ScreamScape 11/22: More DTD Rumors

[GizmoDuck]

"A Screamscape source tells me that along with the introduction of the Hyperion Wharf concept to Downtown Disney, there are also plans in the works to add a small trolley system to run along the lengthy complex, very similar to what is being added to the California Adventure park.

There are likely to be a few other changes as well down at the West End. I’m hearing that House of Blues may be planning to leave Disney property entirely in the future, in favor of setting themselves up off-site in a new location. If this happens, look for Harley Davidson to move into the former HOB digs.

Meanwhile the Mouse has plans in the works for the nearby Virgin Megastore building that would see it redesigned as a cluster of smaller high-end shops.

I’m also being told that Cirque is currently planning a whole new show to eventually replace the long running La Nouba show in 2013, around the same time as the rest of Hyperion Wharf, taking advantage of it as the right time to relaunch themselves along with the rest of Downtown Disney."

Take it or leave it, that's today's news. Thoughts?

 

[s8film40]

I kind of sounds like they are getting their information from this forum. The trolley idea is being discussed here, and the Virgin Megastore minimall thing is being discussed here as well. Now if HOB or any other businesses continue to pull out of DTD it won't be good for attracting tenants to HW.

 

[wdwmagic]

I really cant see HOB moving out, and their space is massively bigger than the existing Harley store.

 

[cdunbar]

I really cant see HOB moving out.

Yeah me neither because if they moved it'd probably be to church street and then they'd have to compete for entertainment bookings. :shrug:

 

[s8film40]

I really cant see HOB moving out,

I can see it, I think a lot of businesses are starting to realize there is no added value whatsoever to being "at Disney" as opposed to any other retail area locally. If HOB moved they would still attract the same level of business if not more the only difference is they could probably pay less rent. I think if Disney wants to keep DTD going they are going to have to start looking at it on the same level as any other retail area and get rid of the it's on Disney property so it's worth more attitude.

 

[wdwmagic]

I can see it, I think a lot of businesses are starting to realize there is no added value whatsoever to being "at Disney" as opposed to any other retail area locally. If HOB moved they would still attract the same level of business if not more the only difference is they could probably pay less rent. I think if Disney wants to keep DTD going they are going to have to start looking at it on the same level as any other retail area and get rid of the it's on Disney property so it's worth more attitude.

Wow I know you don't like DTD, but to say there is no added value of being there is crazy.

Disney bring in millions of guests to your doorstep each year and promote your business around the world. Having an inbuilt guest base for being atDTD is massive.

 

[Master Yoda]

I really cant see HOB moving out, and their space is massively bigger than the existing Harley store.

While I can not see them moving out either it would be feasible for Harley Davidson to turn the place into a Harley Davidson Cafe similar to the one they have in Vegas. With a few minor alterations the existing building would easily fit with a Harley theme.

 

[wdwmagic]

While I can not see them moving out either it would be feasible for Harley Davidson to turn the place into a Harley Davidson Cafe similar to the one they have in Vegas. With a few minor alterations the existing building would easily fit with a Harley theme.

How big is the Harley Vegas location? Remember HOB has the large dining rooms, along with the performance hall, and the retail location.

 

[Ignohippo]

I can't see HOB moving. If anything, they're one of the last businesses for adult entertainment left in DTD so I would think their business would be benefitting greatly from the closure of PI. I would also think their lease would be written in a way that would prohibit them from moving to a new location. If HoB does close, it would be a disaster for the West Side unless something spectacular moves in its place.

Good to see Cirque getting a new show. It's about 10 years too late! With the current trend of theming Cirque shows, I wonder if we'll see a Disney themed show...

 

[s8film40]

Wow I know you don't like DTD, but to say there is no added value of being there is crazy.

Disney bring in millions of guests to your doorstep each year and promote your business around the world. Having an inbuilt guest base for being atDTD is massive.

I never said I didn't like DTD. I'm just looking at it from a business perspective. A potential tenant is most concerned with how well their business will perform in a location versus the rent they will pay. They will look at various locations and weight these two factors so they can choose the option that will deliver the most profit. All of the local retail areas experience a large throughput of people. DTD is no busier than FL Mall, Mellinia Mall, Outlet malls, etc. We perceive it as a greater value because it's Disney but from a business perspective it's all bout how many people are going to be walking past your business and in this area Disney doesn't really have anything over the competition.

 

[Master Yoda]

How big is the Harley Vegas location? Remember HOB has the large dining rooms, along with the performance hall, and the retail location.

No idea how big the place is but from the pictures and the virtual ride through the place would appear to be a pretty large 2 story restaurant.

 

[imagineer boy]

I’m also being told that Cirque is currently planning a whole new show to eventually replace the long running La Nouba show in 2013, around the same time as the rest of Hyperion Wharf, taking advantage of it as the right time to relaunch themselves along with the rest of Downtown Disney."

I don't believe this one bit. Cirque has never replaced any of its permanent shows and La Nouba still gets large crowds on a daily basis. Plus they already just made a variety of changes to the show with the Juggling and jump ropes. So why completely replace it?

Plus I adore La Nouba. IMHO its one of Cirque's best shows, I'd hate to see it go away.

 

[Krack]

How big is the Harley Vegas location? Remember HOB has the large dining rooms, along with the performance hall, and the retail location.

I don't know how big the WDW HOB is, but the Harley Cafe in Vegas seemed larger than the DL HOB to me.

 

[imagineer boy]

Good to see Cirque getting a new show. It's about 10 years too late! With the current trend of theming Cirque shows, I wonder if we'll see a Disney themed show...

Um, Cirque shows have always been themed.

And there's not a snow balls chance in hell they'll make a Disney themed Cirque show. :lol:

 

[DisneyJoe]

DTD is no busier than FL Mall, Mellinia Mall, Outlet malls, etc.

Probably your perception, unless you have numbers to back it up?

 

[s8film40]

Probably your perception, unless you have numbers to back it up?

Well you don't really need numbers, you just have to think about it a little. The FL Mall for example has more businesses than DTD. For those businesses to do well the FL mall has to attract more people than DTD does. The stores aren't going out of business and there doesn't seem to be as much empty space at the FL Mall as DTD, so I would say they are at least getting an equivalent attendance if not more. I'm sure if you ranked the shopping areas in Central FL by attendance DTD would not take the first spot.

 

[mightynine]

Well you don't really need numbers, you just have to think about it a little. The FL Mall for example has more businesses than DTD. For those businesses to do well the FL mall has to attract more people than DTD does. The stores aren't going out of business and there doesn't seem to be as much empty space at the FL Mall as DTD, so I would say they are at least getting an equivalent attendance if not more. I'm sure if you ranked the shopping areas in Central FL by attendance DTD would not take the first spot.

But much of the empty space in DTD is from Disney closing the clubs, right? Things like the Virgin Megastore closing down are out of the company's control.

 

[Mr.EPCOT]

I really cant see HOB moving out, and their space is massively bigger than the existing Harley store.

Maybe they'll start selling actual Harleys. :lol:

 

[Disneyfanman]

Well you don't really need numbers, you just have to think about it a little. The FL Mall for example has more businesses than DTD. For those businesses to do well the FL mall has to attract more people than DTD does. The stores aren't going out of business and there doesn't seem to be as much empty space at the FL Mall as DTD, so I would say they are at least getting an equivalent attendance if not more. I'm sure if you ranked the shopping areas in Central FL by attendance DTD would not take the first spot.

I don't know.........I think you might be off on this. DTD visitors are on vacation and come armed with cash. It's not a traditional mall in the sense of the kind of businesses that do well, but I bet their sales per sq foot ranks with the best in the region. The issue would be occupancy costs. I don't know what the terms are, but Disney isn't losing money at DTD. New Restaurants seem to be doing fine. The Virgin Megastores lasted longer on Disney property then anywhere else. It's the small, extremely expensive boutiques that seem to struggle in today's economy and I bet they would be struggling anywhere.

I have visited the HOB in Chicago, which is supposed to be quite successful, and never have seen the crowds that I have seen at DTD. It would surprise me if they left unless there was another mega-development like the old Church Street Station that was coming. I could see that.

Disney does have to play a bit of catch-up tho. They have let DTD deteriorate in terms of the offerings and atmosphere. I am glad to see the new plan.

 

[WDWFigment]

Is Screamscape even relevant anymore?