Settle a debate: Which park was Walt's "true" vision?

s8film40

s8film40

Well-Known Member
Walt specifically said that whatever park was built in Florida he didn't want it to be a Disneyland style park. He always said there would only ever be one Disneyland and that he thought it would work out that way since they could build a park with different themes but still use the same concepts behind Disneyland.

Even though the company didn't have faith in his vision and went ahead and built a Disneyland copy they have since proven him correct by building several other parks that don't replicate the Disneyland style park.

Personally I think the park could have been something closer to the EPCOT park we have today. The heavy future theme would have served as a nice transition from EPCOT and the international area could have supported many other themed offerings.
 
tink729

tink729

Active Member
I think it's safe to say that Disneyland was his first true love, but that the original concept for Epcot was his true vision right up until the end.
 
lazyboy97o

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
The notion of the Magic Kingdom being part of the "dream" comes almost entirely from the Company. It is often considered a concession to secure financing. That is why Walt went from saying there will never be another Disneyland to plopping one down in Florida. He was willing to repeat himself for EPCOT.
 
Florida_is_hot

Florida_is_hot

Well-Known Member
It is my understanding is E.P.C.O.T was never built.
EPCOT 1982 was one component
Epcot today I do not think he would approve of the changes, he was a visionary, things like Test Track, Space they are not educational.

Celebration was supposed to be part of E.P.C.O.T of course Disney sold that.

But in general, seen the map and the film in DHS what Walt Disney World is today is closer to the vision of Walt Disney.
 
s8film40

s8film40

Well-Known Member
Celebration was just simply a means of selling off land. It had absolutely nothing to do with EPCOT. The only similarity it shares is that people live there.
 
ddbowdoin

ddbowdoin

Well-Known Member
s8film40 said:
Celebration was just simply a means of selling off land. It had absolutely nothing to do with EPCOT. The only similarity it shares is that people live there.
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AGREED... especially since Walt mentioned no one would own, all would rent... no one would be retired, all would work. Think about who lives there... wealthy retirees
 
Clever Name

Clever Name

Well-Known Member
s8film40 said:
Walt specifically said that whatever park was built in Florida he didn't want it to be a Disneyland style park. He always said there would only ever be one Disneyland and that he thought it would work out that way since they could build a park with different themes but still use the same concepts behind Disneyland.
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Do you have a source for that information? Walt stated in his EPCOT film that the Disney World theme park would be similar to Disneyland. The map shows the Jungle Cruise attraction and an identical theme park layout to Disneyland. :wave:
 
TP2000

TP2000

Well-Known Member
Clever Name said:
Do you have a source for that information? Walt stated in his EPCOT film that the Disney World theme park would be similar to Disneyland. The map shows the Jungle Cruise attraction and an identical theme park layout to Disneyland. :wave:
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The difference in Walt's statements was a year. His "there will never be another Disneyland" statement was when he introduced the Florida project in 1965. In October, 1966 (two months before he died), he filmed the EPCOT movie that was going to be used to entice companies to invest in EPCOT.

That EPCOT '66 film is where Walt showed several sketches and diagrams of the "amusement theme park" area of the Florida property, and it was an exact cut-and-paste map of Disneyland circa 1966. It didn't even have the New Tomorrowland 1967 buildings on it, but still had the original 1955-61 Tomorrowland structures that hadn't been changed by 1966.

Hello Disneyland in Florida! How do I get to the Matterhorn from here?
Walt Disney in front of Magic Kingdom roof plan.

Walt didn't really care what they did with the amusement park in Florida. It was EPCOT he was after. The fabricated tale that Walt "dreamed" of building Magic Kingdom Park in Florida is corporate clap-trap conjured up decades after Walt's death to lure tourists to book vacations there.

As he didn't give more than a passing thought to the Florida theme park before his death, and even then his thought was just to cut-and-paste Disneyland until they could think of something else later, and since the Florida Project that arrived in 1971 and grew from there looked nothing like what Walt had dreamed up on his deathbed in late '66, I would say that Walt Disney would have preferred Disneyland over WDW.

At Disneyland, at least it looks and acts like what he had intended for the place. With the exception of a Disneyland clone (that is still missing over a dozen rides 40 years later), his Florida property doesn't have any of the ideas or concepts he publicly asked for in '66.
 
Kamikaze

Kamikaze

Well-Known Member
There really isn't a debate. Disneyland was his vision. MK was what he was going to build to allow for E.P.C.O.T.

His E.P.C.O.T. was never realized. So that leaves his only theme park vision, Disneyland.
 
s8film40

s8film40

Well-Known Member
Clever Name said:
That was en excellent example of source material! Thank you for bringing that to my attention. It really demonstrates the saleman in Walt and how he changed his story based upon the audience. He was a slick customer! :wave:
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Yes you also have to consider the timing as EPCOT hadn't been announced, so he was trying to hold that back while still trying to emphasize the grandness of his plans.
 
Clever Name

Clever Name

Well-Known Member
s8film40 said:
Yes you also have to consider the timing as EPCOT hadn't been announced, so he was trying to hold that back while still trying to emphasize the grandness of his plans.
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He was a master of manipulation and his deceit was as grand as his plans. I just wonder why he was so honest about his plans for EPCOT when he finally revealed the Florida Project to the legislature. After all, what he proposed for EPCOT was in essence a slave labor camp. :wave:
 
Clever Name

Clever Name

Well-Known Member
ChrisFL said:
Using what evidence?? I've studied the Epcot City plan for years, and have no idea what you're referring to, unless you're just being a troll
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The people who lived in EPCOT would have been required to work for the Disney Company or for the affiliated sponsor companies. No one would be allowed to own any real estate. They were required to live in Disney owned houses and apartments and rent would be deducted directly from their paychecks. They would not be allowed to vote since the government would be run by the Disney Company. They would be “encouraged” to buy all goods and services from the EPCOT retail establishments. It was a closed system much like the old West Virginia coal camps and mining towns. Walt wanted cheap labor for his theme parks and the related industrial work sites. He also wanted his work force to be onsite and under his immediate control. :wave:
 
s8film40

s8film40

Well-Known Member
Clever Name said:
The people who lived in EPCOT would have been required to work for the Disney Company or for the affiliated sponsor companies. No one would be allowed to own any real estate. They were required to live in Disney owned houses and apartments and rent would be deducted directly from their paychecks. They would not be allowed to vote since the government would be run by the Disney Company. They would be “encouraged” to buy all goods and services from the EPCOT retail establishments. It was a closed system much like the old West Virginia coal camps and mining towns. Walt wanted cheap labor for his theme parks and the related industrial work sites. He also wanted his work force to be onsite and under his immediate control. :wave:
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None of this is true, you really should do a little more research.
 
ChrisFL

ChrisFL

Premium Member
Clever Name said:
The people who lived in EPCOT would have been required to work for the Disney Company or for the affiliated sponsor companies. No one would be allowed to own any real estate. They were required to live in Disney owned houses and apartments and rent would be deducted directly from their paychecks. They would not be allowed to vote since the government would be run by the Disney Company. They would be “encouraged” to buy all goods and services from the EPCOT retail establishments. It was a closed system much like the old West Virginia coal camps and mining towns. Walt wanted cheap labor for his theme parks and the related industrial work sites. He also wanted his work force to be onsite and under his immediate control. :wave:
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Ok, let's look at now. There are 3-4 different sites where Cast Members, such as the College Program and International students are staying in housing (apartments) on property as long as they're working for Disney. They also don't get any voting rights, they pay rent though I don't know if its deducted from their paychecks. So in your interpretation, Disney is currently running slave labor camps :rolleyes:

As for your accusation that they were "encouraged" to buy everything from EPCOT itself, I see no evidence of that, and if what you're saying about "slavery" is true, why would they be allowed to own cars? I mean, people with cars could ESCAPE! :rolleyes:
 

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