News Reflections – A Disney Lakeside Lodge (Project 89 - Development near Fort Wilderness)

peter11435

peter11435

Well-Known Member
trainplane3 said:
I can't remember, is Pioneer Hall going to be demo'd for this? It'd be a shame since I love the small, "no bad seat in the house" design. I'd assume Hoop De Doo would stay no matter what.

I probably should've worded like this instead: Is Pioneer Hall in the scope of the permit?
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In the original proposal, No. however that was many years ago and plans may have changed.
 
Sirwalterraleigh

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
peter11435 said:
Adding more accommodations doesn’t increase attendance.
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...but it does...when it’s dvc.

It’s not like people would stay there instead of POP...it will be higher frequency repeat customers...

And even if somebody buys instead of pop...now those rooms at pop get backfilled?

I only did this professionally before...so I’m thoroughly confused 🤯
 
M

mj2v

Well-Known Member
Sirwalterraleigh said:
...but it does...when it’s dvc.

It’s not like people would stay there instead of POP...it will be higher frequency repeat customers...

And even if somebody buys instead of pop...now those rooms at pop get backfilled?

I only did this professionally before...so I’m thoroughly confused 🤯
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You seem to forget that there are about 120,000 hotel rooms in orlando.

https://loyaltytraveler.boardingarea.com/2013/10/09/top-ten-u-s-cities-by-hotel-rooms/

They could build 20 more DVC properties and still have a negligible impact on overall attendance.

DVC people tend to also use the pools and hotel amenities more than hotel guests.
 
Sirwalterraleigh

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
mj2v said:
You seem to forget that there are about 120,000 hotel rooms in orlando.

https://loyaltytraveler.boardingarea.com/2013/10/09/top-ten-u-s-cities-by-hotel-rooms/

They could build 20 more DVC properties and still have a negligible impact on overall attendance.

DVC people tend to also use the pools and hotel amenities more than hotel guests.
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I’m not forgetting the 400 outside hotels at all...

DVC isn’t pulling from there, honestly.

It’s near 100% occupancy and the people of “steals” are replenished from the feeders before you can blink.

It’s not like somebody says:

“Hmmmm, kids, are we going to the clarion inn at seaworld, pop century, or buy a $25,000 timeshare this year?”

The only canibalization for new DVC would be the high end on property hotels.
 
M

mj2v

Well-Known Member
Sirwalterraleigh said:
I’m not forgetting the 400 outside hotels at all...

DVC isn’t pulling from there, honestly.

It’s near 100% occupancy and the people of “steals” are replenished from the feeders before you can blink.

It’s not like somebody says:

“Hmmmm, kids, are we going to the clarion inn at seaworld, pop century, or buy a $25,000 timeshare this year?”

The only canibalization for new DVC would be the high end on property hotels.
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I worked for DVC for a long time. Let’s just say that you are making assumptions that are incorrect.

Came to realize that there is a very wide array of people that buy into DVC. Some that would seem to be the precise target never join, and some who no one would ever think would join pay cash for large memberships.
 
Sirwalterraleigh

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
mj2v said:
I worked for DVC for a long time. Let’s just say that you are making assumptions that are incorrect.

Came to realize that there is a very wide array of people that buy into DVC. Some that would seem to be the precise target never join, and some who no one would ever think would join pay cash for large memberships.
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That’s funny...I worked in the sundial (and several magical hoties) 😎...

Anyway...you have a valid point that usage on property is different with DVC...
...but here’s my simple, Eisner era semi outdated take:

While you can’t guarantee that new DVC will spike Park attendance...you competely cannot discount that it’s a likely result.

You know that all hotels south of 192 and east of I-4 are not a legitimate threat to DVC and the on properties...

The big problem with DVC is the cannibalization of the new money deluxes. Which I think you’ll agree they’ve “solved” quite nicely recently at AKL, Poly, and WL

But back to that experience...and this is legit: did you find that those buying “randomly” against the market research were outnumbered by the already likely to stay on property by about 5 to 1?

Though...that was long ago and who know where they’ve mining for gold now 😎

...asking for a friend?
 
M

mj2v

Well-Known Member
while the Roomba Inn may not feed into DVC, your main point was crowding the parks.

A vast majority of the people in the parks are not staying in DVC or even Disney Hotels. Just look at the parking lots. Look at the traffic on world drive many mornings.

I would say that the rental housing market has more impact than DVC. Reunion, Champions Gate (check out I4 going to Polk County some night), Margaitaville, Etc.

The vacation home industry is powerful enough to get school impact fees waived... in a county that always complains they don’t have enough money for schools... https://www.google.com/amp/www.orla...osceola-school-impact-20180309-story,amp.html

I could go on and on, but it’s not the cause of crowding. The cause of crowding is the same reason we are both on a board discussion about WDW. There are many people who like coming to WDW.


As for your market study question, my time at DVC included the “we can sell the memberships so that people can go everywhere” phase. So they were actively ignoring the market studies. They ran 30 minute infomercials in the middle of the night. So, yes we sold many memberships to people who did not fit the mold. Not necessarily a bad thing, but not the best either.
 
Sirwalterraleigh

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
mj2v said:
while the Roomba Inn may not feed into DVC, your main point was crowding the parks.

A vast majority of the people in the parks are not staying in DVC or even Disney Hotels. Just look at the parking lots. Look at the traffic on world drive many mornings.

I would say that the rental housing market has more impact than DVC. Reunion, Champions Gate (check out I4 going to Polk County some night), Margaitaville, Etc.

The vacation home industry is powerful enough to get school impact fees waived... in a county that always complains they don’t have enough money for schools... https://www.google.com/amp/www.orla...osceola-school-impact-20180309-story,amp.html

I could go on and on, but it’s not the cause of crowding. The cause of crowding is the same reason we are both on a board discussion about WDW. There are many people who like coming to WDW.


As for your market study question, my time at DVC included the “we can sell the memberships so that people can go everywhere” phase. So they were actively ignoring the market studies. They ran 30 minute infomercials in the middle of the night. So, yes we sold many memberships to people who did not fit the mold. Not necessarily a bad thing, but not the best either.
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I wasn’t making the point about overcrowding...to be clear.

However...overcrowding is an issue and doesn’t look to be alleviated anytime soon. So academically speaking...all new hotels have the potential to exacerbate that...
 
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CaptainAmerica

CaptainAmerica

Premium Member
GhostHost1000 said:
no it hasn't.... would be surprised if at least some of it isn't however based on recent trends.
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I'm lousy at maps... Is it close enough to Ft. Wilderness to be something like "Cowboy Villas at Disney's Ft. Wilderness Resort and Campground" where they share amenities? Or is it its own thing?

I definitely prefer when DVC is integrated with proper resorts. It's a nice mix of amenities and you get different accommodations options than you'd otherwise get versus a resort of just standard hotel rooms.
 

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