News Reedy Creek Improvement District and the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District

[Stripes]

“DeSantis’ plan for the district he seized is to take tax money from Disney and use it to sue Disney, in an attempt to circumvent Disney’s control over land Disney owns.”

This is gross and needs to be stopped.

 

[lazyboy97o]

But if the purpose of the legislation was primarily residential Disney wouldn’t have been interested, right? They wanted to build Disneyland East.

Which Disney? Walt’s focus was almost exclusively on urban planning and EPCOT. Pretty much everyone else was more interested in Disneyland East, but even then design work on the Magic Kingdom didn’t begin until after Walt’s death (which also means Walt was never going to have an apartment in the castle). If you look closely at the Disney World Site Plan featured in The EPCOT Film, the one also replicated at One Man’s Dream, you can see that Disneyland East is just a copy and paste of Disneyland. WED hadn’t done any work to figure out what it would be and Walt even said that it wouldn’t be another Disneyland.

 

[Cliff]

Im not a lawyer and have no real legal knowledge of this situation. But, to the best I can understand it...this is the basic problem:

RCID is a public municipality that....by law....MUST remain seperate from Disney. RCID, by law is NOT supposed to be "loyal" to Disney. If it IS found that RCID was beholden to Disney, then the people that caused this to happen were breaking the law. If this happens, that it will be argued that RCID was literally a fraud. Yes, even the bonds that RCID issued were fraudulant too. The town you live in is NOT supposed to be under the thumb of the companies that operate in your town. If so....that is a CLEAR conflict of interest of your municipality. Towns/cities/counties answer to the public...the people of your state. They are NOT tools of corporations. This is the law in Florida.

I think that all of the communications between Disney and RCID will be subpoenad under Florida's Sunshine Law and if those records show Disney giving illeagle orders to RCID....this whole thing will come crashing down in a horrible way for Disney.

If RCID is deemed to be fraudulant and all those hundreds of millions in RCID bonds are all fraudulant? I dont know....but this "could" be the nastiest rabbit hole that Disney could have ever fallin in to.

This "could" be something that RCID and Disney staff might facing if there is enough evidence. Actual fraud and crimes that could land people in jail. I do suspect that "wistle blowers" will now come out from everywhere soon???

Lets hope this is NOT the case. Let's hope that Disney PROVES that they did NOT use RCID this way and that they never broke the legal wall between them. Let's hope the state gets all the documents and sees nothing illeagle was done by ANYbody.

Let's all hope for the best!!

 

[lazyboy97o]

Wouldn’t it make sense to include that objective in the new legislation then?

It’s kind of there in the requirement that the Board prepare reports on powers and authority that can be removed.

 

[GoofGoof]

I went back and watched the press conference where Walt and Roy sat next to the then Governor. The Gov was practically drooling at the prospect of a Disneyland. Walt’s EPCOT film reflected a multipurpose use, with a theme park, a massive community/utopia, surrounding something like a permanent worlds fair, and a resort aspect. Many biographers speak as to how Walt, post-Worlds Fair, became somewhat obsessed with becoming a city/community planner.

I’ve never said and do not believe that the primary purpose of the legislation was to permit residential use. I *do* believe Disney used the weenie of a “Disneyland East” to secure the sort of streamlined governmental authority that eventually became RCIA/RCID. I don’t believe they did so under false pretenses - to the contrary. I believe TWDC, as it existed at the time, had every intent to make that come about. Once Walt died and Roy and Marty Sklar had to pick up the baton cooler heads prevailed and they delivered in the most reasonable component first. I don’t think they induced the legislature fraudulently in 66/67. Corporate prerogatives change.

I don’t disagree with any of this. In the context of what we are discussing here I’m not sure it matters if Disney originally contemplated residential development too. It has no bearing on the legality or purpose of RCID.

The current Governor had a dispute with Disney and in an attempt to punish the company tried and failed to dissolve the district and later pivoted to just seizing control of the board. Some posters have suggested that his actions were justified because Disney falsely claimed they would use the district for residential development as well as tourism and so RCID should not have existed once the residential development was cancelled. That is where the push back is coming from.

On the topic of the Governor drooling….of course he was. With this deal he replaced some orange groves and swamp land in a scarcely populated section of the state with what had the potential to be a major tourism draw. Based on how things turned out I don’t think he drooled enough . It really is one of the great economic success stories of the past 50 years.

 

[Chi84]

Im not a lawyer and have no real legal knowledge of this situation. But, to the best I can understand it...this is the basic problem:

RCID is a public municipality that....by law....MUST remain seperate from Disney. RCID, by law is NOT supposed to be "loyal" to Disney. If it IS found that RCID was beholden to Disney, then the people that caused this to happen were breaking the law. If this happens, that it will be argued that RCID was literally a fraud. Yes, even the bonds that RCID issued were fraudulant too.

I think that all of the communications between Disney and RCID will be subpoenad under Florida's Sunshine Law and if those records show Disney giving orders to RCID....this whole thing will come crashing down in a horrible way for Disney.

If RCID is deemed to be fraudulant and all those hundreds of millions in bonds are all fraudulant? I dont know....but this "could" be the nastiest rabbit hole that Disney could have ever fallin in to.

This "could" be something that RCID and Disney staff might facing if there is a evidence. Actual fraud and crimes that could land people in jail.

Lets hope this is NOT the case. Let's hope that Disney proves that they did NOT use RCID this way and that they never broke the legal wall between them. Let's hope the state gets all the documents and sees nothing wrong!

Let's all hope for the best!!

Even if you're not a lawyer, there's a Florida law review article cited somewhere above that explains the relationship between Disney and RCID as well as the reasons the special district was created. It's long and involved but definitely worth reading and will alleviate some of the concerns raised in your post.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Im not a lawyer and have no real legal knowledge of this situation. But, to the best I can understand it...this is the basic problem:

RCID is a public municipality that....by law....MUST remain seperate from Disney. RCID, by law is NOT supposed to be "loyal" to Disney. If it IS found that RCID was beholden to Disney, then the people that caused this to happen were breaking the law. If this happens, that it will be argued that RCID was literally a fraud. Yes, even the bonds that RCID issued were fraudulant too.

I think that all of the communications between Disney and RCID will be subpoenad under Florida's Sunshine Law and if those records show Disney giving orders to RCID....this whole thing will come crashing down in a horrible way for Disney.

If RCID is deemed to be fraudulant and all those hundreds of millions in bonds are all fraudulant? I dont know....but this "could" be the nastiest rabbit hole that Disney could have ever fallin in to.

This "could" be something that RCID and Disney staff might facing if there is a evidence. Actual fraud and crimes that could land people in jail.

Lets hope this is NOT the case. Let's hope that Disney proves that they did NOT use RCID this way and that they never broke the legal wall between them. Let's hope the state gets all the documents and sees nothing wrong!

Let's all hope for the best!!

If this were the case many special districts would have be impacted. There is no separation required from de facto control of districts with voting by landownership. At this very moment Universal is working to establish a community development district which they will control as the majority landowner.

 

[GoofGoof]

Im not a lawyer and have no real legal knowledge of this situation. But, to the best I can understand it...this is the basic problem:

RCID is a public municipality that....by law....MUST remain seperate from Disney. RCID, by law is NOT supposed to be "loyal" to Disney. If it IS found that RCID was beholden to Disney, then the people that caused this to happen were breaking the law. If this happens, that it will be argued that RCID was literally a fraud. Yes, even the bonds that RCID issued were fraudulant too.

I think that all of the communications between Disney and RCID will be subpoenad under Florida's Sunshine Law and if those records show Disney giving orders to RCID....this whole thing will come crashing down in a horrible way for Disney.

If RCID is deemed to be fraudulant and all those hundreds of millions in bonds are all fraudulant? I dont know....but this "could" be the nastiest rabbit hole that Disney could have ever fallin in to.

This "could" be something that RCID and Disney staff might facing if there is a evidence. Actual fraud and crimes that could land people in jail.

Lets hope this is NOT the case. Let's hope that Disney proves that they did NOT use RCID this way and that they never broke the legal wall between them. Let's hope the state gets all the documents and sees nothing wrong!

Let's all hope for the best!!

Special districts are not a fraud. They exist in many places including all over FL. The bonds were not a fraud. The district was acting within its authority which was granted by the legislation that established the district and was upheld by the FL Supreme Court.

 

[Stripes]

Im not a lawyer and have no real legal knowledge of this situation. But, to the best I can understand it...this is the basic problem:

RCID is a public municipality that....by law....MUST remain seperate from Disney. RCID, by law is NOT supposed to be "loyal" to Disney. If it IS found that RCID was beholden to Disney, then the people that caused this to happen were breaking the law. If this happens, that it will be argued that RCID was literally a fraud. Yes, even the bonds that RCID issued were fraudulant too. The town you live in is NOT suppised to be under the thumb of the companies that operate in your town. If so....that is a CLEAR conflict of interest of your municipality. Towns/cities/counties answer to the public...the people of your state. They are NOT tools of corporations. This is the law in Florida.

I think that all of the communications between Disney and RCID will be subpoenad under Florida's Sunshine Law and if those records show Disney giving orders to RCID....this whole thing will come crashing down in a horrible way for Disney.

If RCID is deemed to be fraudulant and all those hundreds of millions in bonds are all fraudulant? I dont know....but this "could" be the nastiest rabbit hole that Disney could have ever fallin in to.

This "could" be something that RCID and Disney staff might facing if there is a evidence. Actual fraud and crimes that could land people in jail.

Lets hope this is NOT the case. Let's hope that Disney proves that they did NOT use RCID this way and that they never broke the legal wall between them. Let's hope the state gets all the documents and sees nothing wrong!

Let's all hope for the best!!

As a special district elected on a one acre/one vote basis, RCID was exempt from many Florida ethics laws, including the one that you raised.

https://www.ethics.state.fl.us/Documents/Publications/GuideBookletInternet.pdf

No county, municipal, or other local public officer shall vote in an official capacity upon any measure which would inure to his or her special private gain or loss, or which the officer knows would inure to the special private gain or loss of any principal by whom he or she is retained, of the parent organization or subsidiary or sibling of a corporate principal by which he or she is retained, of a relative, or of a business associate. The officer must publicly announce the nature of his or her interest before the vote and must file a memorandum of voting conflict on Commission Form 8B with the meeting’s recording officer within 15 days after the vote occurs disclosing the nature of his or her interest in the matter. However, members of community redevelopment agencies and district officers elected on a one‐acre, one‐vote basis are not required to abstain when voting in that capacity.

 

[Tha Realest]

Special districts are not a fraud. They exist in many places including all over FL. The bonds were not a fraud. The district was acting within its authority which was granted by the legislation that established the district and was upheld by the FL Supreme Court.

Benefitting the principal landowners (often private enterprise) is essentially “baked in” to the purpose of the laws. They’re there to streamline things for development.

 

[GoofGoof]

Benefitting the principal landowners (often private enterprise) is essentially “baked in” to the purpose of the laws. They’re there to streamline things for development.

Yes, that’s where the whole “public purpose“ concept comes in. If the district serves what is deemed a public purpose it’s acceptable for a private enterprise to also benefit. In the case of RCID the public purpose was increased tourism and travel which certainly turned out to be a huge benefit to the state. Same goes for the special district around the Daytona Speedway or the new one proposed by Universal.

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

Oh yeah absolutely. I think the district probably should be dissolved. Obviously it's going to take longer than the governor's timeline would allow, but it should be a long term goal toward working to. Maybe the new board can make it a priority to stop taking on too much debt so that eventually when it is dissolved, and power is transferred back to the counties, the debt will not be.

But why?

By all accounts, for the entirety of the existence of WDW they've done a great job running the area, have helped Florida by taking on a greater share of expenses, with zero additional downside to Florida.

This is such an obvious win-win scenario, the only reason to object to it is from an irrational and politically partisan perspective.

 

[Disney Glimpses]

But why?

By all accounts, for the entirety of the existence of WDW they've done a great job running the area, have helped Florida by taking on a greater share of expenses, with zero additional downside to Florida.

This is such an obvious win-win scenario, the only reason to object to it is from an irrational and politically partisan perspective.

Because it's "unfair to Universal."

 

[GoofGoof]

Because it's "unfair to Universal."

My guess is if I drive down the road to the Comcast headquarters and ask them if they would like a special district over their whole Universal park property in FL which enables them more control around development but comes with a huge tax bill they’d say thanks, but no thanks. Universal is happy to have a smaller, more narrowly defined special district for a very specific purpose but I doubt they have any desire for their own RCID and I doubt many other businesses would want what Disney has either. WDW is a pretty unique property.

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

Because it's "unfair to Universal."

My guess is if I drive down the road to the Comcast headquarters and ask them if they would like a special district over their whole Universal park property in FL which enables them more control around development but comes with a huge tax bill they’d say thanks, but no thanks. Universal is happy to have a smaller, more narrowly defined special district for a very specific purpose but I doubt they have any desire for their own RCID and I doubt many other businesses would want what Disney has either. WDW is a pretty unique property.

I think they were being sarcastic. The "unfair to Universal" is an example of a talking point that represents the opposite of reality.

Which really applies to most, if not all, of the reasons people are using to argue against Disney controlling RCID.

Like the latest and laughable argument that a 50-year agreement suddenly needs to change because they changed plans to build EPCOT as an actual city half a decade ago.

 

[Disstevefan1]

Because it's "unfair to Universal."

If there was never a WDW in central Florida, there would never have been a Universal Orlando.

If there was never a WDW in central Florida, Central Florida would have never been the #1 vacation destination.

RCID was happily created by Florida to bring TWDC to central Florida.

The rest, we say, is history.

 

[castlecake2.0]

Sooo any actual updates?

 

[Disstevefan1]

Sooo any actual updates?

TWDC is still in control and RonnyBaby is still RonnyBaby.

 

[Disney Glimpses]

If there was never a WDW in central Florida, there would never have been a Universal Orlando.

If there was never a WDW in central Florida, Central Florida would have never been the #1 vacation destination.

RCID was happily created by Florida to bring TWDC to central Florida.

The rest, we say, is history.

To clarify, it's not me saying this. That's the nonsense argument I've heard when I ask "tell me how RCID is bad for Florida?"

 

[Chi84]

To clarify, it's not me saying this. That's the nonsense argument I've heard when I ask "tell me how RCID is bad for Florida?"

I'm still trying to find out how anyone thinks the current situation is better for Florida than RCID. The only answer I got is that it's detrimental for Disney. That we know.