Shanghai Disneyland closes due to outbreak of a pneumonia-like illness in China

[Soleurs]

China is getting another Disneyland in the not so far future. Supposedly in Beijing. As for Japan, I don't think OLC is interested in a third park in Tokyo, especially since they don't have enough land to build in it within the existing resort, and there's been no rumors about another resort in a different region of Japan. Australia is a curious case. Disney wanted to build an entrainment complex a few years back but plans fell through. Beyond that, there's been no indication that Disney is interested in building a resort down under.

Tokyo absolutely will see a third park, but it’ll be after the resort’s 50th anniversary bare minimum. The leaked announcement for DisneySky that got thrown around a few years ago was very real.

There’s actually a lot of land OLC can work with. They could tear out Ikspiari since it’s a massive money hole, even take out the Ambassador (least occupied hotel) and the theater. Plus the land with the Urayasu Sports Park is owned by OLC, they have the right to evict the city with a few years notice and build a third park there. Plenty of the warehouses in the immediate Maihama area are also first-right-of-refusal to OLC as well if I remember correctly, but that part might’ve just been a rumor.

 

[Haymarket]

Tokyo absolutely will see a third park, but it’ll be after the resort’s 50th anniversary bare minimum. The leaked announcement for DisneySky that got thrown around a few years ago was very real.

There’s actually a lot of land OLC can work with. They could tear out Ikspiari since it’s a massive money hole, even take out the Ambassador (least occupied hotel) and the theater. Plus the land with the Urayasu Sports Park is owned by OLC, they have the right to evict the city with a few years notice and build a third park there. Plenty of the warehouses in the immediate Maihama area are also first-right-of-refusal to OLC as well if I remember correctly, but that part might’ve just been a rumor.

If they don't go with the DisneySky concept, what kind of park do you think they might build for a third park? Could they possibly build it around Osaka?

 

[GiveMeTheMusic]

Fair questions. The numbers available vary depending on the sources but annual visitors are in the neighborhood of 11 million with an estimated 50% not being from the immediate Shanghai area, however, numbers or statistics for visitors to SD from outside of China are another issue. All in all, not a profit maker.

You miss the point. SDL wasn't built for international tourists, it was never intended to be an "international beacon." It's aimed squarely at the Chinese. Just like TDR has been a massive success with very little foreign tourism --- it's for the Japanese. International tourism never played into the calculus for SDL, nor does it need to. Your intense distaste for China in general gets in the way of observing basic facts.

HKDL on the other hand, had come to rely on Southeast Asian and Australian tourists making up a chunk of visitors, but endearing itself to locals since COVID has worked well for them and they're becoming a beloved local park much later than they intended.

 

[mharrington]

You miss the point. SDL wasn't built for international tourists, it was never intended to be an "international beacon." It's aimed squarely at the Chinese. Just like TDR has been a massive success with very little foreign tourism --- it's for the Japanese. International tourism never played into the calculus for SDL, nor does it need to. Your intense distaste for China in general gets in the way of observing basic facts.

HKDL on the other hand, had come to rely on Southeast Asian and Australian tourists making up a chunk of visitors, but endearing itself to locals since COVID has worked well for them and they're becoming a beloved local park much later than they intended.

Out of curiosity, how much does Disneyland in California benefit from international tourists as opposed to locals? And how much does Disneyland Paris benefit from locals as opposed to tourists?

 

[Haymarket]

Out of curiosity, how much does Disneyland in California benefit from international tourists as opposed to locals? And how much does Disneyland Paris benefit from locals as opposed to tourists?

Also, how often does the average American and French person visit theme parks? I know the frequency is much higher in Japan and China, as theme parks aren't stigmatized in East Asia as in the West, France in particular. Let's get those figures.

Also, let's index that to the total number of foreign visitors to America and France; some economies are more dependent on foreign tourism than others.

I found this from 2017:

Walt Disney Co.’s ambitious $5.5 billion Shanghai theme park is close to breaking even after its first full year of operations — a mark none of its resorts have been able to hit in the last 30 years, said Chief Executive Officer Bob Iger.

... Half the resort’s visitors are from Shanghai and adjacent areas, with the remainder coming from other Chinese cities, Iger said. Park attendance is higher than expected, with “extremely high” occupancy rates at its hotel.

(OC Register, republishing a piece from Bloomberg, "Disney’s Bob Iger says Shanghai Disneyland resort is close to breaking even one year after opening" - June 16, 2017)​

Here's an interesting CNBC interview with Iger about Shanghai Disneyland from June 19, 2016. He also addresses the idea of a park in India. Nothing about having foreigners visit Shanghai Disneyland (e.g., tailoring it at least somewhat for Western tourists, etc.); it's obviously all about the domestic market.

A third hotel is on the way at the Shanghai Disney Resort. Maybe it'll open around the time the new Zootopia land opens.

 

[GiveMeTheMusic]

Out of curiosity, how much does Disneyland in California benefit from international tourists as opposed to locals? And how much does Disneyland Paris benefit from locals as opposed to tourists?

Disneyland does not get a significant amount of international tourism. It's there, but it's a fraction. No idea about DLP, but I would imagine it's more of an even mix between French and broader European visitors.

 

[IanDLBZF]

Late breaking - China is reopening their borders starting on January 8, 2023!!

China to reopen border Jan. 8, requiring only negative COVID test

On-arrival PCR tests, quarantine to be scrapped; 'orderly' outbound travel to resume

asia.nikkei.com

Only a negative COVID-19 test will be required to enter the country.

 

[Sir_Cliff]

Disneyland does not get a significant amount of international tourism. It's there, but it's a fraction. No idea about DLP, but I would imagine it's more of an even mix between French and broader European visitors.

I'm not sure that's entirely true regarding Disneyland, California.

I am currently in Australia for the holidays and just saw an ad for Disneyland flash up on a giant video screen above the escalator in a mall here. So, they are at least advertising in Australia and I imagine in other international markets. California and specifically Los Angeles also draws a lot of international tourism and Disneyland is one of the state's biggest tourist attractions, so I'd be surprised if Disneyland does not get a significant amount of international tourism.

 

[PiratesMansion]

I'm not sure that's entirely true regarding Disneyland, California.

I am currently in Australia for the holidays and just saw an ad for Disneyland flash up on a giant video screen above the escalator in a mall here. So, they are at least advertising in Australia and I imagine in other international markets. California and specifically Los Angeles also draws a lot of international tourism and Disneyland is one of the state's biggest tourist attractions, so I'd be surprised if Disneyland does not get a significant amount of international tourism.

I imagine that in comparison to WDW, Hong Kong and Paris, the number of international visitors is slight, though DLR almost certainly receives more international tourists than Tokyo or Shanghai.

Disneyland is less centrally located to where tourists are going to congregate in LA and there isn't great public transportation infrastructure to get you there. You pretty much need a car, and it's a solid hour away from a lot of other LA attractions. That makes it easy to cut, especially given the expense and time needed (even if you're just going for a day) compared to other options that require less time.

By comparison, WDW isn't hard to get to from anywhere in Orlando (and has the size and scope on its side) even if there isn't great public transit to get you there and it's still the main reason people go to that city at all. It's much more conveniently located to everything else of interest too.

Disneyland Paris is next to the international tourism magnet of the world and is directly served by the RER trains.

Hong Kong is a major finance center and has a lot of people funneling in and out on the daily.

Side note, it's fascinating to see the way that Hong Kong and Paris in particular cater to international visitors and have to keep in mind that they are servicing huge numbers of people from a variety of languages and cultures on a daily basis. To some extent that's true of the other parks, but it's truly a balancing act of coordination in those two parks.

This is not to say that DLR receives NO international marketing or visitors, but that it will always be slight in comparison to places like Hong Kong, Paris, and even Florida for a variety of reasons.

 

[TalkToEthan]

, but endearing itself to locals since COVID has worked well for them and they're becoming a beloved local park much later than they intended.

Really? That rat mountain Ocean Park with county carnival “fold-up-and-move-to-the-next location” grade rides was pulling more attendance than HKDL. Not sure about the last recent years though.

Every time(4 trips now scattered since 20010) I have gone I see walk ons for just about every attraction. I like the place quite a bit but it looks like locals just aren’t coming in droves.

 

[Sir_Cliff]

I imagine that in comparison to WDW, Hong Kong and Paris, the number of international visitors is slight, though DLR almost certainly receives more international tourists than Tokyo or Shanghai.

Disneyland is less centrally located to where tourists are going to congregate in LA and there isn't great public transportation infrastructure to get you there. You pretty much need a car, and it's a solid hour away from a lot of other LA attractions. That makes it easy to cut, especially given the expense and time needed (even if you're just going for a day) compared to other options that require less time.

I would just be interested to know what kind of percentage of Disneyland's visitors is international. My understanding is that, percentage wise, it's also not huge at WDW but that you're still talking big numbers and, particularly, big spenders. As someone who has only visited LA as an international tourist, I scratch my head a little at the idea that Disneyland would be considered too out-of-the-way for most tourists and not worth visiting. It's one of the main attractions in Los Angeles, and a lot of families in particular base themselves in Anaheim and take tours out to places like Hollywood and Santa Monica from there.

By comparison, WDW isn't hard to get to from anywhere in Orlando (and has the size and scope on its side) even if there isn't great public transit to get you there and it's still the main reason people go to that city at all. It's much more conveniently located to everything else of interest too.

I think the difference here is that theme parks are the only reason tourists really visit Orlando, so if people are going there they will almost certainly visit WDW. I can't imagine there are many people traveling from overseas to see the sights of Orlando and then decide to catch a bus to Magic Kingdom or Epcot on a whim.

Disneyland Paris is next to the international tourism magnet of the world and is directly served by the RER trains.

I kind of think Disneyland Paris has more of a similar dynamic to WDW in terms of tourists, to be honest. The relationship between Paris and Disneyland seems a little like the inverse of Los Angeles and Disneyland in that it's not exactly a quintessentially Parisian attraction and the city has so much to see that it's easy to skip. I do think a lot of people from around Europe, however, travel specifically to Disneyland Paris. I do agree, though, that it is impressive how well they handle the international mix of visitors and languages.

Another thing to keep in mind is the numbers you're talking about at DLR are a lot greater than DLRP. The 2019 figures for the two DLR parks were 28,527,000 while for DLRP they were 14,990,000. So, numbers-wise, Disneyland could be receiving comparable numbers of international visitors even if they are a smaller percentage.

 

[GiveMeTheMusic]

Really? That rat mountain Ocean Park with county carnival “fold-up-and-move-to-the-next location” grade rides was pulling more attendance than HKDL. Not sure about the last recent years though.

Every time(4 trips now scattered since 20010) I have gone I see walk ons for just about every attraction. I like the place quite a bit but it looks like locals just aren’t coming in droves.

COVID has completely shifted everything. No idea how Ocean Park is doing since the pandemic, but HKDL has significantly grown its local audience. It's got a long way to go, but it's a big (and good) shift for them.

 

[Haymarket]

Some video from the other day. The parade looks really good.



A Zootopia pic from the other day. It's really coming along!

 

[J4546]

Even though Ive never seen Zootopia I am very intrigued about what this new land will look like and the ride. It reminds me of Cars Land for some reason, maybe its just the style and scale of the buidings...i dunno. Ive also never seen Cars movies but CarsLand is one of the greatest Disney lands in any park imo.

 

[Robbiem]

COVID has completely shifted everything. No idea how Ocean Park is doing since the pandemic, but HKDL has significantly grown its local audience. It's got a long way to go, but it's a big (and good) shift for them.

I hope this means HK has turned a corner. Its such a beautiful resort it deserves to be a success

 

[yensidtlaw1969]

COVID has completely shifted everything. No idea how Ocean Park is doing since the pandemic, but HKDL has significantly grown its local audience. It's got a long way to go, but it's a big (and good) shift for them.

Is there talk of anything coming to Hong Kong after Frozen opens? Looking at aerials of the park, I'm a little stunned by the way it seems so already built-out . . . by which I mean there seems to be very little space left for meaningful expansion.

That's an odd place to be for a park that's barely even old enough to drive, especially when they seem to recognize that they need to keep growing.

 

[OzAn]

Really? That rat mountain Ocean Park with county carnival “fold-up-and-move-to-the-next location” grade rides was pulling more attendance than HKDL. Not sure about the last recent years though.

Every time(4 trips now scattered since 20010) I have gone I see walk ons for just about every attraction. I like the place quite a bit but it looks like locals just aren’t coming in droves.

Don't know what the make-up is like now after COVID, but when I visited HKDL in 2017, I heard more guests talking in Japanese than Chinese in the park. The "English" skipper line for the Jungle Cruise had a 10 min waiting time, whilst the "Cantonese" skipper line was literal walk on. Locals were really scarce. But I consider HKDL a little gem for this reason. Despite it has less attractions, I managed to achieve more than any other park because you can go on every ride with little to no waiting, arrive at parades and firework just before they start and be in front row spots, plus fit in sit downs for breakfast, lunch, afternoon tea and dinner, with plenty of shopping time. Easily one of the best days I had in a Disney park.

As someone who has only visited LA as an international tourist, I scratch my head a little at the idea that Disneyland would be considered too out-of-the-way for most tourists and not worth visiting. It's one of the main attractions in Los Angeles, and a lot of families in particular base themselves in Anaheim and take tours out to places like Hollywood and Santa Monica from there.

Another thing to keep in mind is the numbers you're talking about at DLR are a lot greater than DLRP. The 2019 figures for the two DLR parks were 28,527,000 while for DLRP they were 14,990,000. So, numbers-wise, Disneyland could be receiving comparable numbers of international visitors even if they are a smaller percentage.

I too scratch my head at that idea international tourist in LA wouldn't think of visiting the original Disney. If anything I feel like Disneyland is a main attraction for LA even more so than Hollywood related tourist spots, which has been poorly maintained and lost a lot of its luster.

And yes percentage can be deceiving, and the same can be said for Tokyo. Despite TDR does not rely on international tourism that doesn't mean it does not have a lot of international tourist based on absolute numbers.

COVID has completely shifted everything. No idea how Ocean Park is doing since the pandemic, but HKDL has significantly grown its local audience. It's got a long way to go, but it's a big (and good) shift for them.

That is good to hear as that place deserves more love. Although I have a selfish conundrum of wanting it to remain crowd-less if I ever have the chance to revisit again.

 

[J4546]

Is there talk of anything coming to Hong Kong after Frozen opens? Looking at aerials of the park, I'm a little stunned by the way it seems so already built-out . . . by which I mean there seems to be very little space left for meaningful expansion.

That's an odd place to be for a park that's barely even old enough to drive, especially when they seem to recognize that they need to keep growing.

theres a few very large expansion pads left in HK, a big 1 in tomorrowland where the avengers ride was gonna go, concept art for the ride looked amazing facade wise. theres also a large expansion plot where our adventureland is. and a few more. Plus the expansion plot for the 2nd park beside it but who knows if that will ever happen

 

[Haymarket]

theres a few very large expansion pads left in HK, a big 1 in tomorrowland where the avengers ride was gonna go, concept art for the ride looked amazing facade wise. theres also a large expansion plot where our adventureland is. and a few more. Plus the expansion plot for the 2nd park beside it but who knows if that will ever happen

I really hope they build that second park (yes, I know about denial of the option renewal), and a Disneytown-like area. If there's a second park, I hope they'll go all-out, and avoid the initial mistakes they made with HKDL.

 

[TalkToEthan]

A second HK park? They haven't been filling the first...far from it actually