SAVI - Stanza V: Team S.E.A. - Phantasialand

[Disney Dad 3000]

Things were quiet yesterday. Let’s get loud! Let’s do some Armchair Accountaineering!

BUDGET DRAFT

New RMC coaster with theming - $40 million (estimate based on inflated cost of Black Mamba)

New GCI coaster - $40 million

Trackless museum dark ride - $40 million (same price as Efteling’s Symbolica)

Fantasy site improvements (draining lake, building new building, demolishing Hollywood Tour building) - $40 million

Additional filler attractions etc in Fantasy - $20 million

Geister Rikscha suspended dark ride replacement - $25 million (inflated cost of Droomvlucht)

Simulator attraction for Africa - $25 million

Flat ride for Africa - $5 million

New entrance gate - $10 million

Improving food & merch as needed parkwide - $10 million

Spending time in a theme park with family - Priceless

If my math adds up hilarious that’s the allotted $250 million.

Well, what shall we work on today? I think devising s layout fits the Fantasy changes would be a good project. And when we get going with proper attraction development, we can split off with a coaster guy and a dark ride guy. @Disney Dad 3000, with your interest in Germany, what would you like to do moving forward?

Still kicking myself I didn't know about this place when I was in Cologne 10 years ago. We had a day to kill waiting for a night train to Switzerland and did a RT train ride to Aachen for a few hours. This would've been an ideal and closer excursion.

As far as work, kicking off with the Fantasy area changes (lagoon, new building and its 2 attractions and the wooden outdoor coaster you mentioned) makes sense. That probably should be the bulk/highest detail of the work/presentation considering the scope of what will happen there. Everything else more of a general overview in a couple paragraphs for each?

Maybe we do a more detailed bit too about a signature type restaurant inside the new lagoon bldg as well and then generalize the rest of the parks dining.

 

[D Hulk]

Still kicking myself I didn't know about this place when I was in Cologne 10 years ago. We had a day to kill waiting for a night train to Switzerland and did a RT train ride to Aachen for a few hours. This would've been an ideal and closer excursion.

As far as work, kicking off with the Fantasy area changes (lagoon, new building and its 2 attractions and the wooden outdoor coaster you mentioned) makes sense. That probably should be the bulk/highest detail of the work/presentation considering the scope of what will happen there. Everything else more of a general overview in a couple paragraphs for each?

Maybe we do a more detailed bit too about a signature type restaurant inside the new lagoon bldg as well and then generalize the rest of the parks dining.

Agreed on all points. In many ways our project has morphed from a park overhaul into a land. So that includes land-type details like a centerpiece restaurant, plus discussion of finer details like flat rides and retail.

Since acreage is at such a premium, in the next day or two let’s actually map out (complete with coaster layouts) what’s happening in Fantasy.

Could you go into more detail about the King Ludwig theming idea? With pics? I looked him up, and I guess he built the castle which inspired Disneyland. How would he inspire Phantasialand?

 

[D Hulk]

Here an entirely new theme/aesthetic idea for the indoors area:

BARON MUNCHAUSEN!
TALL TALES IN THE AGE OF REASON

Munchausen is a distinctly German folk hero, whose world and exploits seem a good fusion of Fantasy’s storybook look and the steampunk stylings of Rookburgh.

The Baron’s adventures include: Flying a ship suspended from a balloon to the Moon. Battling a gigantic crocodile. Riding a cannonball in Austria’s wars against the Turks. Being swallowed by a huge fish in the Mediterranean. And more!

All of these have definite attraction potential! The RMC racing coaster remains, becoming A Race to the Moon. (Moon stuff is as fantastical as Melies’ 1903 Journey to the Moon film, with fantastic rockwork potential.) The dark ride becomes a suspended adventure aboard Munich’s flying machine encountering the fish, crocodile, and other extraordinary sights (thus we relocate the trackless artwork concept to Geister Rickshaw). General land aesthetics illogically combine German architecture spanning the 18th & 19th centuries, all Baroque & Rococo, with a ton of very outdated scientific equipment and tech and spinning gewgaws display all over.

We could do this either with Baron Munchausen himself, or with an orcharacter inspired by him - say Baron Hauser von Fleuffeldorff (just typing out loud). This could be really fun!​

 

[Disney Dad 3000]

Agreed on all points. In many ways our project has morphed from a park overhaul into a land. So that includes land-type details like a centerpiece restaurant, plus discussion of finer details like flat rides and retail.

Since acreage is at such a premium, in the next day or two let’s actually map out (complete with coaster layouts) what’s happening in Fantasy.

Could you go into more detail about the King Ludwig theming idea? With pics? I looked him up, and I guess he built the castle which inspired Disneyland. How would he inspire Phantasialand?

The art ride idea is what triggered Ludwig for me and then somehow taking that modern with your cityscape. He was labeled insane, though no idea how much so, but he built castles and rooms of art, etc to escape the world, create his own fantasy world so to speak. He'd lock himself in those rooms. A bit of a recluse and off his rocker probably. And there was a German tie in.

I like this (below) a lot

Here an entirely new theme/aesthetic idea for the indoors area:

BARON MUNCHAUSEN!
TALL TALES IN THE AGE OF REASON

Munchausen is a distinctly German folk hero, whose world and exploits seem a good fusion of Fantasy’s storybook look and the steampunk stylings of Rookburgh.

The Baron’s adventures include: Flying a ship suspended from a balloon to the Moon. Battling a gigantic crocodile. Riding a cannonball in Austria’s wars against the Turks. Being swallowed by a huge fish in the Mediterranean. And more!

All of these have definite attraction potential! The RMC racing coaster remains, becoming A Race to the Moon. (Moon stuff is as fantastical as Melies’ 1903 Journey to the Moon film, with fantastic rockwork potential.) The dark ride becomes a suspended adventure aboard Munich’s flying machine encountering the fish, crocodile, and other extraordinary sights (thus we relocate the trackless artwork concept to Geister Rickshaw). General land aesthetics illogically combine German architecture spanning the 18th & 19th centuries, all Baroque & Rococo, with a ton of very outdated scientific equipment and tech and spinning gewgaws display all over.

We could do this either with Baron Munchausen himself, or with an orcharacter inspired by him - say Baron Hauser von Fleuffeldorff (just typing out loud). This could be really fun!​

This is perfect. You get German background with this fictional german character and still a Fantasy vibe but quirkier, and fun. Moving the suspended ride here is ideal as you can really work both rides mixed together (at least for the early portion of the coaster before reaching space/the moon)

I have not seen this movie in a minute and had completely forgotten about it until you brought him up . Tons of great visual potential.

 

[D Hulk]

Munchausen it is!

I’m thinking we could switch themes. Let the dark ride cover the trip to the moon (it’s full of scenery and story)...

...and let the racing coaster be an earthbound race between two cannon-powered contraptions. The Great Gewgaw Race, or some name like that. Still set indoors under a stylized painted sky and through rocky canyons.

Germany’s Externsteine, good rocky coaster scenery​

Main indoors walkways are within a ludicrously grand Rococo palace, with vast bay windows looking “outside” onto coaster & dark ride scenery. The centerpiece restaurant’s big selling point can be its moon views.

Full disclosure: I haven’t seen the movie. I’m working from Google & Wikipedia.

 

[Disney Dad 3000]

Munchausen it is!

I’m thinking we could switch themes. Let the dark ride cover the trip to the moon (it’s full of scenery and story)...

...and let the racing coaster be an earthbound race between two cannon-powered contraptions. The Great Gewgaw Race, or some name like that. Still set indoors under a stylized painted sky and through rocky canyons.

Germany’s Externsteine, good rocky coaster scenery​

Main indoors walkways are within a ludicrously grand Rococo palace, with vast bay windows looking “outside” onto coaster & dark ride scenery. The centerpiece restaurant’s big selling point can be its moon views.

Full disclosure: I haven’t seen the movie. I’m working from Google & Wikipedia.

Haven't seen the movie in ages, but from the bits of story we can glean online and youtube bits we can find enough.

Using the Intamin does makes sense for the dark ride/moon. It will be very Peter Panesque as I think you alluded to a few days ago, especially considering his ship is probably the best option for a ride vehicle. Looking at that spaghetti chase ride you linked and the set up of the attraction though could allow for a fun look with the vehicle. They actually provide a blue print for simulating flying up though I'd think we'd actually want the ride to actually have a bit more lift if it's going to integrate with the coaster a bit? If it's self contained from the coaster, might make a good candidate to have it located on the neighborhood side of the new structure with it's low profile.

Like using the look of the palace for the walkways. Almost like you are in the Baron's home or something and each part of the home you are get glimpses of different stories of his adventures. Maybe the restaurant is like a big map room/library/observatory with the moon views, research books, maps of where he's been, etc.

 

[D Hulk]

Haven't seen the movie in ages, but from the bits of story we can glean online and youtube bits we can find enough.

Using the Intamin does makes sense for the dark ride/moon. It will be very Peter Panesque as I think you alluded to a few days ago, especially considering his ship is probably the best option for a ride vehicle. Looking at that spaghetti chase ride you linked and the set up of the attraction though could allow for a fun look with the vehicle. They actually provide a blue print for simulating flying up though I'd think we'd actually want the ride to actually have a bit more lift if it's going to integrate with the coaster a bit? If it's self contained from the coaster, might make a good candidate to have it located on the neighborhood side of the new structure with it's low profile.

Like using the look of the palace for the walkways. Almost like you are in the Baron's home or something and each part of the home you are get glimpses of different stories of his adventures. Maybe the restaurant is like a big map room/library/observatory with the moon views, research books, maps of where he's been, etc.

It sounds like we’re on exactly the same page! I agree with everything you’re saying. Great restaurant details. Perhaps dark ride concept.

It would be simpler to not try integrating the dark ride and coaster, for the reasons you’ve mentioned. So as you suggest, place the dark ride in the furthest corner near the neighborhood. Good call.

Here’s one additional attraction idea: Waltz Tea Cups. A simple flat ride in the palace ballroom, and a common ride type Phantasialand somehow doesn’t have. Theme the cups to fancy dress dancers. Use wild classical music like scherzos. Done!

Additionally, we have $5 mil for a flat ride in Africa. How about a classic spinning flyers ride? These are family friendly and tons of fun; one of my favorite flat ride types!

 

[Disney Dad 3000]

It sounds like we’re on exactly the same page! I agree with everything you’re saying. Great restaurant details. Perhaps dark ride concept.

It would be simpler to not try integrating the dark ride and coaster, for the reasons you’ve mentioned. So as you suggest, place the dark ride in the furthest corner near the neighborhood. Good call.

Here’s one additional attraction idea: Waltz Tea Cups. A simple flat ride in the palace ballroom, and a common ride type Phantasialand somehow doesn’t have. Theme the cups to fancy dress dancers. Use wild classical music like scherzos. Done!

Additionally, we have $5 mil for a flat ride in Africa. How about a classic spinning flyers ride? These are family friendly and tons of fun; one of my favorite flat ride types!

Teacups makes perfect sense, especially with the waltz/ballroom, as the sort of thing that would go here and gives an easy,low space 3rd attraction. Something along these lines (bottom of the dress) with variations for the outside of the cup design?

 

[D Hulk]

That’s exactly how I pictured the teacups! Could be a fun thing for you to illustrate, @Disney Dad 3000 We haven’t seen one of your good live art drawings in a while.

How would you enjoy developing the dark ride?

I’ve begun mapping our additions into the park...maybe they’ll be done later today. Going super compact with the coaster layouts (did one for the GCI woodie) and amazingly we’ll somehow still have room to spare! Now onto the trickier RMC layout...

 

[D Hulk]

Layout draft of our changes to Fantasy.

Includes the new building's minimum footprint. Inside it is the dark ride space (top area, scaled a little larger than similar European dark rides) and the dueling RMC T-Rex coasters, and the Teacups. Outside is a tamer GCI wooden coaster. For noise issues, any hills near the neighbors can have scream tunnels installed, which actually make the ride more fun!

There's enough space remaining that we can still add stuff within our budget. New restaurants & shops. Reroute the Wakobato splash battle slightly within the area between coasters. Add an Antique Cars style ride intertwined with the GCI. And more flat rides as we see fit - swinging ships perhaps?​

 

[Disney Dad 3000]

Layout draft of our changes to Fantasy.

Includes the new building's minimum footprint. Inside it is the dark ride space (top area, scaled a little larger than similar European dark rides) and the dueling RMC T-Rex coasters, and the Teacups. Outside is a tamer GCI wooden coaster. For noise issues, any hills near the neighbors can have scream tunnels installed, which actually make the ride more fun!

There's enough space remaining that we can still add stuff within our budget. New restaurants & shops. Reroute the Wakobato splash battle slightly within the area between coasters. Add an Antique Cars style ride intertwined with the GCI. And more flat rides as we see fit - swinging ships perhaps?​

so it looks a little like this with an overlay of the current area. Are these labels about right with your diagram? Only didn't label was the new wooden coaster that's where the Hollywood bldg is.

Did some rough math on google earth and I think your dimensions are pretty spot on. Dark ride is about .5 acre and the coaster is on an acre which seems about right considering how compact they make things. Taron and Raik combined were like 1.8 acres I think so this seems pretty well in line. You might even get away with widening it if necessary.

Hadn't thought about keeping the splash battle, with us draining the lagoon, but that makes some sense to keep it and keep some water in the park. The ride vehicles are pretty quirky and fitting with the theme of this building anyway. Will be a shorter experience than before, but there's a channel or two near the pedalos the current attraction isn't using to expand that way. If needed, may even consider taking a short trip through the new building? You could maybe have it enter near that Mercedes symbol looking thing on the map and come back out near pedalos lagoon and then back towards the wooden coaster, etc.

Would assume we'll take that path around the lagoon towards the coaster and then loop back up towards the teacups area as the main entrance?

I can definitely work on the dark ride, restaurant too if you'd like initially and go from there once done with what's left in the park. I would like to do a drawing or two this round.

 

[D Hulk]

so it looks a little like this with an overlay of the current area. Are these labels about right with your diagram? Only didn't label was the new wooden coaster that's where the Hollywood bldg is.
View attachment 450841

Did some rough math on google earth and I think your dimensions are pretty spot on. Dark ride is about .5 acre and the coaster is on an acre which seems about right considering how compact they make things. Taron and Raik combined were like 1.8 acres I think so this seems pretty well in line. You might even get away with widening it if necessary.

Hadn't thought about keeping the splash battle, with us draining the lagoon, but that makes some sense to keep it and keep some water in the park. The ride vehicles are pretty quirky and fitting with the theme of this building anyway. Will be a shorter experience than before, but there's a channel or two near the pedalos the current attraction isn't using to expand that way. If needed, may even consider taking a short trip through the new building? You could maybe have it enter near that Mercedes symbol looking thing on the map and come back out near pedalos lagoon and then back towards the wooden coaster, etc.

Would assume we'll take that path around the lagoon towards the coaster and then loop back up towards the teacups area as the main entrance?

I can definitely work on the dark ride, restaurant too if you'd like initially and go from there once done with what's left in the park. I would like to do a drawing or two this round.

Once again, exactly right. Where are you thinking we’ll locate the restaurant? Someplace overlooking the dark ride?

I’ll continue fine tuning the layout. Improved coaster footprints, creating pathways, incorporating the splash battle. It would create a nice photogenic scene, with waterways at the base of our long palace facade. Maybe along with sending the boats briefly into the building, what about exposing the RMC coaster a little on this side for kinetics and visuals?

 

[Disney Dad 3000]

Once again, exactly right. Where are you thinking we’ll locate the restaurant? Someplace overlooking the dark ride?

I’ll continue fine tuning the layout. Improved coaster footprints, creating pathways, incorporating the splash battle. It would create a nice photogenic scene, with waterways at the base of our long palace facade. Maybe along with sending the boats briefly into the building, what about exposing the RMC coaster a little on this side for kinetics and visuals?

The restaurant looking into a scene or two of the dark ride would be a nice touch. Haven't thought much about the dark ride yet, but thinking an early portion of it needs to be land based since you cant do the whole thing on the moon. Maybe some sort of fantastical flying of his ship through a battle breaking out outside of his palace. (Still in the large show bldg of course) etc. on the way to the moon with something a little more serene, if not a little wacky, where the restaurant portion is. Not sure what that is yet.

We could maybe even add a cannonball splash effect or two on the lagoon ride (ala POTC) if it doesn't already have it as I haven't watched a ride through yet.

 

[D Hulk]

Progress.

Now the splash battle is incorporated, and I've created more overlap between pathways and attractions. The main walkway inside Munchausen's palace includes windows overlooking the lagoon on one side and windows overlooking the enclosed coaster on the other side. And I've tossed in the Antique Cars ride in the empty space near the GCI coaster.

Note the building near the entrance; this is for Fantissima, Phantasialand's dinner theater attraction. Also note space created for shops & restaurants, including the Moon Restaurant.

How it scales with the existing park.​

 

[Disney Dad 3000]

Progress.

Now the splash battle is incorporated, and I've created more overlap between pathways and attractions. The main walkway inside Munchausen's palace includes windows overlooking the lagoon on one side and windows overlooking the enclosed coaster on the other side. And I've tossed in the Antique Cars ride in the empty space near the GCI coaster.

Note the building near the entrance; this is for Fantissima, Phantasialand's dinner theater attraction. Also note space created for shops & restaurants, including the Moon Restaurant.

How it scales with the existing park.​

The overlap is perfect too since there's so much overlap in the park and this makes it easy to see that in the new space, and putting in a 2nd entrance.

 

[Disney Dad 3000]

Did this small write up for the waltz flat ride and will work to add a drawing to it, either a vehicle example or a larger scale set pic. Wasn't sure where we'd be putting all this stuff. Start working on the restaurant hopefully tonight and then the dark ride.

Venturing further into the Baron’s palace, guests hear the faint murmur of music drifting down the hallways. Taking a few more steps in through the grandeur of the palace, the Grande Ballroom comes in full sight and the gentle tones of the music become much more prominent. Continuing the extravagant Rococo design of the palace, the ballroom is on full display for guests and home to The Baron’s Waltz.

This simple, yet elegant teacups style flat ride, courtesy of German designer Mack Rides, fills the room with the steady flow of waltz music and evidence that guests have happened upon a ball as luck would have it. The teacups themselves are a bit different from what one expects, and are modeled after a various assortment of European ball gowns, each distinctly pronounced and flowing to the ground. Rhythmically rotating about the room, and the grand scene that has unfolded.

Around the room adorning the walls are all manner of exotic instruments brought back from the Baron’s many adventures. At the center of the attraction though stands a 20 foot tall, self playing violin, with a wild story of its own and how it came to be in the Baron’s possession. High overhead, a series of fresco style paintings depict the fantastical tale and journey to bring back the violin from another far away land and an enjoying sight as you await your turn to take a waltz around the room.​

 

[D Hulk]

The write-up looks grand! Earlier this morning, @NateD1226 confirmed or me that the presentation is meant to be a trip report. Hopefully it shouldn't take too much time to switch this to a "we saw [the following decor]" sort of style. Looking forward to your artwork too!

I'll be getting around to art and write-ups for the coasters...eventually. Right now I'm prepping to host a pair of coronavirus refugees (seriously!) and that's gonna take precedence. But I'll get my stuff done.

 

[Disney Dad 3000]

The write-up looks grand! Earlier this morning, @NateD1226 confirmed or me that the presentation is meant to be a trip report. Hopefully it shouldn't take too much time to switch this to a "we saw [the following decor]" sort of style. Looking forward to your artwork too!

I'll be getting around to art and write-ups for the coasters...eventually. Right now I'm prepping to host a pair of coronavirus refugees (seriously!) and that's gonna take precedence. But I'll get my stuff done.

Ah, cool. I'll keep that in mind on the rest.

Any thoughts on food offerings at the restaurant? Trying to figure out what's offered at each place around the park isn't the most user friendly. Some sort of German makes sense considering the subject matter/character, but don't want to duplicate what's in the park. Maybe very eclectic with offerings from around the world with items tied to where the Baron's stories take place?

Your a good man taking in the refugees. Hopefully not contagious!

 

[D Hulk]

Ah, cool. I'll keep that in mind on the rest.

Any thoughts on food offerings at the restaurant? Trying to figure out what's offered at each place around the park isn't the most user friendly. Some sort of German makes sense considering the subject matter/character, but don't want to duplicate what's in the park. Maybe very eclectic with offerings from around the world with items tied to where the Baron's stories take place?

Your a good man taking in the refugees. Hopefully not contagious!

They were out of China before things started getting bad, so hopefully there’s no problem.

Maybe two restaurants, one higher end table service overlooking the ride and one elsewhere for more casual dining. In both cases, it makes sense to offer a broad selection of continental cuisine with an emphasis on German. Maybe some Turkish food too, since it’s tasty and Munchausen has many adventures among the Ottomans. And I insist that you serve strudel.

 

[D Hulk]

I finally got a little time today to churn out some roller coaster concept art. For a change I worked wholly in Photoshop, for better or worse.

RMC dueling single rail coaster, set indoors

GCI family wooden coaster, set outdoors​