RNR and Superman SF Holland.

[paulcmartens]

This has probably been talked about...but what do you guys/gals think about how Six Flags Holland has the same Vekoma coaster as Disney MGM (Superman is same track as RNR).

I think its kind of silly that there isn't enough creativity to go around for different rides between different theme park companies...but oh well.

 

[wdwmagic]

Yup agreed. Disney should not have allowed Vekoma to resell that layout to another organisation. The total lack of theming or enclosure on the SF version does make it a rather poor overall comparison to RnR however.

 

[DisneyFan 2000]

Originally posted by wdwmagic
The total lack of theming or enclosure on the SF version does make it a rather poor overall comparison to RnR however.

But it's still disapointing that WDI bought an off-the-shelf design!

 

[paulcmartens]

not so sure it was off the shelf...Superman the ride opened after RNR if my memory serves me.

for matterhorn, walt asked arrow to help out...comissioned them if you will, but I'm not aware of arrow turning around and selling the matterhorn design to anyone else...

I guess my point is...great ride..bizarre decision not to limit its use to only disney parks...who knows what the full story is.

 

[wdwmagic]

Originally posted by DisneyFan 2000
But it's still disapointing that WDI bought an off-the-shelf design!

WDI designed the track layout with vekoma. It wasnt an off the shelf layout.

 

[paulcmartens]

are we sure?

are we sure WDI designed the track? I'm not. The theming is probably disney, I'll give you that...but if disney did the design, they hold design rights...then, well, I doubt they'd hand those over to a competitor.

disney comissions ride track, I'm sure of it...they would outsource something so complex like that.

 

[ISTCrew20]

Primeval Whirl is also duplicated in another park. Same exact track design, but I don't think it was doubled up like PW.

 

[DisneyFan 2000]

Originally posted by wdwmagic
WDI designed the track layout with vekoma. It wasnt an off the shelf layout.

So why wasn't it exclusive for WDI???

 

[wdwmagic]

Re: are we sure?

Originally posted by paulcmartens
are we sure WDI designed the track? I'm not. The theming is probably disney, I'll give you that...but if disney did the design, they hold design rights...then, well, I doubt they'd hand those over to a competitor.

disney comissions ride track, I'm sure of it...they would outsource something so complex like that.

Yup I am sure on that. I have spoken with a member of WDI who worked on the design. It was certainly in co-operation with Vekoma however, more than just a case of WDI handing over plans and saying "please build us this".

I agree its strange that the coaster was duplicated. Perhaps in these times of cost savings, part of the a cut-price deal was to allow Vekoma to reuse the design. Total speculation of course.

 

[ISTCrew20]

These are only SOME of the coasters that are the same design as Primeval Whirl (each one is different).

Primeval Whirl Imposter #1

Primeval Whirl Imposter #2

Primeval Whirl Imposter #3

Primeval Whirl Imposter #4

Primeval Whirl Imposter #5

ok, thats enough. Compare that to :

The real Primeval Whirl


but it isnt an exact clone: "The Primeval Whirl differs from the standard Reverchon Spinning Mouse. The Disney version has 4 additional cars and a "hidden" transfer/service track. Rather than a parallel transfer/service track inside the roller coaster's perimeter, the transfer track is at the back of the ride and moves the trains into a hidden service area behind the ride and out of the roller coaster's perimeter."

 

[paulcmartens]

Re: Re: are we sure?

Originally posted by wdwmagic
. Perhaps in these times of cost savings, part of the a cut-price deal was to allow Vekoma to reuse the design. Total speculation of course. [/B]

it would have to be that...or since/if it was a joint effort, perhaps a 'not on this continent' clause was written up for vekoma, and they had the freedom to build it anywhere but north america....who knows what happened.

huh...interesting business this 'theme park' business...I knew the smaller stuff (mulhullond madness) was a ride readily available anywhere...but the big stuff...that surprised me when i was researching for track layout.

 

[epcot2004]

Shame on Disney for not protecting that design.

 

[andre85]

Originally posted by epcot2004
Shame on Disney for not protecting that design.

I don’t find it to be that big of a deal. Rockin’ Roller Coaster isn’t just about the ride; it’s the entire theme.

Does Superman have an Aerosmith pre-show? Nope. How about a rock soundtrack? Nope. Hmm, as I recall, Superman also doesn’t have an elaborate queue or themed coaster. Furthermore, I doubt anyone (mostly speaking) would notice the similarities were it not pointed out.

 

[Lee]

It's no big deal.

Though I am surprised Disney allowed the design to be sold elsewhere, very few of the general public are aware of track layout. Thus far, Superman is the only non-Disney application of the rede, even though Vekoma offers it to anyone .

 

[epcot2004]

Originally posted by andre85
I don’t find it to be that big of a deal. Rockin’ Roller Coaster isn’t just about the ride; it’s the entire theme.

Does Superman have an Aerosmith pre-show? Nope. How about a rock soundtrack? Nope. Hmm, as I recall, Superman also doesn’t have an elaborate queue or themed coaster. Furthermore, I doubt anyone (mostly speaking) would notice the similarities were it not pointed out.

Agreed, but part of the Disney experience (at least to me) is what I thought was a totally unique ride. I just don't want the Disney attractins popping up on every corner.

 

[bearboysnc]

Originally posted by paulcmartens
for matterhorn, walt asked arrow to help out...comissioned them if you will, but I'm not aware of arrow turning around and selling the matterhorn design to anyone else...

I may be mistaken, but wasn't the Matterhorn the first to use tubular steel on a steel framework?

Arrow was brought in to fabricate the plans drawn up by Disney. Arrow did go on to sell tubular steel coasters to other companies.

These days parks pretty much go to manufacturers and tell them what features they want in a coaster...ie: batwing, barrel roll.... Theres no real way to "prevent" another park from duplicating the layout of another parks attraction. If they do copy it... who cares? Disney has done enought to RnR, to sufficiently separate it from immitators.

 

[paulcmartens]

yes, arrow is still in the coaster business...but it would be interesting to see if there is a matterhorn like track anywhere in the world (outside of disneyland...)

I'm sure somebody knows.

THEY'RE JUST NOT TELLING!!

 

[KevinPage]

Arrow is barely in business if at all these days. The company is bankrupt, and I may be mistaken was bought by Stan Checketts company.

Last project Arrow sold was X at Magic Mountain and in typical Arrow fashion, turned out to be a maintenance nightmare. This time it happened in a matter of months as opposed to years

 

[Not For Sale]

Arrow Dynamics went bankrupt during the project for building and designing X at 6 Flags Magic Mountain. Soon after S&S Power came and bought Arrow. S&S makes all the power towers and slingshot/deathtrap rides. Arrow Dynamics name is now S&S Arrow. I doubt that Disney will ever use Arrow or S&S now because S&S built the tower ride at IOA.

 

[The_CEO]

Originally posted by Not For Sale
I doubt that Disney will ever use Arrow or S&S now because S&S built the tower ride at IOA.

MaliBOOMer is an S&S tower... right?