Reedy Creek Improvement District long-term land use meeting 2023

JohnD

Well-Known Member
I don't blame you for missing it as it was buried somewhere on the last page (NOTE: I just looked, it's post #170), but we were specifically referring to hypothetical actions taken after the state legislature had re-written a portion of the development agreement statute and after the CFTOD board had invalidated that agreement using the new statutory language.
Disney's argument is that everything was valid before the Governor signed the new law. The Governor's argument is what you just stated - the CFTOD board had invalidated the agreement using new statutory language. Hence, the legal dispute.
 

MagicHappens1971

Well-Known Member
I don't blame you for missing it as it was buried somewhere on the last page (NOTE: I just looked, it's post #170), but we were specifically referring to hypothetical actions taken after the state legislature had re-written a portion of the development agreement statute and after the CFTOD board had invalidated that agreement using the new statutory language.
Gotcha. I don’t see the FL legislature taking that type of action to resolve this. Just my opinion, DeSantis and his minions just got checkmated. For a myriad of reasons, but most paramount, DeSantis intends to run for president. On top of that, this is all very anti-business/not business friendly, which is unlike the Republican Party, and the state senators/reps need people to vote for them. Further attacking a long standing widely loved entertainment conglomerate with malicious legislation isn’t the wisest move for attracting voters.
 

GimpYancIent

Well-Known Member
Disney's argument is that everything was valid before the Governor signed the new law. The Governor's argument is what you just stated - the CFTOD board had invalidated the agreement using new statutory language. Hence, the legal dispute.
The lawyers are taking everybody to the cleaners. The Haunted mansion quote is appropriate "Welcome Foolish Mortals" say the attorneys.
 

AdventureHasAName

Well-Known Member
Gotcha. I don’t see the FL legislature taking that type of action to resolve this. Just my opinion, DeSantis and his minions just got checkmated. For a myriad of reasons, but most paramount, DeSantis intends to run for president. On top of that, this is all very anti-business/not business friendly, which is unlike the Republican Party, and the state senators/reps need people to vote for them. Further attacking a long standing widely loved entertainment conglomerate with malicious legislation isn’t the wisest move for attracting voters.
How can it be considered checkmate if they have the power to do just as I suggested, with little to no effort? I would suggest it is a very wise move for attracting voters because the state went blood red the last election cycle despite DeSantis (and company) campaigning on sticking it to that same "widely loved entertainment conglomerate."
 

MagicHappens1971

Well-Known Member
Also this agreement is between a government organization (RCID that was folded into CFTOD) and a private organization, I don’t really think there’s precedence for the legislature or any judge in the world to overturn that.

Not liking a companies ability to outmaneuver your ill-intentioned legislation sounds a lot like something that would happen in a fascist country. I guess I forgot that Florida is basically that anyway.
 

AdventureHasAName

Well-Known Member
Disney can fight pretty much all of this in court and most likely win. That is why. All it’s going to do is stretch this out and that is not what DeSatan and his cronies want, we’re coming up on an election year.
There is no evidence they will "most likely win." I could understand believing that if you're locked in a media echo chamber, but it is very naive to believe a political party that controls pretty much every lever of state government is not going to be able to achieve its political goals through legislation.
 

danlb_2000

Premium Member
The development agreement is between two parties. One of the two parties (Reedy Creek) does not exist anymore. It's not just that the name was changed; it was not. Instead, the entity was dissolved by the state legislature and a new, similar entity was created. This is going to invalidate the development agreement. There's even a provision of the state statute outlining the "development agreement" process that specifically refers to what happens when the state (or federal) government does something in the future that invalidates the agreement (SPOILER ALERT: It's revoked or modified ... and you can't modify an agreement when one of the parties doesn't exist anymore and it has no assigns).

I'd be happy to post this in the other thread, but I haven't been able to post in that thread for months for whatever reason (nobody took the time to explain to me).

EDIT: After reading through HB9B, I think I'm wrong. Under the previous SB4C language, the district was dissolved, but under the 2023 HB9B, it has been renamed (retaining previous contractual obligations and liabilities). The Florida Legislature is going to wind up invalidating this development agreement through one-page legislation. Not a big deal, but I do now think they are going to need to pass actual legislation to fix this and avoid litigation.

Not sure exactly what you mean by "development agreement", but what is being discussed in this thread is the RCID Master Plan which is nothing more then a planning guidance document. I don't believe anything in it is actually binding.
 

mmascari

Well-Known Member
EDIT:
It really doesn't even need to be this complex. The legislature could simply pass an edit to the statute saying "Entities with more than 60,000 employees in the State of Florida may not enter into development agreements pursuant to Chapter 163 of the Florida Statutes."
Wouldn't that also impact a bunch of others, like Universal too? Or, any large company that has an agreement.

Assuming that the entire development plan and rules can change every twelve months, as these type of contracts would get evaluated. Which could then drastically change the taxing revenue of a government. That's going to have a significant negative impact on the bond rating of any government entity this rule applies to.

If an entity is issuing bonds to build new roads to attract new businesses, and those businesses are large enough that this applies. The bond buyers have to assume that whatever agreements the entity and business entered into, which drives the tax revenue they'll collect to pay back those bonds, is now squishy.

Way to tank the bond issuance market for the entire state I suppose.

That's the problem with trying to write a law that isn't just "we don't like this contract" but is instead "this structure is impacted". Lots of other things depend on the same structure. There's tons of knock on impacts, all of which are generally bad or worse.
 

MagicHappens1971

Well-Known Member
There is no evidence they will "most likely win." I could understand believing that if you're locked in a media echo chamber, but it is very naive to believe a political party that controls pretty much every lever of state government is not going to be able to achieve its political goals through legislation.
Thankfully the courts aren’t completely controlled by that political party.
 

AdventureHasAName

Well-Known Member
Not sure exactly what you mean by "development agreement", but what is being discussed in this thread is the RCID Master Plan which is nothing more then a planning guidance document. I don't believe anything in it is actually binding.
It was reported that what was signed between Reedy Creek and Disney (the day before HB9B was enacted by the state) is a "development agreement" as outlined and discussed in Chapter 163 of Florida's state statutes.
 

JohnD

Well-Known Member
It was reported that what was signed between Reedy Creek and Disney (the day before HB9B was enacted by the state) is a "development agreement" as outlined and discussed in Chapter 163 of Florida's state statutes.
There was a 30 year Development Agreement and a "perpetual" covenant of restrictions. They're separate documents. Someone more versed in this stuff can better explain the difference than me.
 

mkt

Disney's Favorite Scumbag™
Premium Member
I don't agree that Disney is on a survivable legal footing at all. I believe the legislature is going to be able to fix this fairly easily. Regardless of anything else, the legislature (and Governor's office) is bright red and they want this accomplished. It is very naive to believe they are powerless to make it happen ... or that the state legislature can be handcuffed forever by a local government (created by state statute) that acted specifically to frustrate the goal of the legislature.
US Constitution, Article I, Section 10 states that no state shall pass any Law impairing the obligation of contracts.

Disney is on extremely strong legal footing.
 

Touchdown

Well-Known Member
There is no evidence they will "most likely win." I could understand believing that if you're locked in a media echo chamber, but it is very naive to believe a political party that controls pretty much every lever of state government is not going to be able to achieve its political goals through legislation.
The wheels of justice are slow, delaying a decision past 2024 is a win for Disney and a loss for the Governor (who’s goal is to look good in a presidential campaign) so it is in fact extremely essy to see Disney get the win.
 

AdventureHasAName

Well-Known Member
Wouldn't that also impact a bunch of others, like Universal too? Or, any large company that has an agreement.
Yes. How many businesses with more than 60k+ employees in Florida have development agreements? I bet there's just one, maybe two.

Way to tank the bond issuance market for the entire state I suppose.
Politically, if I was the Republicans, I'd take my chances as (1) I think everyone would see this for what it is - a singular dispute with one particular business, and (2) I don't think anyone interested in bond values would care. I don't think bond values would drop at all.
 

MagicHappens1971

Well-Known Member
I remember when this was an open-and-shut 1st Amendment issue that would be resolved immediately 12 months ago.
I can’t tell if you’re purposely being so narrow in your responses. Why would Disney attack the state and possibly cause themselves more problems when they could pull a move like they did. Now they may not have a choice, it doesn’t make their legal standing any less.
 

mmascari

Well-Known Member
Yes. How many businesses with more than 60k+ employees in Florida have development agreements? I bet there's just one, maybe two.
It depends on how you count them. But, it's the same issue. If you're counting Universal Orlando as all of NBC Universal, it's going to be included. If you're only counting the parts that run the park, Disney can do the same accounting and get the number under 60K through different paper entities.

The exact same thing would apply to some multi national conglomerate building a new office park.

Politically, if I was the Republicans, I'd take my chances as (1) I think everyone would see this for what it is - a singular dispute with one particular business, and (2) I don't think anyone interested in bond values would care. I don't think bond values would drop at all.
During the brief period when it appeared the bonds would be dumped on the counties, they suffered. Then they held as it became clear that was an issue and would be prevented. Changing the environment so that all government contracts in FL are subject to the whim of whomever is currently elected instead of the underlying assets would destroy that market.

It will be very difficult for the state to invalidate this specific contract without either including a bunch of others at the same time (invalidating conditions the contract depends on), or invalidating contract law in general (just because they don't like this one, which is likely a constitutional problem too).
 

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