Required DLR Annual report to be approved by the Anaheim City Council on Dec. 5th

[Darkbeer1]

As expected, Dr. Moreno pulled Item 8 for discussion,

He basically made a 10 minute political speech, and then voted for approval. It passed 6-0, with Councilmember Barnes abstaining, since her husband works for ABC (conflict of interest).

 

[NobodyElse]

You would think that Disney would pay to have those lines put underground. Its a very common practice to get rid of those large towers.

We've wondered about that since back in the parking lot to DCA conversion days. We've seen many examples of local lines, (even fairly major ones line on Harbor or State College) being buried, but I'm unaware of major transmission lines like the ones we're talking about being relocated underground. Some of us wondered if there were limitations to what could be put underground, or if the infrastructure required was just too costly.

If you've got examples of big transmission lines like these being buried, I'd really appreciate hearing about or seeing them. Thanks!

 

[flynnibus]

The need for high power lines like this will go away as will most power companies that generate the power.

I lol'd

 

[Darkbeer1]

I know it is possible, but very expensive. The more voltage, the more heat is created.

Exposing the wires to the open air allows easy and fast cooling. The "tunnels" would have to be large, the wires are also a lot larger in underground use, plus the need to run cooling plants every so many feet.

Disney tried to get the city to find a way to bury them, and would more than likely forced the city owned utility company to have a massive fee increase, which would not be acceptable to the residents and other businesses.

Today, we are looking at over a Billion dollars to do it.

 

[flynnibus]

We've wondered about that since back in the parking lot to DCA conversion days. We've seen many examples of local lines, (even fairly major ones line on Harbor or State College) being buried, but I'm unaware of major transmission lines like the ones we're talking about being relocated underground. Some of us wondered if there were limitations to what could be put underground, or if the infrastructure required was just too costly.

If you've got examples of big transmission lines like these being buried, I'd really appreciate hearing about or seeing them. Thanks!

The high voltage transmission stuff especially is problematic. And the lifespan of the underground stuff is shortened... so it's all three... technical... practical ... and cost.... limitations.

Remember.... there is a reason those towers are so tall... and it's not just to clear trees

 

[Darkbeer1]

http://articles.latimes.com/1993-06-23/news/mn-6332_1_walt-disney

>>* Utility lines: The ugly overhead power lines that stretch across the Disneyland parking lot will be buried, along with just about every other utility line in the area. The city has a special fund set aside to relocate lines underground. An undetermined amount of money will have to be found, however, to pay for burying those owned by Southern California Edison and other utilities.<<

http://www.renewableenergyworld.com/articles/2009/03/why-dont-we-bury-more-power-lines.html

>>But the real limiting factor is that the cost of ditching and burying lines can be more than US $10 per foot. In fact, the state Public Service Commission staff found that burying Louisiana's utility lines to protect them from hurricane-force winds could cost $70 billion — far too much for the state's 2 million electricity customers to pay. Plans to go underground often hit a brick wall nationally, because burying existing overhead power lines costs about 10-15 times more than stringing them from poles. <<

>>In Florida and North Carolina, statewide initiatives to bury power lines would have prompted a rate increase of 80 to 125 percent, according to a report by the Edison Electric Institute, the utility industry trade group.<<

So if Disney has to pay for the costs directly, what would you prefer... The new Galaxy Edge land or the removal of the power lines? I think the decision is a no brainer.

 

[Phroobar]

Chino Hills had the problem with Edison putting up huge transmission towers within feet of people's houses. The city fought Edison over it and won. The transmission towers were relocated and the towers they put up were taken down. It was a huge victory. How would you like one of those things within ten feet of your backyard with the wires directly overhead? One good earth quake and it comes tumbling down on your head not to mention the long term health effects.

 

[Disney Irish]

We've wondered about that since back in the parking lot to DCA conversion days. We've seen many examples of local lines, (even fairly major ones line on Harbor or State College) being buried, but I'm unaware of major transmission lines like the ones we're talking about being relocated underground. Some of us wondered if there were limitations to what could be put underground, or if the infrastructure required was just too costly.

If you've got examples of big transmission lines like these being buried, I'd really appreciate hearing about or seeing them. Thanks!

PG&E started a program years ago (under the guidance of the CPUC) to do it with a lot of the transmission lines here in the Bay Area. The goal if I remember correctly (this was the 80s/90s) was to convert over 90% overhead to underground.

The program is still going on today:

https://www.pge.com/en_US/residenti...-program/electric-undergrounding-program.page

As @Darkbeer1 indicated it is possible but it can be costly which is probably why it hasn't been done already. If Disney ever feels the need to use that land where the lines exist then they'll probably get buried and be rolled into the cost of the project.

 

[Darkbeer1]

Anaheim has an underground plan (Started in 1990), and we pay a 4% surcharge to make it happen.

https://www.anaheim.net/972/Underground-Conversion

But it does not include the SoCal Edison lines, as that is a different agency.

I have overhead standard residential lines in my back yard, and see them when I look out my office window on the second floor. It is great to watch the squirrels using them as roadways... Right now there is one lone bird using them as a perch.

Our lines have not made the plan, which only looks at 5 years into the future.

 

[NobodyElse]

Thanks everybody. I was questioning the "very common practice" part, as that's not my limited experience growing up here in southern California.

When DCA went in, the lines were re-routed, and the old four-legged towers were replaced by the newer, slightly more elegant single-pole variants. It seemed clear at the time, that if burying the lines was even a reasonably feasible option, they would have done it then.

 

[Phroobar]

Here is what they looked like Chino Hills before removal.

 

[Darkbeer1]

Interesting they let the house be built under those lines. We have a large set of high power lines just a few blocks from us, no housing has ever been allowed to be built under them. In the area, we have parks, sports field, a golf course, a lot of nurseries and a koi fishery. I am probably missing something, but clearly open space use. Our housing development was built in the 1960's, so it has been a long standing policy in the city of Anaheim.

 

[Phroobar]

Interesting they let the house be built under those lines. We have a large set of high power lines just a few blocks from us, no housing has ever been allowed to be built under them. In the area, we have parks, sports field, a golf course, a lot of nurseries and a koi fishery. I am probably missing something, but clearly open space use. Our housing development was built in the 1960's, so it has been a long standing policy in the city of Anaheim.

It was the other way around. The houses were there first. It was part of the Tehachapi Renewable Transmission Project and also Edison being A - holes.

 

[Darkbeer1]

It was the other way around. The houses were there first. It was part of the Tehachapi Renewable Transmission Project and also Edison being A - holes.

Then Edison should have had to do it originally. Dumb move, actually a very dumb decision.

 

[Phroobar]

Agreed. Those houses were built in the 90's while Edison put up the polls about few years ago or so. I believe they rerouted through Carbon Canyon Regional park instead and buried a lot of it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hope_for_the_Hills
https://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/...o-Hills-Power-Line-Controversy-147851235.html
https://www.chinohills.org/index.aspx?NID=836

 

[Ismael Flores]

Edison tried to do the same thing where I live. They wanted to run main power lines over the neighborhood. This whole area has no overhead lines to begin with everything is underground. They lost of course and had to reroute them several miles around and still had problems when they tried running them over a wildlife sanctuary.