News Reedy Creek Improvement District and the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District

[Stripes]

For those wondering:

Then later:

Searching for "train" or "training" in Exhibit 56 returns no hits. Searching for "training" in Exhibit 2-B doesn't show anything helpful.

It’s possible that the “report” misreported who made the decision that it was “training.” Ann Blakeslee determined that they were “working condition fringe benefits.” Which could be construed as another way of saying “training.”

 

[flynnibus]

One thing is clear from how this report is written... employees are going to be missing a ton of TLC and employee appreciation stuff they've grown accustomed to for decades. What used to be a very attractive place to work because employees were treated well will become just another gov grind of disinterested people.

No wonder so many were leaving...

 

[WoundedDreamer]

There is no tax mentioned in the Invoice -
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If Florida ends up losing the lawsuit, it might be because of stuff like this. This is pocket change for The Walt Disney World Resort. Calling this corruption or financial malfeasance is groan-inducing. It's clear there is no meaningful corruption, or else they would have found something more substantive than this. Criticisms of the way the RCID was structured are one thing, but baseless assertions that wide-scale corruption occurred are another entirely different. This is amateurish.

 

[Disstevefan1]

If Florida ends up losing the lawsuit, it might be because of stuff like this. This is pocket change for The Walt Disney World Resort. Calling this corruption or financial malfeasance is groan-inducing. It's clear there is no meaningful corruption, or else they would have found something more substantive than this. Criticisms of the way the RCID was structured are one thing, but baseless assertions that wide-scale corruption occurred are another entirely different. This is amateurish.

In my opinion, this whole thing is stupid. The state should have let RCID be even if technically the real EPCOT was never made and even if RCID gave Disney advantages other entities do not have.

Central Florida is the HUGE SUCCESS it is today BECAUSE of TWDC.

The state is killing their own cash cow.

 

[Batman'sParents]

So, how many former or current employees are going to need to retain attorney's for potential subpoenas or depositions?

 

[TtocsMc]

Can I ask everyone’s thoughts on the first item on the agenda? How is the board going to approve an additional $5000 if it wasn’t accounted for in the 2024 budget? Especially if they are now going to cover over $2 million in back taxes? Where is this money coming from?

Excerpt from the packet:
“The District has created this Supplemental Performance Award Policy given its recent success and in an effort to recognize and award continued and future service by District support personnel and administrative staff members.

This Policy applies to non-bargaining unit employees only. The Effective Date of this Policy is upon approval and dissemination to employees. Any non-bargaining unit employee employed as of the Effective Date of this Policy and who has been employed by the District for at least ninety (90) days as of the Effective Date of this Policy and who remains employed by the District as of December 15, 2023 will be eligible to receive a lump sum supplemental performance award in the amount of $5,000.00 minus applicable deductions and withholdings ("Supplemental Amount").”

 

[JoeCamel]

In my opinion, this whole thing is stupid. The state should have let RCID be even if technically the real EPCOT was never made and even if RCID gave Disney advantages other entities do not have.

Central Florida is the HUGE SUCCESS it is today BECAUSE of TWDC.

The state is killing their own cash cow.

Does seem a bit of rhinoplasty to irk your visage

 

[JoeCamel]

Can I ask everyone’s thoughts on the first item on the agenda? How is the board going to approve an additional $5000 if it wasn’t accounted for in the 2024 budget? Especially if they are now going to cover over $2 million in back taxes? Where is this money coming from?

Excerpt from the packet:
“The District has created this Supplemental Performance Award Policy given its recent success and in an effort to recognize and award continued and future service by District support personnel and administrative staff members.

This Policy applies to non-bargaining unit employees only. The Effective Date of this Policy is upon approval and dissemination to employees. Any non-bargaining unit employee employed as of the Effective Date of this Policy and who has been employed by the District for at least ninety (90) days as of the Effective Date of this Policy and who remains employed by the District as of December 15, 2023 will be eligible to receive a lump sum supplemental performance award in the amount of $5,000.00 minus applicable deductions and withholdings ("Supplemental Amount").”

Special assessment.....

 

[Batman'sParents]

Can I ask everyone’s thoughts on the first item on the agenda? How is the board going to approve an additional $5000 if it wasn’t accounted for in the 2024 budget? Especially if they are now going to cover over $2 million in back taxes? Where is this money coming from?

Excerpt from the packet:
“The District has created this Supplemental Performance Award Policy given its recent success and in an effort to recognize and award continued and future service by District support personnel and administrative staff members.

This Policy applies to non-bargaining unit employees only. The Effective Date of this Policy is upon approval and dissemination to employees. Any non-bargaining unit employee employed as of the Effective Date of this Policy and who has been employed by the District for at least ninety (90) days as of the Effective Date of this Policy and who remains employed by the District as of December 15, 2023 will be eligible to receive a lump sum supplemental performance award in the amount of $5,000.00 minus applicable deductions and withholdings ("Supplemental Amount").”

Could it also be covered by reserves?

 

[maxairmike]

Interesting that you'd cut off the part of my post where I speculate that there would be hefty civil penalties and possibly even criminal penalties for doing so.

But sycophants will be sycophants, I guess.

Do you honestly think that those penalties would be pursued, if they were lying? If there are professional/privately controlled credentials on the line, that’s a different thing, but talking solely about penalties levied by the current FL government…I think we all know the answer to that.


Given that this isn’t a perk that the District can give on its own, but rather a purchased package seemingly more like access to Tickets At Work, or LifeMart, or something similar, is there a taxable component beyond/in lieu of sales tax that a private company might pay when purchasing said packages? Obviously RCID wouldn’t have paid sales tax, but it would be surprising to me that companies would purchase a service that likely has a sales tax and then also turn around and generally for large companies absorb an additional cost beyond the purchase transaction in the form of the taxes to the employee from benefits. I’ve never seen benefits of any kind broken out on W2s or other personal statements anywhere I’ve worked (all larger companies), so I’m assuming they were always rolled into the pay rate or just covered by the companies on the backend without any visibility to employees. I haven’t read the report yet, but it sounds like neither of those things were happening with these benefits, if it actually should have been, is that correct?

 

[lazyboy97o]

Given that this isn’t a perk that the District can give on its own, but rather a purchased package seemingly more like access to Tickets At Work, or LifeMart, or something similar, is there a taxable component beyond/in lieu of sales tax that a private company might pay when purchasing said packages? Obviously RCID wouldn’t have paid sales tax, but it would be surprising to me that companies would purchase a service that likely has a sales tax and then also turn around and generally for large companies absorb an additional cost beyond the purchase transaction in the form of the taxes to the employee from benefits. I’ve never seen benefits of any kind broken out on W2s or other personal statements anywhere I’ve worked (all larger companies), so I’m assuming they were always rolled into the pay rate or just covered by the companies on the backend without any visibility to employees. I haven’t read the report yet, but it sounds like neither of those things were happening with these benefits, if it actually should have been, is that correct?

Not about taxes, but I spend many a day trying to explain to people that they’re not actually allowed to do something they see all the time.

 

[WoundedDreamer]

In my opinion, this whole thing is stupid. The state should have let RCID be even if technically the real EPCOT was never made and even if RCID gave Disney advantages other entities do not have.

Central Florida is the HUGE SUCCESS it is today BECAUSE of TWDC.

The state is killing their own cash cow.

I'm sympathetic to this view. I probably lean towards it myself. Though, I'm probably less concerned about the actual RCID organization staying intact than some. I've followed the fighting between Disneyland and Anaheim for many years. While the relationship has improved since COVID, for many years the two were engaged in a brutal war of words and political infighting. Despite all of that, Disneyland Resort remained successful and Anaheim continued to rake in cash.

Compared to what Anaheim regularly dished out at Disneyland, any political opposition Walt Disney World faced was laughable. That has shifted 180 degrees. I'm not convinced that the RCID is entirely necessary to the present success of The Walt Disney World Resort. Disney has every incentive to play up the relative importance of the RCID to its operations. Why? Because no firm in its right mind would sacrifice an arrangement like the RCID willingly. The power and financial advantages associated with the district are significant. The ability to fund infrastructural projects using municipal bonds was an excellent benefit.

Is a quasi-corporatist municipality necessary for the continued success of the world's largest theme park resort? I'd lean no.

There is a catch though. Any replacement for the RCID needed to be as competent or more competent than what existed previously. This is not an impossible bar to reach. But this grandstanding about corruption and the general disorganization exhibited by the board indicates that the RCID was better run than the new organization. And that is where I become concerned. No citizen or property owner in Florida should suddenly find their government more poorly managed than it was before. Especially if that is in retaliation for political positions.

I have probably managed to make every person on this board angry with this post...

 

[lazyboy97o]

I'm sympathetic to this view. I probably lean towards it myself. Though, I'm probably less concerned about the actual RCID organization staying intact than some. I've followed the fighting between Disneyland and Anaheim for many years. While the relationship has improved since COVID, for many years the two were engaged in a brutal war of words and political infighting. Despite all of that, Disneyland Resort remained successful and Anaheim continued to rake in cash.

Compared to what Anaheim regularly dished out at Disneyland, any political opposition Walt Disney World faced was laughable. That has shifted 180 degrees. I'm not convinced that the RCID is entirely necessary to the present success of The Walt Disney World Resort. Disney has every incentive to play up the relative importance of the RCID to its operations. Why? Because no firm in its right mind would sacrifice an arrangement like the RCID willingly. The power and financial advantages associated with the district are significant. The ability to fund infrastructural projects using municipal bonds was an excellent benefit.

Is a quasi-corporatist municipality necessary for the continued success of the world's largest theme park resort? I'd lean no.

There is a catch though. Any replacement for the RCID needed to be as competent or more competent than what existed previously. This is not an impossible bar to reach. But this grandstanding about corruption and the general disorganization exhibited by the board indicates that the RCID was better run than the new organization. And that is where I become concerned. No citizen or property owner in Florida should suddenly find their government more poorly managed than it was before. Especially if that is in retaliation for political positions.

I have probably managed to make every person on this board angry with this post...

Anaheim never threatened the Specific Plan that granted Disney development rights over the primary portion of the Disneyland Resort.

You’ve also confused a bunch of stuff, which isn’t shocking given that you jumped off from a false premise that has been correct dozens of times.

 

[flynnibus]

Can I ask everyone’s thoughts on the first item on the agenda? How is the board going to approve an additional $5000 if it wasn’t accounted for in the 2024 budget? Especially if they are now going to cover over $2 million in back taxes? Where is this money coming from?

last time they said they'd just use reserves...

 

[wdwmagic]

This part is going to be interesting to watch play out. Since Disney provides this same benefit to its own cast.

This was my first thought.

 

[WoundedDreamer]

Anaheim never threatened the Specific Plan that granted Disney development rights over the primary portion of the Disneyland Resort.

You’ve also confused a bunch of stuff, which isn’t shocking given that you jumped off from a false premise that has been correct dozens of times.

Can you expound on this? This thread is a thousand pages long. I have not followed the genesis of this from the beginning. It's clear some have. I'm willing to take corrections where appropriate. Believe me when I say I'm not trying to be a anti-Disney sycophant.

Individuals had been complaining about the RCID for decades. Criticisms of its structure were not really political before this DeSantis blow up.

I guess my question can be summed up by the following. Can I accept:

1) Florida engaged in political retaliation
2) Political retaliation is wrong
3) That RCID was competent and not corrupt
4) Disney deserves effective local governance
5) The current structure is not effective

While also accepting:

1) RCID is only one way the government could be structured
2) The RCID gave Walt Disney World significant advantages
3) The Walt Disney Company has incentive to retain those advantages


Are those points mutually exclusive? I don't think they are, but I'm willing to hear counterarguments. I lean towards the idea that DeSantis latched onto a valid idea that had some support, in order to conduct political retaliation. In the process it has become a train wreck through poor execution.

 

[WoundedDreamer]

This part is going to be interesting to watch play out. Since Disney provides this same benefit to its own cast.

This would count as a "Fringe Benefit" unless there is some carveout I'm unaware of. I'd be shocked if Disney isn't already calculating that into their employee's compensation. The sleepy RCID Townhall missing this is one thing, but Disney and their accounting firm missing this would be in another ballpark.

 

[mikejs78]

I hate to rain on the Moms for Liberty bashing parade, but if you review the ethics report, you'll find that Disney gave RCID board members 'improper cash gifts' as well as 'lavish spending' on district employees.

I look forward to the excuse-making.

Yeah, no. Disney gave RCID nothing. They sold them discounted passes like they did for every other business that operates within WDW.

RCID did not pay taxes on the park admission, nor did the employees, which is why they are being called out in the report. Someone has to pay the bill.

And it appears that RCID was looking to address that fact. There are tons of municipalities in FL that give discount passes to different attractions within FL. Are they all taxed? This type of benefit is often given without taxing the employees by many, many companies. Doesn't make it right, but it's not like RCID was doing anything out of the ordinary.

It's in the report. I'm fairly certain there would be stiff penalties for lying to the legislature and the governor.

There are demonstrable inaccuracies in the report, such as the characterization of this as a fringe benefit from Disney, among others. This is not a clean report.

Are you suggesting that the authors of this report would lie in an official report to the governor and the legislature?

They have already demonstrably lied in official proceedings, which is equally illegal.

Here is the letter an accounting firm sent to the IRS, which may shed more light on the issue.

https://www.oversightdistrict.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/Exhibit-56-November-28-2023-Tax-Letter.pdf

The CFTOD has posted links to all exhibits from the report on its website at this link.

The accountant letter contained falsehoods, such as claiming that "Disney" did not report the property payroll withholding. It's not Disney who does payroll for RCID.

I'm sure someone around here will find a way to claim that the district is still lying, despite having their accounting firm send a letter to the IRS admitting they have unpaid tax liability and wishing to work with them to resolve it.

Well, we have multitudes of evidence that it has. They have demonstrated time and time again that they are willing to lie to hurt Disney. And this report was not exactly written in a serious way.

Also, if this is the best they can come up with, the district was run pretty cleanly.
...

was written by outside counsel, with major portions being written by experts in their fields.

The language doesn't seem particularly professional like it was written by any serious law firm.

 

[flynnibus]

The accountant letter contained falsehoods, such as claiming that "Disney" did not report the property payroll withholding. It's not Disney who does payroll for RCID.

You should read the report. This topic spans several iterations of the relationship… including a period were disney was in fact doing payroll. And periods where rcid wasn’t paying for the perk at all.

There is a whole lot to digest in there

 

[mikejs78]

1) RCID is only one way the government could be structured
2) The RCID gave Walt Disney World significant advantages
3) The Walt Disney Company has incentive to retain those advantages

Well, maybe not. Yes, it gave Disney some advantages, but at the cost of significantly higher tax rates to pay for the infrastructure of the district. So Disney pays county taxes like everyone else, but also pays taxes to the district. Any other structure would require other tax money to fund the infrastructure for Disney - and that would be a hardship on the people of Orange and Osceola counties.