Restaurant cutbacks/changes...

[aladdin2007]

I guess you don't have to tell them, but when you check in they ask if you are in a dining plan or tables in wonderland. I guess after reading some of these posts, I should just say no.

Yeah being on TIW we decided never to let them know when checking in, or the server till its time to pay the bill. I just put the card out when the bill comes. Otherwise like others have stated, you get rotten service basically. Its totally uncalled for and for what were paying whether its on the plan or not, they shouldnt ignore you or change their tone/tune, and they do if they know.

Anyone know if they have cut the rolls at the Brown Derby too?......Le Cellier is a complete rip off I dont know why anyone continues to go there. The menu is horrible, the prices, and the food is not even adequate anymore. It use to be one of the best dining locations on property.

 

[Gabe1]

IMO we (the customers) are the ones to blame...continuing to fork over increasingly high prices for diminished experiences only serves to reinforce that management can do whatever they want and we will still keep coming back like mindless cattle. I do agree that DDP has contributed to the downturn but the lionshare of blame rests with the people we see in the mirror. We will go back time and again only to be disappointed in one thing or another...BUT we do still go back and until that changes they have absolutely no reason to think that they cannot squeeze us harder and give us less.

Wish I could like your post more than once.

 

[Gabe1]

I agree. Our upcoming trip is for 8 nights. We have TS meals 4. The places that used to be 'a must' for us have changed so much...like Le Cellier that we no longer bother with those. I have a budget, I stick to the budget, if they keep increasing prices and lowering quality I will not continue to give my money over freely. We are not doing DDP. I wonder what percentage of onsite guests use DDP.

Our trip a few weeks ago we went with the QS dining plan for the first time ever, we have been going with the regualar dining plan for years and years now. We chose our QS meals each day pretty carefully and had some pretty incredible meals, some of which were better than the TS meals we paid out of pocket for.

Are you listening Via Napoli?????????

 

[SteveW]

Good to know about not informing the staff about TIW beforehand. I bought a TIW membership in December and used it every day for a week. There were a couple of times that the service was really lacking and it was after letting them know I had a TIW card. I was there last week and used it twice. The service was so bad on the second meal, I thought about asking for the manager to cut the tip in half.

 

[Dwarful]

Gabe1...thanks for the idea. May I ask, what were some of your favorite QS locations? For us to do the regular dining plan on this trip it would be close to $1700 for our family of four for 7 nights. We always do Seasons and at least one trip to Cosmic Rays...sort of because it has been a tradition since our daughter's first trip at 18 months.

 

[tdpolo26]

You can thank: The Disney Dining Plan and Free dining for the changes.

lets all be honest here ... free dining isn't free... and most there year there is some kind of promotion room at 20 percent off or maybe 30 which somewhat equals free dining
also the dining plan is 60 dollars a day.... its hard to even spend that in some ways... even at your higher priced single credit places its about 40 a person including everything counter service is 15 and snack is 5 dollars.... its a toss up in the end and Disney loves it if you choose the burger for dinner .. I like it cause before I go the whole trip is paid except the tip which I put in envelops ready to go for each day.

How is a promotion that is offered just over 1/4th of the year to blame for disappearing food?

totally agree

When you offer free dining you can't raise food prices to increase profits the only thing you can do is cut costs. You cut costs by removing items that were once included or cut back on portions or quality or some combination of all 3.

now I am not directing this at anyone in general but honestly stop blaming the dining plan ... they have jacked the price of it.... I mean in 2005 the dining plan included everything is does now plus appetizers and it included tip for 35 dollars now its 60 dollars ... so when they want to "raise prices" they take more away.....what the ddp has done is increase reservations and make it difficult for walk in's which I do agree is a problem

Here's my take on it. DDP in general results in a more streamlined, "dumbed down" and generic menu. You can't have one place having significantly more expensive items than others or there will be a run on that restaurant. Items have to fit into pre-set buckets. DDP when it first came out was not as widespread. When they started replacing room rate discounts with free DDP a lot more people started experiencing DDP and table service restaurants. Now even when DDP isn't offered free a lot of people still buy it because that is what they have become accustomed to. Now DDP is so popular that it dominates the restaurant scene. You can't get a walk up table at a lot of restaurants. The menus are a lot more similar. Outside of signatures, restaurants all have a strip steak priced about the same. Without the limits of DDP some might offer a more expensive cut of steak at a higher price. Now since a large portion of customers have already prepaid for their meals there is less of an incentive to offer extras to draw guests in.

I have worked in several restaurants also enjoy several popular shows like nightmare kitchens...honestly what it comes down to is many restaurants have gone to less items... a lot of it is the economy and price fluctuations of the food industry and product going bad. with Disney I am doubting much goes bad.. but wanting to put out a consistent product is much easier when you only have 8 to 10 different products its simple logistics... ddp or not eventually this would be the way... maybe it got this way sooner maybe not due to ddp

btw @GoofGoof I have respect for your opionon and a lot of it i agree with ddp ruining walk in's, but ddp is not the down fall of the restaurants, its Disney... but just look at some of the past favorites ...
what I think has majorly suffered is the quick service places... it is the same burger, chicken, and salad everywhere... to get away from it you have to go to animal kingdom and hit up flame tree bbq which is excellent btw...back in the day china in epcot had excellent counter service now it is just plain strange... not traditional or Americanized.
I do like what they did with the new tapas restaurant in epcot spice road... no ddp (which I don't see as a bad thing and something I think they should try more of in the future... btw for all who wonder I get the ddp everytime normally during free time) and I would even make it no reservations, walk ins only!!! Or maybe do like they did with le collier and make some a two credit expierence and offer that better cut of steak... just a thought
in the end Disney is a machine and what ever they can do to oil that machine and make it spit out more they will do.
btw a lot of people talk about things they don't like here does anyone right Disney ... right now I have a campaign of emails going to them about the removal of the fast pass photographer from the tommorowland dessert party... 26 dollars a person and they cant afford some 10 dollar an hour photographer for 90 min to take some pictures !!!!!!

 

[tdpolo26]

AMEN. Think of your local Hospital... they need "this much" to survive. Whenever they get nailed, cost wise? They increase the costs for those who DO pay...

There is a second SIGNIFICANT DDP effect: NOTHING can appear on the menu that runs over 2 points in remuneration. This effectively "clips" the ability of a fine restaurant to publicly offer a higher end meal - even to those willing to PAY for it.

Fortunately, there are two solutions....

1) Change the terms of DDP: Prix Fixe the menu at a SIG to 2 DDP points - with cash add ons for upgrades (very similar to the Victoria & Albert model).

2) From the consumer end: when SIGS cease to be SIGS? Hit the non Disney owned restaurants. There are MANY on property: Shula's, Fulton's Crab House, Il Mulino. When these run out? Factor in the cost of a 2-way cab ride to OFF property Signature Restaurants. We are rapidly approaching the point where that cab ride, combined with better rates, meets or beats the on Property Disney cost.

its true they do increase the rates ddp 35 dollars with appetizer and tip in 2005... 60 dollars now... trust me Disney wins if you paid out of pocket you would never spend 60 a day... it the people that pay cash that kill it if you ask me they might only spend 40 dollars cause who eats all the desserts if they have to pay cash for it personally I would split mine.. I do get the free ddp but many times the 20 to 30 percent off the rack rate can be a better deal..
but I like your idea of a upgrade fee many restaurants have that ... or maybe some none ddp choices and certain restaurants ...but in the end they raise the prices for all....in some ways we all pay

 

[draybook]

While free dining isn't free, it's a much better savings than room only discount for our family of four.

 

[laynalee07]

We put pen to paper a few trips ago and discovered that the dining plan doesn't pay for itself for us... We go several times a year, so we have found that the TiW is what works best for us.
But I will definetly not inform the waiter beforehand anymore that we are TiW. We had mediocre to poor service at Mama Melrose, Ohana, and Rose and Crown because of it
Also our dining at Whispering Canyon was a little off. Our waitress spilled our coffee all over our table while pouring it, dropped our sausage links (which rolled around the table) and picked them up with the tongs and put them back on our plate, and slaughtered our biscuits while trying to pick them up with the tongs( and I seriously mean completely crumbled them up!) and still put them on our plates.
The only thing I could do was look at my husband funny and just chuckle. Ha
It was some of those moments that I just wanted to say "REALLY!", but the situation was to awkward.

 

[GoofGoof]

lets all be honest here ... free dining isn't free... and most there year there is some kind of promotion room at 20 percent off or maybe 30 which somewhat equals free dining
also the dining plan is 60 dollars a day.... its hard to even spend that in some ways... even at your higher priced single credit places its about 40 a person including everything counter service is 15 and snack is 5 dollars.... its a toss up in the end and Disney loves it if you choose the burger for dinner .. I like it cause before I go the whole trip is paid except the tip which I put in envelops ready to go for each day.


totally agree


now I am not directing this at anyone in general but honestly stop blaming the dining plan ... they have jacked the price of it.... I mean in 2005 the dining plan included everything is does now plus appetizers and it included tip for 35 dollars now its 60 dollars ... so when they want to "raise prices" they take more away.....what the ddp has done is increase reservations and make it difficult for walk in's which I do agree is a problem


I have worked in several restaurants also enjoy several popular shows like nightmare kitchens...honestly what it comes down to is many restaurants have gone to less items... a lot of it is the economy and price fluctuations of the food industry and product going bad. with Disney I am doubting much goes bad.. but wanting to put out a consistent product is much easier when you only have 8 to 10 different products its simple logistics... ddp or not eventually this would be the way... maybe it got this way sooner maybe not due to ddp

btw @GoofGoof I have respect for your opionon and a lot of it i agree with ddp ruining walk in's, but ddp is not the down fall of the restaurants, its Disney... but just look at some of the past favorites ...
what I think has majorly suffered is the quick service places... it is the same burger, chicken, and salad everywhere... to get away from it you have to go to animal kingdom and hit up flame tree bbq which is excellent btw...back in the day china in epcot had excellent counter service now it is just plain strange... not traditional or Americanized.
I do like what they did with the new tapas restaurant in epcot spice road... no ddp (which I don't see as a bad thing and something I think they should try more of in the future... btw for all who wonder I get the ddp everytime normally during free time) and I would even make it no reservations, walk ins only!!! Or maybe do like they did with le collier and make some a two credit expierence and offer that better cut of steak... just a thought
in the end Disney is a machine and what ever they can do to oil that machine and make it spit out more they will do.
btw a lot of people talk about things they don't like here does anyone right Disney ... right now I have a campaign of emails going to them about the removal of the fast pass photographer from the tommorowland dessert party... 26 dollars a person and they cant afford some 10 dollar an hour photographer for 90 min to take some pictures !!!!!!

It's a fair point that DDP is not the only cause for cutbacks, but I do think it has had some impact. I agree with your point that the quick service has suffered most. It definitely hurts walk up availability.

 

[BuddyThomas]

Wow...you ate for two solid hours....I am impressed....yet you still felt obliged to stiff the waiter!

What he said.

 

[BuddyThomas]

The waiter was stiffed because SHE did not do her job. SHE did not bring our food, nor refill our drinks. The manager is the one that did once I complained. SHE earned ZERO tip because SHE was a terrible server. All of this is clearly indicated in my original post! I suggest you learn how to read.

You've never worked in a restaurant, have you? If you have, you would know that they employ people called "food runners". These are the people that will deliver your food, and this phenomena generally takes place at large busy restaurants. This is why your waitress did not deliver your food. But when you stiffed her, she still had to tip out the food runner.

Since you gave her nothing, she paid the food runner from her own pocket. If you ordered bar drinks or were seated by a hostess (or host) or had a busboy (or girl), the waitress had to tip those people out as well. This means she actually PAID money to wait on you. How delightful.

As to the rest of your bad service, I cannot comment, but seriously, unless she spit in your face and called you an unprintable name when you sat down, think about taking the high road and at least tip 10% or so.

You don't know what was going on at the restaurant that was beyond her control. Did someone call in sick? Was she new? Learning the ropes? Was the support staff not supportive?

Yeah I get it. This is not your problem and truly, bad service when you are spending any chunk of change SUCKS. But always remember that your waiter makes less than minimum wage and depends on tips to live.

 

[RevKjb]

[COUNTDOWN=13/10/2014]to our check in at OKW[/COUNTDOWN]

 

[Cesar R M]

While free dining isn't free, it's a much better savings than room only discount for our family of four.

Its clear people have to check and balance to see what is convenient for them.
Still adds another layer of complexity imho.
Like I said before..As things goes further and more complex, Disney will become a place where the only way to enjoy fully... will be by sporting a PhD in statistics, Management, IT and Accounting. ( Statistics to ensure you always get to the best day and check on risks, Management to be able to use your FP+ and time the best way, IT to manage my magic and the hidden things or complex things in the system, And accounting to review which is the best for your wallet comparing all the variations)

 

[GoofGoof]

Ok so here's my 2 cents on the zero tip debate:

There are time when the service you receive is not worthy of a tip at all. These are very limited situations where the server is directly rude to you or acts in a completely unprofessional manner. There are many times when something can happen in a restaurant that is not acceptable and should be brought to the attention of management. These situations should not automatically result in a zero tip. Lots of things happen in a restaurant that are both in and out of the control of the wait staff. If your food takes too long to come out, comes out cold or prepared wrong or you get the wrong dish it's not automatically the waiter's fault. There could be issues in the kitchen or other things going on beyond the waiter's control. As someone earlier pointed out in a busy restaurant they often use food runners so your waiter may not be the one bringing you the food. This isn't a sign of bad service on their part, just the way the restaurant has elected to bring food out. If you have an issue you should bring it up to your waiter when it happens and if it's something major ask to speak to the manager. If there are issues with the kitchen the manager should offer to comp the item that was impacted or make you whole in some way. You shouldn't make yourself whole by saying nothing and then just stiffing the waiter. If you don't complain the manager will never know there was an issue and it will never get fixed. If you do get an item comped from your bill but it wasn't your waiter's fault you should still tip based on a full bill not your reduced bill. These are all my opinions based on some prior life work experience. Remember that tips are not a bonus or extra perk for the waiter, most work for less than minimum wage and depend on tips.

In this specific case mentioned I wasn't there so I can't judge @disney4life2008. He said that he had to bring the issue up to the manager so that seems to be a pretty big issue and the proper way to address the problem. Without being there it's hard for anyone to say that a zero tip was not warranted. If the waiter was directly rude or completely unprofessional they may have deserved to be stiffed. If the service is just slow and you really feel it's at least partially the waiter's fault it's Ok to reduce your tip too without going to zero.

 

[flynnibus]

now I am not directing this at anyone in general but honestly stop blaming the dining plan ... they have jacked the price of it.... I mean in 2005 the dining plan included everything is does now plus appetizers and it included tip for 35 dollars now its 60 dollars ... so when they want to "raise prices" they take more away.....what the ddp has done is increase reservations and make it difficult for walk in's which I do agree is a problem

Raising the price of something that people do not actually buy is a tactic used to inflate the perceived value of something when you give it away. I give you something worth $5 you think.. 'big deal'... I give you something priced at $50 'oh wow, thanks!'. Nevermind it only cost me $5...

I have worked in several restaurants also enjoy several popular shows like nightmare kitchens...honestly what it comes down to is many restaurants have gone to less items... a lot of it is the economy and price fluctuations of the food industry and product going bad. with Disney I am doubting much goes bad.. but wanting to put out a consistent product is much easier when you only have 8 to 10 different products its simple logistics... ddp or not eventually this would be the way... maybe it got this way sooner maybe not due to ddp

The effect of the DDP is that the restaurant must continue to make it's profit margins on a 'fixed income'. If the guys in the Ivory Tower say "you only get $10/head for each DDP patron" - you have to make your menu work at that cost point. You don't get to say "well, I'll make more over here, and less over here" - nope your income is fixed! When certain costs start to increase, you don't get to say "hey, if the person orders plateX, can I get more money?". The result of this is everyone looks to drive down costs... that means homogenization of offerings to leverage shared costs... you reduce the size of the menu..

 

[Cesar R M]

Raising the price of something that people do not actually buy is a tactic used to inflate the perceived value of something when you give it away. I give you something worth $5 you think.. 'big deal'... I give you something priced at $50 'oh wow, thanks!'. Nevermind it only cost me $5...



The effect of the DDP is that the restaurant must continue to make it's profit margins on a 'fixed income'. If the guys in the Ivory Tower say "you only get $10/head for each DDP patron" - you have to make your menu work at that cost point. You don't get to say "well, I'll make more over here, and less over here" - nope your income is fixed! When certain costs start to increase, you don't get to say "hey, if the person orders plateX, can I get more money?". The result of this is everyone looks to drive down costs... that means homogenization of offerings to leverage shared costs... you reduce the size of the menu..

Arent these techniques known as "bait" product? or bait price in most consumerism careers ?
Where they put 2 products on display with a perceived value and then add one with a jacked up price or smaller size as a bait product, forcing the people to automatically have their brain switch to "that one is more convenient.. what a deal" mode.

 

[Cesar R M]

Anyone wanna predict how many more seconds until the lock occurs?

I think a clean up will happen first, because the whole thread was a legit talk until this poser started to post about his "incredible" life .

 

[tdpolo26]

Raising the price of something that people do not actually buy is a tactic used to inflate the perceived value of something when you give it away. I give you something worth $5 you think.. 'big deal'... I give you something priced at $50 'oh wow, thanks!'. Nevermind it only cost me $5...

I am not totally sure what you are getting at here(not trying to be rude at all) unless you mean why free ddp isn't the deal everyone imagines it is... cause I agree.. but there are many people who pay full price for it with there 10 to 20 percent off room and 5 percent off theme park tickets from a discount site
many people use room rate discount and still eat at restaurants and its cheaper they cut the drink and dessert.. me personally I like going in fall for food and wine and if they are going to throw in some "free food" throw it at me. lol

The effect of the DDP is that the restaurant must continue to make it's profit margins on a 'fixed income'. If the guys in the Ivory Tower say "you only get $10/head for each DDP patron" - you have to make your menu work at that cost point. You don't get to say "well, I'll make more over here, and less over here" - nope your income is fixed! When certain costs start to increase, you don't get to say "hey, if the person orders plateX, can I get more money?". The result of this is everyone looks to drive down costs... that means homogenization of offerings to leverage shared costs... you reduce the size of the menu..

since the raise the price every year they get there money.... not to mention they are guaranteed the money.... which I am sure is what they want ...plus how many snack credits and other things go unused. also not everyone gets the highest price things on the menu... plus add it up... dinner 36 dollars... dessert 5 and drink 3.00 that's 44 bucks 12 dollars for a quick service and 5 for a snack ... the savings isn't there for the most part. It just makes your vacation all inclusive. plus free dining is prolly less then 10 percent of guest per year.. that should not swing the budget of every restaurant... which is full everyday all day


for the most part I really believe ddp messes reservations up and not the type of food served..

declining quality and selection are based on demand ... demand is high all year with or without dining plans. if a restaurant has high demand they cut items to streamline the kitchen... look at olive garden that place cut the menu in half... and other places are following suit... it is much better to do 8 items well then 16 mediocre
also I feel as the many places lost there spark... ohana has declined so much... and not just offerings like chicken being gone... when chef tj sawadawa (spelled it wrong) several years ago before he went to the grand Floridian. he reformatted the menu and everything was terrific... we went in 2011 and it was still on par with 2007. on our last trip in 2012 the chicken wings were mushy, the dumplings tasted of old oil... and the meats were dry... that is just bad cooking.. and its evident all over the park with upkeep... Disney needs to get back to basics and watch the little things. trust me they aren't losing money at those restaurants at those prices
"free dining isn't free it bears a price..like the gym membership I need to mop up the calories post trip... feels like the college 15 put on in 1 week"

 

[Master Yoda]

for the most part I really believe ddp messes reservations up and not the type of food served..

Based on conversations I have had with a couple of the third party restaurant owners, this is incorrect.

Disney basically pays a restaurant a flat fee for a table service DDP meal. That flat fee becomes the ceiling for what a restaurant can offer. Richard Debler, the owner of La Hacienda and San Angel, tole me exactly that. He stated that they really cant put anything better than a small, low quality NY Strip on the menu. A fillet would exceed the ceiling for a 1 credit restaurant.

That leaves them with 2 options. Cut back on the quality or go to signature.

In regards to artificially inflated prices, you need to look no further then the buffets and character meals and how their prices are completely out of control. The price for an adult at Akershus can exceed $55 for dinner. Boma can exceed $42 for an adult for dinner.

You can currently dine on fillet at Jiko for what Akershus would cost you.

Either Jiko is loosing money on every guest, or the buffets prices have been jacked up to easily increase the perceived value of the DDP.