News Reedy Creek Improvement District and the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District

[Sirwalterraleigh]

So we’re gonna do this “Disney is like any other business” thing?

Or do we want to take a deep breath (or a shot of tequila…whichever is more effective) and think about the “foundation” that our argument stands on.

I always love when we try to claim “equality” on a planet forged by Inequality since the bang

 

[LAKid53]

Bold from me.



I'm sure someone posted earlier, but I thought the people in a district had to vote on on changes to the districts powers and structures.

Using this an example, if the state can just rewrite the district definition and impose new governance without any vote of the impacted people, what stops the state from doing the same to a town or city? Could the state just decide that a mayor should be state appointed? Perhaps a town council have majority state members instead of elections? Or, whatever FL uses for local governace.

That is the concern of many. Can the state make changes to any government or quasi-government entity created by charter, without the express approval of the residents of that entity? Some towns in the state were created by charter.

 

[lazyboy97o]

My question is how? How does a special district get created that the people living it under it dont get to approve? I don't believe the goverener or legislature has that power. Sure, they can pass something but the likely hood of it surviving in court is small.

Disney agreeing to such a District would
not surprise me. I think it would be a horrible decision but I can see the “compromise” of appeasement prevailing in a vain attempt to try and make things go away. The question I have is what about the other land owners?

New districts require unanimous approval from land owners and I don’t see why any of the other landowners would agree. How does a district with smaller borders not run afoul of the state’s pledge to bond holders? What incentive does Target or CVS have to keep paying more taxes? Why would Biden agree to give DeSantis a win if unanimous approval of existing landowners is needed?

 

[LAKid53]

That is not exactly correct. While they don’t have to get planning approvals for example a new parking lot, these entities have lobbied and negotiated with county and city authorities for zoning regulations that allow them to develop as they see fit to a limit. These zoning regulations are not carte blanche to do whatever they want.

Disney does not have that limitation. If they wanted to change zoning regs to build a 100 story hotel, they could force it through. If USO wanted to do that, they’d be appearing before different public boards which they don’t control for years and years, with no outcome assured.

That depends on if a proposed hotel, park, zoning change, etc., needs approval of South Florida Water Management District. If such proposed construction will impact water resources in any manner in the District, then SFWMD must review and approve said change. One clue used to see future plans are the permits filed with the District.

 

[GoofGoof]

My question is how? How does a special district get created that the people living it under it don't get to approve? I don't believe the governor or legislature has that power. Sure, they can pass something but the likelihood of it surviving in court is small.

There is precedent in FL for special districts being formed and the government appointing the board as opposed to having the landowners elect the board, but in those cases the district’s primary source of income was government funding Not a special tax assessed on landowners. This is common for districts governing hospitals/medical centers for example. When we pulled up the list of special districts in FL with government appointed boards we could not find 1 that had taxing authority as well. Basic concept of no taxation without representation. If RCID is replaced with a new special district with taxing authority and government appointed board members it will be the first if it’s kind. As I said in the previous post it seems very unlikely to be legal.

 

[lazyboy97o]

That depends on if a proposed hotel, park, zoning change, etc., needs approval of South Florida Water Management District. If such proposed construction will impact water resources in any manner in the District, then SFWMD must review and approve said change. One clue used to see future plans are the permits filed with the District.

Water management is not the same as zoning. Entities seeking water management approval do not have to include the sort of specific information typically required of zoning planing departments. It is possible to get a water management permit that is simply to allow X SF of impermeable work without anything more specific like building footprints.

 

[LAKid53]

My question is how? How does a special district get created that the people living it under it don't get to approve? I don't believe the governor or legislature has that power. Sure, they can pass something but the likelihood of it surviving in court is small.

Now, strip Disney of RCID, sure, they could get there eventually but they just can't create a district out of thin air no one asked for and force the people living under it to pay more taxes.

Precisely. If there's no replacement for RCID on July 1, 2023, then everything reverts to the two counties WDW spans to provide the services RCID used to.

 

[Dranth]

Disney agreeing to such a District would
not surprise me. I think it would be a horrible decision but I can see the “compromise” of appeasement prevailing in a vain attempt to try and make things go away. The question I have is what about the other land owners?

New districts require unanimous approval from land owners and I don’t see why any of the other landowners would agree. How does a district with smaller borders not run afoul of the state’s pledge to bond holders? What incentive does Target or CVS have to keep paying more taxes? Why would Biden agree to give DeSantis a win if unanimous approval of existing landowners is needed?

I could see Disney agreeing to it if the new district basically leaves things as is. That way the Governor gets his “win” without it impacting Disney but it doesn’t look like that is what DeSantis wants. They have no reason to go along with his plan and I expect they will fight it if what is currently being reported is accurate.

 

[LAKid53]

Water management is not the same as zoning. Entities seeking water management approval do not have to include the sort of specific information typically required of zoning planing departments. It is possible to get a water management permit that is simply to allow X SF of impermeable work without anything more specific like building footprints.

If the building is going to impact protected areas, such as wetlands or flood zones, the District will ask for additional details when reviewing a permit. I sat on several DEP TACs which included WMD staff in reviewing permits and documentation similar to what a business had to provide for zoning exemptions was requested.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Precisely. If there's no replacement for RCID on July 1, 2023, then everything reverts to the two counties WDW spans to provide the services RCID used to.

This assumes the legislation applies to Reedy Creek Improvement District.

 

[monothingie]

We’ve had very public statements from the Florida governor stating that, in effect, this was in retaliation for Disney opposing the Parental Rights in Education Act.

Proving the governor’s intent probably is one of the easier things Disney would have to demonstrate in any First Amendment lawsuit they bring forth.

The answer is likely a little more nuanced, hence the uncertainty. The governor doesn't control the legislature which has been in the drivers seat creating the laws. To argue that that the collective of the legislature violated Disney 1A rights or conspired to deny their 1A rights, especially when everything said publicly has been used to apply to all special state created districts not specifically Disney, becomes very complicated.

The problem is that you can ask 100 different lawyers this questions and likely get 100 different answers. Ultimately it will be if Disney decides it's worth the effort to pursue this, which in and of itself is by no means a guarantee of success.

Of course the smart thing to do would be to negotiate.....or beg.

 

[JohnD]

Precisely. If there's no replacement for RCID on July 1, 2023, then everything reverts to the two counties WDW spans to provide the services RCID used to.

I keep thinking it ends on 6/30/23, which is the end of Florida's fiscal year. It doesn't. It ends 6/1/23. Therefore, FIFW:

If there's no replacement for RCID on June 2, 2023, then everything reverts to the two counties WDW spans to provide the services RCID used to.

 

[Disstevefan1]

My question is how? How does a special district get created that the people living it under it don't get to approve? I don't believe the governor or legislature has that power. Sure, they can pass something but the likelihood of it surviving in court is small.

Now, strip Disney of RCID, sure, they could get there eventually but they just can't create a district out of thin air no one asked for and force the people living under it to pay more taxes.

I don’t know, but the state dissolved RCID out of thin air apparently.

 

[JohnD]

I don’t know, but the state dissolved RCID out of thin air apparently.

And the state created the special district out of thin air. It's amazing how legislative bills work.

 

[monothingie]

Last I checked in our system politicians cannot just “implement any change they see fit“ once they are elected.

RCID is a state created district. What the State creates it can take away.

 

[Disstevefan1]

And the state created the special district out of thin air. It's amazing how legislative bills work.

We have our answers. How can they do it? They can because they can.

 

[JohnD]

RCID is a state created district. What the State creates it can take away.

Creates: Chapter 1967-764, Laws of Florida. Starts on PDF p. 266

Takes Away: Chapter 2022-266, Laws of Florida

 

[JohnD]

We have our answers. How can they do it? They can because they can.

We're in agreement then. Exactly.

 

[monothingie]

That depends on if a proposed hotel, park, zoning change, etc., needs approval of South Florida Water Management District. If such proposed construction will impact water resources in any manner in the District, then SFWMD must review and approve said change. One clue used to see future plans are the permits filed with the District.

RCID allows Disney to bypass some or all of the process that others would be subject to.

 

[monothingie]

Precisely. If there's no replacement for RCID on July 1, 2023, then everything reverts to the two counties WDW spans to provide the services RCID used to.

Unless of course the legislature takes action. Which is what this bill appears to do.

Ultimately the State has the power to implement any type of change they see fit so long as it adheres to the Florida Constitution. And if that got in the way, the legislature could amend the Florida Constitution.