Rumors about the future of AAs and queue themeing

[MKCustodial]

I'll start with a little warning: if you hate Jim Hill and can't see his name without posting terrible remarks about his character and flaming whoever dared to mention his name, you can leave now, there's nothing for you here.


Today's column on Jim Hill's site has him answering questions about why isn't Disney investing more on AA rides and detailed queues like in the old days. The answers were bizarre, to say the least. He claims Disney ain't using AAs because the public doesn't wanna see them, it wants thrill rides. Ok, I can (sadly and unfortunately) see that. But about the queue themeing, he says Disney wants to load more Guests into attractions as possible, and that those Guests don't wanna stand around in queues, hence FastPass. So detailing queues would be a waste of money. But during his explanation he goes on to say that some Imagineers inside WDI, including seniors, have been proposing for some time the return of the ticket books! You know, the A to E deal? Apparently it'd be a better way to control the attractions and determine which ones are worth the effort of updating and rehabing and which ones can go to the scrap heap.

Now, what do you guys think about it? Do you think this is really the future of WDW? No AAs and rail-and-monitor queues like much of Universal Studios?
And what about the other comments about the ticket books? Does anyone around here has any means to verify such a claim with their respective sources?

And once again I plead, I don't wanna hear Jim Hill's full of crap just because you think he's full of crap. I'd like to see actual thought-out opinions, please! Let's keep it civilized, ok? :wave:

 

[tomman710]

Mission:Space was the latest ride created and it's queue is pretty detailed, and the proposed ideas for the queue for EE sound pretty extensive, so I don't buy any of that. I also highly doubt they'd go back to the ticket books idea, dosn't make any sense. Also, in regards to AA, they have just released that new dinosaur AA which should be making it's way to the AK and EE is supposed to have a huge AA creature ... again I don't buy that AA is going away, I think it is getting improved.

 

[disneydawg]

I think M:S proves that Disney isnt scrapping detailing queues. I bet Philharmagic will as well. WDI knows what separates them from the rest of the pack, I dont think they'll change anytime soon. As far as going back to the ticket book system, assuming some imagineers actually favor it, that would be bucking the trend of the entire amusement park industry. In this case that would be a bad thing. I'm sure management take counts of the number of guests frequenting a certain attraction. These counts are a pretty good indicator of what attractions should be kept in tip-top shape. The more I type the more that article doesnt make sense.

 

[Moustronaut]

Two comments:

Themed queues:
I firmly believe that Disney can and does theme rides and queues as budget allows. Somewhere out there, a Disney fan put together a website comparing DCA and TDS with attractions and theme elements since both were built at about the same time. DCA, built on what the webmaster calls a shoe string budget, is severely lacking in theme elements both in the park, queues, and rides themselves. TDS on the other hand is a polar opposite, thanks largely to the money put up by Oriental Land. From personal experience, the theme elements atare simply amazing. I could go on and on about how amazing the detail is. Think MGM’s tower or terror queue detail on a park wide scale. So it’s clear Disney is willing to put in the effort into theme details and thinks it’s a worthy investment, but are constrained by very real budget issues. So it also appears they are willing to say a poorly themed park or attraction is better then no attraction and are willing to sacrifice some of the magic.

Tickets:
Ok, I sorta understand tickets are a way to tell what people are actually willing to pay to ride. You could see that attraction X generates so much in ticket sales where attraction Y generates half as much. Currently you can just tell total rider volumes and can’t tell if a person rode it because they were already in the park and not because the guest thought that particular attraction was worth something.

But doesn’t that mess up the whole fast pass concept? You get a fast pass so you can come back to a certain attraction and get in quickly at a certain time. In the mean time you can go ride all the other attractions. If you have to buy tickets to them, are you gonna ride other rides or just sit around and wait.

So it would seem to me this make the guest experience less enjoyable just for the sake of quick and easy market research.

 

[wild01ride]

What's queue with you??

I think that creating a queue that people will enjoy, but that is efficient and entertaining is a very delicate balance.

From my perspective, in a queue like ToT there are a lot of interesting things to look at in a very short space. Not that I am complaining about a short wait, but at times the line wisks right through the place without taking time, for example, to show a newcomer the details throughout the garden, the water stains in the fountain that never actually held water and the letters in the sign ("E V I L T O W E R") in the lobby.

On the other hand, there are attractions that process guests a little more slowly that you sit staring at a wall for a half hour while you wait for the current show to let out.

I think that it comes down to a matter of what people enjoy and the pace at which they care to enjoy everything.

Overall, I think that Disney has done the best job of anywhere I have ever been in making an awesome atmosphere and enjoyable queues!

 

[MKCustodial]

Re: What's queue with you??

Originally posted by wild01ride
Overall, I think that Disney has done the best job of anywhere I have ever been in making an awesome atmosphere and enjoyable queues!

That's certainly true. But the way things are going, I wonder if they're gonna start axing details for the sake of the mighty dollar...

 

[jmarc63]

Originally posted by disneydawg
I think M:S proves that Disney isnt scrapping detailing queues. I bet Philharmagic will as well. WDI knows what separates them from the rest of the pack, I dont think they'll change anytime soon. As far as going back to the ticket book system, assuming some imagineers actually favor it, that would be bucking the trend of the entire amusement park industry. In this case that would be a bad thing. I'm sure management take counts of the number of guests frequenting a certain attraction. These counts are a pretty good indicator of what attractions should be kept in tip-top shape. The more I type the more that article doesnt make sense.

I think Jim is smoking something funny here when it comes to the going back to the coupon books, there are two ways Disney can tell how popular an attraction is. One is the counters on the turnstyles are used to count the number of guests entering an attraction or they can have you scan you ticket media at the turnstyle to get more detailed if they wanted to, the original "Coupon boks were started at DL in 1955 because that was the way Amusment parks sold rides and addmissions, they finaly converted to the One admission after EPCOT opened because that was the trend by the 1980s. I know that Marriott started one price admissions when they opened Great America in the mid 70s and have been since.

 

[AndyMagic]

I really don't think Disney is going to stop making detailed queues. What they have and will continue doing is shortening the amount of queue that is detailed. M:S's main queue is great and highly themed but it is incredibly short. Just a few switchbacks and that's it with all overflow going outside. We have fastpass to thank for this but I can't really blame Disney. Why would they make these huge elaborate queues if people are just running past all the details that they worked so hard to create. As long as the loading area and the bulk of the main queue is highly themed, I'll be happy.

 

[WDWFREAK53]

Originally posted by AndyMagic
Why would they make these huge elaborate queues if people are just running past all the details that they worked so hard to create. As long as the loading area and the bulk of the main queue is highly themed, I'll be happy.

I agree with this...

Just think about the queue for Dueling Dragons...SPECTACULAR...but most people walk as fast as they can to get to the coasters. (Heck, the stained glass window "animation" alone is worth checking out...My friend has been 4 times and I had to point out that it wasn't just a "window" that it actually had animation to it)

 

[Testtrack321]

I agree with Jim 100% except that M:S is the biggest Disney hit-or-miss (and there ISN'T any carpet under the fuges, just tile.)

I also have avocated the bringing back of ticket books for a while on other boards in the form of digital versions.

 

[Gregory]

Originally posted by jmarc63
I think Jim is smoking something funny here when it comes to the going back to the coupon books, there are two ways Disney can tell how popular an attraction is. One is the counters on the turnstyles are used to count the number of guests entering an attraction or they can have you scan you ticket media at the turnstyle to get more detailed if they wanted to, the original "Coupon boks were started at DL in 1955 because that was the way Amusment parks sold rides and addmissions, they finaly converted to the One admission after EPCOT opened because that was the trend by the 1980s. I know that Marriott started one price admissions when they opened Great America in the mid 70s and have been since.

If I'm not mistaking, thats now what Jim Hill is saying...

Hes not saying WED can go to management and say "2 million guests rode this- we should spend $10,000 on updating it"... Hes saying they can say "2 million dollars were made from this ride- we should spend a mere $10,000 on updating it..."

Plus, more people would ride the A ticket rides if they paid for them- distributing the crowds, and getting more people on rides like CoP...


I think Jim always has some great points, and I enjoy reading his articles... I'm yet to see him be proved wrong- so innocent until proven guilty, I guess...

 

[The_CEO]

Jim Hill is a jackass. I wouldn't trust his columns.

 

[cookiee_munster]

all in all the que is part of the attraction, so Disney has to theme its ques to make the quest feel more immerced into the ride, even when they que

 

[MKCustodial]

Originally posted by The_CEO
Jim Hill is a jackass. I wouldn't trust his columns.

Did you not notice the 2 long requests I made about not posting this kind of thing?

Thank you! :wave:

 

[iluvepcot]

Who exactly is Jim Hill anyways?? What is his past? who is his current employer? What exactly is his job? What are his credentials? And is he or ever has he been affilliated with the Disney Company??

 

[DigitalDisney]

Oh wow. Good ol' Jim

Of course, he very likely has no credible evidence for either of these topics (or any of his previous articles). As far as I (and most of the users on the net) am concerned, all of this is mere speculation.

Coupon Books: Bringing them back is unlikely, but I could see how they could possibly do it. They could almost limit the amount of times you could go on a particular ride (based on a ride ticket) w/the FastPass machines, thereby establishing a system which is similar to the old coupon books. Bringing something like this into play would be suicidal.

AAs: True, we do see less AAs than we used to before. However, it is mostly because of cost cutting. The newest ride with a ton of legit AAs was essentially Splash Mtn, and those were all recycled from America Sings.

Many rides have AAs in them, but the quantity or quality of motion has been lessened than with older rides.

However, if AAs were really being dropped, then why would we even see this "Lucky The Dinosaur" character that's being developed?

Queues: I find this point the hardest to believe. First of all, Disney has not always had extensively themed queues. All of the rides in Fantasyland have boring ol' switchbacks. Even newer rides such as RnRC don't have extensively themed queues.

If Disney didn't care about nice looking queues, then why do we have so many modern rides with extensively themed queues? Kali River Rapids is relatively new, and that queue is one of the best I've ever seen. The same goes for Test Track and ToT. Based on the concept art, it looks like the queue for Everest will be similar to Kali's queue, which is a good indicator. If the queue for California's Soarin ride is any indicator, then ours should be entertaining and detailed as well.

 

[HennieBogan1966]

Jim Hill's Column

Well, it seems to me that we are talking about a couple of things here.

First, the theming of quese.

Second, the changing of the current ticket/fastpass system.

For example, if you have rides, with elaborate quese, that are not heavily visited, then do you need a lot of overhead in the que area? And I think the answer to both of these issues is, it depends on what time of year it is. Therefore, the que areas should be maintained at a high level indefinetily!!! If I'm visiting during the summer, I'm going to be waiting in line no matter what ride I'm going on. And I certainly don't want to stare at a blank wall, with no theming for 30 minutes. I actually think that more money should be put into refurbishing all the quese. (repainting, replacing old aninamatronics, etc.) You wouldn't want Cinderella's Castle left in a state of neglect would you? It's too easy to say, hey let's build a great new roller coaster that the teen-agers like, but let's not clean up BTM, or Peter Pan's Flight. And just a side note, most teen-agers aren't paying the freight on these vacations, their parents are. And I might say to those in a position of power at Disney, that if the parents don't like it, they'll find another way to spend their vacation dollar.

Take care of what you have and continue to improve your packaging of vacations and your guest service. Doing that will enhance the visits of current loyal customers, as well as bring in new cash.

 

[imagineersrock]

Re: Re: What's queue with you??

Originally posted by MKCustodial
That's certainly true. But the way things are going, I wonder if they're gonna start axing details for the sake of the mighty dollar...

actually, IMO i think the exact opposite is happening; i think disney has recently realized that in order to generate those precious return guests, those guests want to come back to the disney of yesterday; a place to find the most incredible ground-breaking attractions, unbelievable staff, and phenominal attention to detail.
i think we will all agree that over the past 8 or so years disney has sadly been in a downward spiral and slowly losing bits and pieces from all the above listed areas.
However- look at what has been accomplished in the last year or so: 1.) the release of MAJOR films including nemo and POTC... disney movies do good, disney does good. disney does good, the parks do good. 2.) the completion of M:S hailed to be one of if not the best new thrill ride in orlando.... then 3.) it seems there is ALOT of good stuff to come in the next few years, IMO we have just entered the new disney decade. [from philhar, to everest... soarin... the stunt show and expansion of mgm... and im sure much much more to come..... PEOPLE- things are looking good..!] lol i can barely control my enthusiasm just typing this out!

*one other thing- as for the ticket books; i dont know about those, i do however feel rather confident that within the next few years we will see a new technology or system that will either be in addition to, or replace fastpass. [i say this because i knew some one who i find rather reliable; when horizons had just closed, he was already dropping me hints of the new attraction M:S... telling me about how there would be parts where you go 'weightless' etc... i was in awe first hearing about it lol.... but back on topic; he had heard me complaining about fastpass and told me [sorry left out he works for HP..] they were currently working on a replacement for it. but refused to give me details saying hed have to kill me..:zipit: unfortunantly however.. i have very little on this rumor throughout the past few years, so i dont know whats up with that..?

*oh yea [just a random question] did hp have anything to do with pal mickey..? just curious.

sorry guys- its a long one; but had to get it all out; havent been on the boards in months!!

-ALEX