Religious services scaled back at Disney

TURKEY

New Member
Original Poster
Religious services scaled back at Disney
By Mark I. Pinsky and Robert Johnson
Sentinel Staff Writers

December 25, 2002

Walt Disney World doesn't advertise its theme parks as the holiest place on earth -- just the happiest.

Still, some religious leaders are dismayed and disappointed that, after today's popular Christmas services at the Contemporary Resort, the next organized Christian worship at the resort will not take place until Easter.

Citing space problems, and concerns about fairness, the giant resort has stopped the regular Sunday services for Protestant and Catholic visitors that had been held at the Polynesian Luau area since 1975. Christmas and Easter services will continue.

"It no longer seemed appropriate to only offer two options for worship to our guests," said Rena Callahan, a Disney spokeswoman.

"As our guest population has grown, so has the diversity of cultures that visit our theme parks," she said. "Places of worship that have grown up around our property are best suited to meet the wide array of spiritual needs of our guests."

But the Rev. Richard Land, president of the Southern Baptist Convention's Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission, had a different interpretation.

"This is just one further step away from what once was a core constituency of religiously motivated, 'family values' clientele," he said.

Disney's decision, he said, is "more a matter of indifference than hostility," reflecting "a lack of comprehension of how the real country lives and what's important to them."

Other conservative Christian groups, such as Colorado-based Focus on the Family and the Washington, D.C.-based Traditional Values Coalition, have also criticized Disney's decision to end the services.

No regular religious services are conducted at Disneyland in California, and there are no chapels on either of the Disney cruise ships, according to company officials, nor are there any generic church facades on Main Street, USA.

Disney World still had separate Christmas Day services scheduled for this morning. A Protestant service was set for 9 a.m. and a Catholic service was set for 10:15 a.m., both in the Contemporary Resort's Fantasia Ballroom.

But such services will now be rarities.

Because SeaWorld and Universal Orlando don't offer church services, that leaves the relatively tiny Holy Land Experience as the only local theme park with regular services. Holy Land offers free admission on Thursday nights to a nondenominational gathering. It also offers a special New Year's Eve service that includes a talk by the Rev. Marvin Rosenthal, the park's founder. "We wanted to have something spiritual for people who aren't partying," he said.

At Disney World, two Catholic Masses and one nondenominational Protestant service had been conducted every Sunday morning since 1975.

Last summer, however, a shortage of priests caused the Rev. Joseph Harte of Mary, Queen of the Universe Catholic Shrine, to reduce the number of Masses at Walt Disney World to one. When that happened, the single service at the Polynesian became too crowded, and some worshippers had to be turned away. That, in turn, led to a decision by Disney and the local Catholic diocese to end the Mass entirely and urge visiting Catholics to attend services at Mary, Queen of the Universe, which had been built in the meantime specifically to serve tourists.

The decision, said Harte, was entirely amicable.

"Disney's business is entertainment, and they're very good at it," said Carol Brinati, a spokeswoman for the Diocese of Orlando. "The 'business' of the Catholic Church is to proclaim the word of God. It's up to us, as Christians, to find the appropriate services."

The Protestant services were conducted by a rotating group of six volunteer pastors, according to Robert Stuart of the Christian Service Center, a downtown social service agency that organized the services.

The Protestant services drew between 25 and 250 worshippers, he said. Donations from that service, which went to the Christian Service Center, averaged $15,000 a year.

Mark I. Pinsky can be reached at mpinsky@orlandosentinel.com or 407-420-5589. Robert Johnson can be reached at 407-420-5664 or rwjohnson@orlandosentinel.com.
Copyright © 2002, Orlando Sentinel


http://www.orlandosentinel.com/busi...5,0,5200508.story?coll=orl-business-headlines
 

SpongeScott

Well-Known Member
Originally posted by turkey leg boy

But the Rev. Richard Land, president of the Southern Baptist Convention's Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission, had a different interpretation.

"This is just one further step away from what once was a core constituency of religiously motivated, 'family values' clientele," he said.
Sometimes I'm embarrassed to admit that I am also a Southern Baptist. First, the stupid boycott from the SB's and now statements like this. I don't go to WDW or look to WDW for my religious fulfillments. I go to have a good time with my family and if I choose to do something on a churchy level, then I can take care of that in our own private, family way. Disney still stands head-and-shoulders above most other institutions for family values and I completely agree with Disney's stance on this issue.
 

Pioneer Hall

Well-Known Member
I think Disney is very right in doing this. If they can't accomadate to everyone then they will eventually have a problem. There are too many different groups of people who come to Walt Disney World to accomodate everyone. So instead of accomodating a few and possibly having a problem from people of other faiths, now they don't have to worry about it since there are no services. No one can complain. Disney will still tell you where to go for any type of service you are looking for, you just have to ask at Guest Services at the resort.

With that...Happy Holidays (whatever you observe)!
 

Belle_kg

New Member
MERRY CHRISTMAS!!!!!
Speaking of church and Our Lady Queen of the Universe Shrine...can anyone give me quick and easy directions to this church from the All Star resorts, because I will have to be going there twice in my trip that is coming up!
 

Javier&Christie

New Member
Originally posted by DisneyInsider
I think Disney is very right in doing this. If they can't accomadate to everyone then they will eventually have a problem. There are too many different groups of people who come to Walt Disney World to accomodate everyone. So instead of accomodating a few and possibly having a problem from people of other faiths, now they don't have to worry about it since there are no services.

I concur, there's plenty of churches in the surrounding area.. no reason for Disney to end up in some stupid "discrimination" lawsuit by some sue happy individual b/c they didn't offer their particular worship service.
 

wahooskipper

New Member
I think this is ridiculous. If they didn't have a venue that could fit all of the worshippers, that would be one thing. But to cancel them because they can't accommodate every other faith of the world is goofy.

I guess I will just have to go to Cedar Point in Ohio which still holds a Catholic Mass every Sunday during the season.
 

BRER STITCH

Well-Known Member
Well....I guess I'll weigh in on this issue too with my two cents!

Whatever is said about the issue, I can assure you this: it was a HUGE convenience to be able to attend services on the property!!!

While I don't believe Disney has an OBLIGATION to cater to every religion, I must point out they are ARE in the Customer Service business and this was a service their customers wanted, as judged by the attendance at the services.

All I can say is....it's pretty difficult and/or costly to get to a church off-site when you are staying on the Disney property without a car! Maybe Disney could have a bus for off-site services on Sunday mornings. Or, better still, build a Multi-denominational worship building closer to Downtown Disney that their transportation system already serves.

With 24 hours in a day and seven days a week, I think its pretty safe to assume EVERY religion that so desired could easily be served for an hour or two at a time at such a location. Keep in mind, as a public use facility, Disney could also collect a "rental fee" from those who reserve it if they desired to pay for upkeep and costs associated with the building.

When not in use for religious activities, it could always be used for conferences, meetings, exhibits, etc....

--------------------

CAN I GET AN AMEN??? HAHA! :)
 

niteobsrvr

Well-Known Member
I think Disney has done the right thing here. The idea of providing for everyone or not providing for anyone at all is not new in our society. Remember when you got caught eating in class in elementary school? What did the teacher say? Something to the effect of if you dont have enough for everyone then don't bring any at all.

Disney is first and foremost in the entertainment business and that should be their focus. Offering church services was nice but has nothing to do with entertainment. I would like to beleive that people of any religion are independent enough to practice their faith on their own accord for one service missed while on vacation at Disney or anywhere else for that matter.

An interesting study I ran across inthe news a week or so ago states that Amercans rank religion as more important than almost any other country. I thought this was kind of amazing since the original settlers came here to avoid religous persecution. I also find it kind of amazing how we quickly associate other religions with conflicts in the world but never do we lump oursleves in the same group.

Some people will inevitably take my comments the wrong way so let me say that I respect and value everyones right to practice their faith or religion. However, I beleive this is a very personal matter that each individual should address on their own during everyday life and while on vacation.
 

Belle_kg

New Member
I'm not sure what religion you or, nor does it really make a difference, but I am Catholic, and we have an obligation to attend mass once a week on Saturday evening or Sunday. Just because I take a vacation to Disney or anywhere else does not give me the option of skipping mass (unless there is absolutely no catholic church around or I can't get there). I'm not sure what kind of obligations other religions are held to, but personally, I think I need to go to church more than ever when I am in Disney because God blessed me enough to be there.

Regardless, I very much enjoyed the convenience or having a Catholic mass on Disney property, but it will not kill me to drive a little bit to Our Lady Queen of the Universe for mass!

You are right, though, that it is a personal decision that each person has to make on there own.

32 hours and counting til I invade the world!!!!


Originally posted by niteobsrvr

I would like to beleive that people of any religion are independent enough to practice their faith on their own accord for one service missed while on vacation at Disney or anywhere else for that matter.


Some people will inevitably take my comments the wrong way so let me say that I respect and value everyones right to practice their faith or religion. However, I beleive this is a very personal matter that each individual should address on their own during everyday life and while on vacation.
 

BRER STITCH

Well-Known Member
Again, I'll repeat an important point. Like it or not, Disney is in the Customer Service business. If they were strictly in entertainment, they wouldn't have restaurants, spas, hundreds of retail outlets, fire departments, hotels, etc.....These are all customer services, which, for some MAY be entertaining as well.

They have restaurants because people want to eat.....they have stores because people want to shop, they have hotels so people can sleep and stay, etc...

If people wanted a midnight circus bad enough, you can bet Disney would have one. It's about gioving the people what they want, and Disney has made a considerable profit doing so. I predict the policy on religious services will change if and when the demand is strong enough. Disney cannot disregard what their customers are asking for. It's not good business.

The services they provide now are all profit makers for Disney. Could it be that they are just trying to figure out how to make religious services profitable without looking like the bad guy? they may answer the needs of their Customers with a new proposal that allows them to provide this service without any added expense to them. That is good business.

Disney could (and should IMO) make available a location and collect a "rental fee" from those who reserve it in order to pay for up keep and costs associated with the program. Pay per use is a common practicein the convention and meeting department so it is nothing really new to them. The important thing is, another need is satisfied. Thats what SERVICE is all about!


:xmas:
 

niteobsrvr

Well-Known Member
Originally posted by BRER STITCH

Disney could (and should IMO) make available a location and collect a "rental fee" from those who reserve it in order to pay for up keep and costs associated with the program. Pay per use is a common practicein the convention and meeting department so it is nothing really new to them. The important thing is, another need is satisfied. Thats what SERVICE is all about!

Disney can and does make space available to anyone on a pay to use basis. Thats why there are so many convention and meeting spaces on property. For that matter, pretty much any part of the Disney parks and resorts is for rent if the price is right.

I am sure Disney would be more than happy to provide any of their meeting spaces to any religion who is willing to rent them. Apparently from the articles written about the cancellation of services, no religion has stepped in to actually rent meeting space.

BTW, if Disney were really trying to figure out how to make religious services profitable they would just buy one of the several religious broadcasting networks out there, set up a not for profit corporation and move the studios to Walt Disney World where the network would have to pay high rents for a myriad of services to Disney thus creating the profit factor for the company.
 

SnowWhite5669

New Member
Ok- if our children can not pray in schools why does DISNEY have to provide a forum for religious services? I can understand if you are obligated to go to "pray" but who says it has to be in a church? My husband is a lecter in a Roman Catholic Church and he doesn't feel the "obligation" to go to services when we are on vacation. He simply takes a few minutes quiet time and prays and he is constantly thanking GOD for all we have. I really don't think you will burn in hell if you miss a few services while on vacation.
 

Belle_kg

New Member
I am not going to preach to anyone on here or anything, but just as a reminder, if you are a Catholic, the obligation to attend mass on Sunday and Holy Days is there whether you feel the obligation or not. I 100% agree that a person will not burn in hell for missing a few masses while on vacation, but that will most definitely not bring you any closer to God either. However, this has absolutely nothing to do with Disney World, so I will stop here and say that everyone has free will to do what they choose & I choose to leave to go to Disney World in 11 hours (and go to mass on Saturday evening and Jan. 1st :) )


Originally posted by SnowWhite5669
I can understand if you are obligated to go to "pray" but who says it has to be in a church? My husband is a lecter in a Roman Catholic Church and he doesn't feel the "obligation" to go to services when we are on vacation. He simply takes a few minutes quiet time and prays and he is constantly thanking GOD for all we have. I really don't think you will burn in hell if you miss a few services while on vacation.
 

One Lil Spark

EPCOT Center Defender
I love the idea of a non~denominational "area" somewhere for religions of every kind to do their thing. I don't think in Downtown Disney is the greatest place for it though. Can't you just picture going to church or to worship and seeing "Pleasure Island" right next to you?? Not something that Disney wants to deal with! :p
 

prberk

Well-Known Member
Look, most of the resort meeting space, including the Luau Cove and almost all Downtown Disney clubs, as well as other areas are completely available on Sunday mornings, and sometimes other times. A coordinated use of space by the denominations that wanted to lead services would be available, especially for the ones already doing it.

I am especially concerned for the protestant service organization that was dropped without notice, even though it was well known that the offerings were used for the homeless services in Orlando.

The catholic priest shortage was a different problem, and should not have affected the others' experience.

Disney should (as a customer service) provide it if they can, and the fact is that they can, at no cost as they were. Even tell the group that they are responsible for cleanup.

People who fly in and stay on property, as Disney encourages, may have no other place to go. Besides, once off property, they are more likely to stay off property for at least their next meal, and maybe a little trip to Sea World.... hmmmmmm..... But if services are on property, hmmmmm..... :animwink:
 

Yellow Shoes

Well-Known Member
Originally posted by BRER STITCH
Maybe Disney could have a bus for off-site services on Sunday mornings.



What if individual churches offered transportation to their services? Seems more fair to me.

If Disney offered transportation to different churches, why not also offer it to different theme parks, or hotels, or restaurants?

Sounds like a slippery slope to me
 

BRER STITCH

Well-Known Member
Originally posted by Yellow Shoes
What if individual churches offered transportation to their services? Seems more fair to me.

If Disney offered transportation to different churches, why not also offer it to different theme parks, or hotels, or restaurants?

Sounds like a slippery slope to me

:hammer: :brick: :hammer: :brick:

Well....to continue beating this issue to death......

Last I checked, the churches don't own their own transportation system - Disney does.
Even if they did,would Disney want countless vans or busses from off property adding to their already busy resort roads?

When in WDW, I am not a guest of the local church, I am a guest of Disneys.

Using your argument, if churches were allowed to drive all over the properties to pick up guests, then I guess other theme parks restaurants, and hotels WOULD be allowed to do the same.

No slippery slope involved here.....just good customer service.

But that's already been addressed above.............

:)
 

Wilt Dasney

Well-Known Member
"It no longer seemed appropriate to only offer two options for worship to our guests," said Rena Callahan, a Disney spokeswoman.


So let's just offer none...sounds perfectly reasonable to me. Never mind that the two which were offered reresented the two most adhered-to branches of faith in this country. The logic here is that if we can only accomodate 75-80% of the people here, then we'd rather just accomodate nobody. Way to go, Disney.
 

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