying 9 nights AKL.

Also we have always booked with the free dining offer and this is making the comparison harder.

From my research I would need circa 150 Points to stay 9 nights at SSR or AKL in Oct/Nov at a cost of $13,000 resale.

So I have quite a few questions if I may;

1. Would it save us money based on us normally getting "Free" dining?
2. I have read a lot about 11th & 7th Month booking, what is this?
3. SSR is about $80 per point resale, are new still available? How much are these?
4. What are the draw backs of buying resale?
5. Do I have enough time to buy resale and visit in November 2014?
6. How important is a home resort?

Thank you for all your help in advance, Scott

1. If you want to factor in free dining you just need to take the rack rate and back out the cost of DDP to do the math. You didn't say how many people you travel with, but you can figure out the cost to buy DDP for 9 nights for your party and subtract that from the rack rate for 9 nights. Then compare that to the cost of 150 points. So your dues are $900 a year (150 points at roughly $6) compared to a rack rate for 9 nights for the cheapest room of $4,000 less the $1,000 you save from not buying DDP. So DVC saves you roughly $2,100 per trip. At that rate it will take you 7 years to pass the breakeven point. This assumes that rates are constant. Both dues and cash rooms go up each year so the savings actually grows. If you want to finance DVC you need to factor interest expense in. If not you can assume some basic rate of return that you would have gotten if you left the $13,000 in the bank. Best to setup a spreadsheet and do the math that way.
2. You can book your home resort at 11 months in advance and another resort that isn't your home at 7 months.
3. New are still available. SSR is $130 per point direct from Disney. Here's a link to all of the direct from Disney prices: http://www.dvcnews.com/index.php/dvc-program/financial/pricing-a-promotions
4. The only drawback to buying resale is you cannot trade in your points for the Disney collection or adventures by Disney vacations. Basically, you can't trade in points for a Disney cruise or a stay at a Disney hotel that doesn't have DVC or an adventure trip like a real African Safari or Great Wall of China. With 150 points those trade ins aren't a great option anyway. You can get the cheapest room on the ship for a 3 night cruise for 2 people with 150 points. Here's a link to the trade in points http://www.dvcnews.com/index.php/dvc-program-85142/points-charts-29677/non-dvc-destinations-9332. What you can do with resale is trade in for any DVC resort or trade in through RCI. RCI gets you pretty much anywhere in the world at another timeshare.
5. The resale process takes about 30 to 60 days. Disney has a full 30 days to exercise their right of first refusal, that takes the most time. If you bought today you should be able to make a reservation by the end of Sept. Not sure if that leaves you enough time to book or if there would be rooms available.
6. Home resort gets you the 11 month booking window. Important if you want to stay at a specific place. Trading in at 7 months usually isn't a problem unless you want a popular resort or a popular time. Home resort also dictates the amount of fees you pay. They vary by resort. It is also a factor in the resale price should you need to get out.

 

[SD449]

1. If you want to factor in free dining you just need to take the rack rate and back out the cost of DDP to do the math. You didn't say how many people you travel with, but you can figure out the cost to buy DDP for 9 nights for your party and subtract that from the rack rate for 9 nights. Then compare that to the cost of 150 points. So your dues are $900 a year (150 points at roughly $6) compared to a rack rate for 9 nights for the cheapest room of $4,000 less the $1,000 you save from not buying DDP. So DVC saves you roughly $2,100 per trip. At that rate it will take you 7 years to pass the breakeven point. This assumes that rates are constant. Both dues and cash rooms go up each year so the savings actually grows. If you want to finance DVC you need to factor interest expense in. If not you can assume some basic rate of return that you would have gotten if you left the $13,000 in the bank. Best to setup a spreadsheet and do the math that way.
2. You can book your home resort at 11 months in advance and another resort that isn't your home at 7 months.
3. New are still available. SSR is $130 per point direct from Disney. Here's a link to all of the direct from Disney prices: http://www.dvcnews.com/index.php/dvc-program/financial/pricing-a-promotions
4. The only drawback to buying resale is you cannot trade in your points for the Disney collection or adventures by Disney vacations. Basically, you can't trade in points for a Disney cruise or a stay at a Disney hotel that doesn't have DVC or an adventure trip like a real African Safari or Great Wall of China. With 150 points those trade ins aren't an option anyway. You might get 2 nights on a cruise ship for that. What you can do with resale is trade in for any DVC resort or trade in through RCI. RCI gets you pretty much anywhere in the world at another timeshare.
5. The resale process takes about 30 to 60 days. Disney has a full 30 days to exercise their right of first refusal, that takes the most time. If you bought today you should be able to make a reservation by the end of Sept. Not sure if that leaves you enough time to book or if there would be rooms available.
6. Home resort gets you the 11 month booking window. Important if you want to stay at a specific place. Trading in at 7 months usually isn't a problem unless you want a popular resort or a popular time. Home resort also dictates the amount of fees you pay. They vary by resort. It is also a factor in the resale price should you need to get out.

Thank you @GoofGoof for a very detailed reply.

1. Sorry, normally it is my Wife, DD and myself

2. Thank you that clears that up

3. So a $50 per point saving, that is pretty impressive

4. From the sounds of it unless I buy a lot more points resale is the way to go

5. Sounds possible, but my weakness being availability. Currently have ADRs from 11/11-19/11 is this a busy time for AKL or SSR? How do you rate my chances?

6. That give me some thinking to do

Once again thank you for your help it is much appreciated

 

[SD449]

I assume there would be no savings on Park Tickets as they would be the same price on both options

 

[GoofGoof]

I assume there would be no savings on Park Tickets as they would be the same price on both options

DVC has run discount AP programs for a little while now. They aren't guaranteed, but they have for a while. No discounts on single day or multi-day tickets. You also get 10% off merchandise in certain Disney owned stores and some restaurants offer DVC discounts as well. You can also buy a Tables in Wonderland membership card for $100 for the year which gets you 20% off meals at most sit down restaurants (including alcohol). For some people it works out a lot better than DDP.

 

[Bparso87]

DVC has run discount AP programs for a little while now. They aren't guaranteed, but they have for a while. No discounts on single day or multi-day tickets. You also get 10% off merchandise in certain Disney owned stores and some restaurants offer DVC discounts as well. You can also buy a Tables in Wonderland membership card for $100 for the year which gets you 20% off meals at most sit down restaurants (including alcohol). For some people it works out a lot better than DDP.

Don't forget about the gratuity on table in wonderland great savings but it is basically like not tipping. It is still better then the dinning plan and if you buy asp and make your trips 11 months apart you can use your ap and TIW card twice

 

[GoofGoof]

Thank you @GoofGoof for a very detailed reply.

1. Sorry, normally it is my Wife, DD and myself

2. Thank you that clears that up

3. So a $50 per point saving, that is pretty impressive

4. From the sounds of it unless I buy a lot more points resale is the way to go

5. Sounds possible, but my weakness being availability. Currently have ADRs from 11/11-19/11 is this a busy time for AKL or SSR? How do you rate my chances?

6. That give me some thinking to do

Once again thank you for your help it is much appreciated

AK is a little easier to get at 7 months since it's pretty big. It's hard to say if they would have the room you would want. You would also need to find a resale that still has 2014 points available. Another factor is that at 60 days out DVC can transfer unbooked room inventory to Disney reservations to be offered as cash rooms. You could consider renting the points for this year. You can rent points for around $14 so around $2,100 but you wouldn't get free dining.

 

[SD449]

If I am reading @GoofGoof link correctly all the Tokyo Hotels are in the Disney Collection and therefore I cannot use my resale points to book.

I have crunched the numbers and so far it seems I am saving after 10 years, that is I buy the DDP each year, I also had to factor my DD being an "Adult" at 10yo which slowed down the savings (she's 4yo currently) but from what people are saying the TIW card sounds interesting.

How obsess should I be about my initial points total? Can I add additional resale points to my initial resale purchase or would I need to buy additional point from disney correct? I am just thinking long term (I'll hopefully be 69 when I have to give it back) and maybe by then I will want 2x short 7night breaks or book larger or more deluxe resorts.

 

[Bparso87]

If I am reading @GoofGoof link correctly all the Tokyo Hotels are in the Disney Collection and therefore I cannot use my resale points to book.

I have crunched the numbers and so far it seems I am saving after 10 years, that is I buy the DDP each year, I also had to factor my DD being an "Adult" at 10yo which slowed down the savings (she's 4yo currently) but from what people are saying the TIW card sounds interesting.

How obsess should I be about my initial points total? Can I add additional resale points to my initial resale purchase or would I need to buy additional point from disney correct? I am just thinking long term (I'll hopefully be 69 when I have to give it back) and maybe by then I will want 2x short 7night breaks or book larger or more deluxe resorts.

You can add on as many points as you want I currently have 3 contracts for 200 total points.

 

[SD449]

Thank You @Bparso87 can you use all 3 contract and point in the same booking? Do they have to be the same resort or do you just book at the 7month mark?

 

[Bparso87]

Thank You @Bparso87 can you use all 3 contract and point in the same booking? Do they have to be the same resort or do you just book at the 7month mark?

Yes you just have to pay for certain days . The only things is I would make sure all are the same resort because if not you kinda loose out on the 11 month window unless you have enough points to cover it with the contract for that resort.

 

[GoofGoof]

If I am reading @GoofGoof link correctly all the Tokyo Hotels are in the Disney Collection and therefore I cannot use my resale points to book.

I have crunched the numbers and so far it seems I am saving after 10 years, that is I buy the DDP each year, I also had to factor my DD being an "Adult" at 10yo which slowed down the savings (she's 4yo currently) but from what people are saying the TIW card sounds interesting.

How obsess should I be about my initial points total? Can I add additional resale points to my initial resale purchase or would I need to buy additional point from disney correct? I am just thinking long term (I'll hopefully be 69 when I have to give it back) and maybe by then I will want 2x short 7night breaks or book larger or more deluxe resorts.

It's much easier to add points than reduce them. The only way I know of to go from 200 down to 150 is to sell your 200 point contract and buy one for 150. That's a drag. Adding on is easy. Generally the lower point total contracts go for a little more per point resale than a larger contract. There are less of them and less of an upfront commitment. Supply and demand.

Yep, you can't trade in resale points for Tokyo.

 

[LuvtheGoof]

Thank you @GoofGoof for a very detailed reply.

5. Sounds possible, but my weakness being availability. Currently have ADRs from 11/11-19/11 is this a busy time for AKL or SSR? How do you rate my chances?

Once again thank you for your help it is much appreciated

I checked the availability for both SSR and AKV, and the only room available for your entire stay is a 1 bdr at SSR. At that time of year, they go for 206 points per week.

 

[slappy magoo]

It's much easier to add points than reduce them. The only way I know of to go from 200 down to 150 is to sell your 200 point contract and buy one for 150. That's a drag. Adding on is easy. Generally the lower point total contracts go for a little more per point resale than a larger contract. There are less of them and less of an upfront commitment. Supply and demand.

Yep, you can't trade in resale points for Tokyo.

When it comes to selling your points or buying resale, each contract is all-or-nothing. As you specified, a seller can't take a contract for 200 points and just sell off 50 of those points. But if you're buying resale, you could choose to buy a contract for 100 points and another contract for 50 (assuming you can find sellers with those amounts), use them together (especially easy if they share the same use year), then sell off either contract if you realize you don't need that many points. The only negative to this approach is having to pay more closing fees, unless you can negotiate/haggle a price that would essentially cover those fees (no guarantees).

 

[dreamfinder]

So I have quite a few questions if I may;

1. Would it save us money based on us normally getting "Free" dining?
2. I have read a lot about 11th & 7th Month booking, what is this?
3. SSR is about $80 per point resale, are new still available? How much are these?
4. What are the draw backs of buying resale?
5. Do I have enough time to buy resale and visit in November 2014?
6. How important is a home resort?

Thank you for all your help in advance, Scott

1. Would you pay for the DDP normally if it wasn't free? And alternatively, if you stay in a DVC unit and have at least a kitchenette (studio) or a full kitchen (1br or larger), would you still eat "out" for every meal, or would you consider buying groceries and doing at least some meals in the room? If you would still travel to WDW without free dining, then it really shouldn't be used in any financial calculations. Remember that free dining, room discount, even the DVC AP pricing is subject to change and may or may not be offered at any time. Expect to pay more and be plesantly surprised if you pay less. This does mean that your breakeven may take an extra year or two, but plan on what you would actually be comfortable spending.
2 & 6. Your home resort gets you that 11 month booking window, so a 4 month jump on other guests. Some times of year, it may not be a big deal. But if you say want to stay at BW or BC during F&W, then you really need to own there to have a shot at it. If you are traveling during slower periods (remember that DVC slower != normal slower) or don't care much about your resort/room type then the 7 month may not be as big an issue. Most people would suggest booking at your home resort at 11 months, and then waitlist at 7 month. This just means that you are happy where ever you buy as you may end up having to stay there.
3. DVC will actually still sell you point at pretty much any resort, it just involves you being on the waitlist for them. Then if someone else tries to buys the points via the resale market DVC exercies ROFR and buys the points, to mark back up and sell to you. Someone already linked to the current list prices.
4. As stated, they don't have full trade rights. You can still book DVC stays identically to those who bought direct.
5. Hard to say. If you signed today on an offer, add on the 30 days for ROFR period, then add in additional time to close. I imagine most of the resellers would work to speed that up if they were properly motivated, but even so you would still only have maybe 2 months during which you could make the booking. Not impossible, but I wouldn't want to play with my vacation like that.

When it comes to selling your points or buying resale, each contract is all-or-nothing. As you specified, a seller can't take a contract for 200 points and just sell off 50 of those points. But if you're buying resale, you could choose to buy a contract for 100 points and another contract for 50 (assuming you can find sellers with those amounts), use them together (especially easy if they share the same use year), then sell off either contract if you realize you don't need that many points. The only negative to this approach is having to pay more closing fees, unless you can negotiate/haggle a price that would essentially cover those fees (no guarantees).

To elaborate further, if you wanted say 200 points direct from DVC, they will work with you to split it up into multiple smaller contracts for no extra charge. Some people have done this so they could sell off points when the kids moved out and they could change from a 2br to a studio, or to bequeath equal number of points to each kid so no one gets more of the contract. But buying resale you get what you see.