News Reedy Creek Improvement District and the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District

lentesta

Premium Member
#3 would still dissolve the district so I think that would be out.

#2 - Reedy Creek's charter calls for election of the board members. FL couldn't pass a law that appoints members to special districts that would also apply to Reedy Creek because of section 2.

#3 wouldn't dissolve the district - it'd create a parallel new district into which the powers of the existing RCID would be merged such that the governor controls the board.

The RCID charter call for election of board members could be supersceded through passage of new laws.
 

lentesta

Premium Member
Based on the bold sentence wouldn‘t the landowners need to vote to accept a higher tax rate than is otherwise legally allowed?

Thanks for researching this!

Didn't the landowners already vote on this? If so, why would creating a new special district that usurps RCID's governance, require a re-vote?

Think of it this way: the governor's going to create a special district that keeps the RCID alive as-is, except for the people running it. What prohibits that from happening?
 

mikejs78

Well-Known Member
I think this is the best defense.

Is there something in the FL constitution that guarantees the residents of a special district get to elect their own local governance?
Not per se, but the constitution doesn't shine the principle of home rule - That local government should not be interfered with by the state government.

Especially given how Reedy Creek was established - It was established by special act of the legislature and a referendum of the voters of Lake Buena Vista and Bay Lake.

The way I see it, the governor's proposal has the greatest chance of success out of any I've heard so far, but they will still have to jump through hoops in order to get it and acted and apply to Reedy Creek. And even if they do get it an active, it would be subject to a whole host of legal and constitutional challenges. This will probably be tied up in court until long after DeSantis is governor.

I also wonder if this is part of the face saving mechanism that Disney and DeSantis are negotiating. Maybe it ends up being something where the governor just has to approve board members, or there's some joint mechanism where Disney and the governor's office agree on mutually acceptable board members. That might make this whole thing go away while DeSantis is still able to claim a win.
 

mikejs78

Well-Known Member
Didn't the landowners already vote on this? If so, why would creating a new special district that usurps RCID's governance, require a re-vote?

If it's a new special district though, would they automatically inherit all of the bylaws of Reedy Creek? I'm not sure that that is the case.

If the governor creates a new special district, it's not Reedy Creek anymore. It's something new and independent. I think at that point the defaults in the constitution would apply to it unless otherwise voted on by the landowners.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
Thanks for researching this!

Didn't the landowners already vote on this? If so, why would creating a new special district that usurps RCID's governance, require a re-vote?

Think of it this way: the governor's going to create a special district that keeps the RCID alive as-is, except for the people running it. What prohibits that from happening?
I am not sure if that is how it would work. I suppose it may be possible to create a new special district with no taxing authority and then force that district and RCID to merge essentially forming 1 new district due to that combining that keeps the new combined district’s governance but the old RCID taxing authority. I believe there is a mechanism for the government to force a combining of local municipalities. I am unsure how the cities of Bay Lake and Lake Buena Vista play into that though. Can the Governor just unilaterally combine local cities? Seems like an extreme overreach of power.

The other problem is they already passed a bill dissolving RCID along with several other districts. I suppose they could either reverse the law passed or possibly make this all happen before June 2022 then the new combined district would not fall under the act passed to dissolve RCID.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Thanks for researching this!

Didn't the landowners already vote on this? If so, why would creating a new special district that usurps RCID's governance, require a re-vote?

Think of it this way: the governor's going to create a special district that keeps the RCID alive as-is, except for the people running it. What prohibits that from happening?
Where is the governor granted authority to take control of local governments? We’ve come to take a backwards view of our constitutions. It’s not that the government is all powerful except things it agrees it won’t do in a bill of rights, and it can do anything and everything except those few listed items. It’s supposed to be that the constitution gives certain power to the government. This is the very first point made the Florida Constitution. The Florida Constitution is constructed around the idea of local governance, letting the governor just assume direct control of local government flies in the face of the entire system of governance established by the constitution.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
I think when someone suggests "the governor", they are assuming with support from the legislature.

The governor, with support from the legislature, has a great deal of power as long as it does not violate the Florida or U.S. Constitution.
Even then, where is the legislature given the power to hand a local government over to the governor? The Florida Constitution does not posit an all powerful state that can do anything it desires unless specifically restricted.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
I think when someone suggests "the governor", they are assuming with support from the legislature.

The governor, with support from the legislature, has a great deal of power as long as it does not violate the Florida or U.S. Constitution.
That power certainly has to have limits though. A court can still rule that a law violates the intent of the FL constitution even if the action is not explicitly spelled out there. This is very common at all levels of government. The constitution (State or Federal) is not intended to address every unique situation. I do not believe any rational person would think the intent of the clauses on local governance in the FL constitutions were intended to provide the Governor and/or legislature a loophole to just do whatever they want and crush the will of the people and local taxpayers. If that is the case why have a constitution at all? Just have one sentence that says the Governor can do whatever he wants as long as the legislature agrees with him.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
This is not "the will of the people" or "local taxpayers". This is a powerful corporation headquartered in California with annual revenue $67 billion.
Reedy Creek Improvement District is not legally linked to The Walt Disney Company. They are not one in the same. The de facto control is a situation that can be changed and does not change the District. The governor being able to take control of the District absolutely sets the precedent that the executive can take control of local governing bodies and exclude the local stakeholders from say in local governance.
 

lentesta

Premium Member
Even then, where is the legislature given the power to hand a local government over to the governor? The Florida Constitution does not posit an all powerful state that can do anything it desires unless specifically restricted.

I‘m speculating, so I could be wrong.

I can’t find anything in the FL Constitution that says special district officials have to be elected. I’m trying to figure out what else prohibits the governor from just appointing his own oversight.
 

lentesta

Premium Member
If it's a new special district though, would they automatically inherit all of the bylaws of Reedy Creek? I'm not sure that that is the case.

If the governor creates a new special district, it's not Reedy Creek anymore. It's something new and independent. I think at that point the defaults in the constitution would apply to it unless otherwise voted on by the landowners.

Assume they merge and the merged district is still called RCID, with the exactly the same everything as before, except the governor appoints a majority of district officials.

The question is whether the FL Constitution prohibits this.
 

mikejs78

Well-Known Member
Assume they merge and the merged district is still called RCID, with the exactly the same everything as before, except the governor appoints a majority of district officials.

The question is whether the FL Constitution prohibits this.
What would stop Disney from changing the tax rate before the government took over?
 

mikejs78

Well-Known Member
RCID is a special district. As of September 2014, there were 146 independent special districts within Florida that the governor controlled:

View attachment 642417


The governor taking control of an independent special district such as RCID does not break new ground.

IMO, the questions are:
  • How were these 146 existing independent special district boards formed?
  • Can the governor (with support from the legislature) legally take control over RCID without Disney's consent?
Keeping in mind that the Florida Supreme Court majority consists of conservative justices, and conservative justices tend to be textualists, what can we find in the Florida Constitution that will give us some idea of how they might rule on cases that come before them? Can we find passages that stop the governor (with legislative support) from doing what he's trying to do?
Paging @LAKid53
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
RCID is a special district. As of September 2014, there were 146 independent special districts within Florida that the governor controlled:

View attachment 642417


The governor taking control of an independent special district such as RCID does not break new ground.

IMO, the questions are:
  • How were these 146 existing independent special district boards formed?
  • Can the governor (with support from the legislature) legally take control over RCID without Disney's consent?
Keeping in mind that the Florida Supreme Court majority consists of conservative justices, and conservative justices tend to be textualists, what can we find in the Florida Constitution that will give us some idea of how they might rule on cases that come before them? Can we find passages that stop the governor (with legislative support) from doing what he's trying to do?
Appointed does not mean exclusively appointed by the governor.
 

lentesta

Premium Member
Keeping in mind that the Florida Supreme Court majority consists of conservative justices, and conservative justices tend to be textualists, what can we find in the Florida Constitution that will give us some idea of how they might rule on cases that come before them? Can we find passages that stop the governor (with legislative support) from doing what he's trying to do?

I think we have to first define how the governor will gain control of the RCID board, because some options might conflict with the Florida Constitution ("FLC").

Assume any time I say "governor" here, I also mean "with the legislature's help". For example, the legislature could repeal the RCID's "conflicts with future legislation" clause. (I know they haven't done this, and that the supremacy clause has survived a couple of legal challenges already, and that the existing dissolution law might not survive similar challenges.)

Option 1: The governor simply "packs" the RCID board through appointment, with no other changes to the RCID.

Option 2: The governor creates a new ISD, appoints the board, and forces a merger with RCID.

If I'm reading the FLC correctly, both options would create a conflict within the RCID board itself: Elected members would be subject to the FLC's "Ethics in Government" rules (Article II, Section 8, f(1) and 3(c)), but members appointed by the governor would not (because the language uses the "elected" qualifier).

It seems like ... there would be FLC issues with that.

Do any existing special districts have a setup where some members are elected and some are appointed?

Edit: Answered my own question. There's a website that lets you search Florida special districts by characteristic, including election methods and powers.

There are no special districts with bond-issuance and ad valorem authority whose board consists of both elected and appointed members in Florida.

Edit 2: Setting aside the bond powers, there's only one board (the Juvenile Welfare Board of Pinellas County) in the entire state with these two:
  • Ad valorem power
  • A board that consists of appointed AND elected officials
My bad legal take is that a SD with bond and ad valorem authority, having a mixed-seating board, creates an equal protection problem under the FLC. Some members are bound by Article II, Section 8, and others are not.
 
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GoofGoof

Premium Member
This is not "the will of the people" or "local taxpayers". This is a powerful corporation headquartered in California with annual revenue $67 billion.

The legislative, judicial, and executive branches all have long histories of regulating large companies when they think they have stepped over the line. In the past, corporations have been, to use your word, "crushed."

As I've repeatedly emphasized, I believe Disney's First Amendment rights were violated (based on Citizens United). Still, the mega-billion-dollar Disney conglomerate is not "the people" or "local taxpayers".

The current discussion focuses on ways the Florida legislature might have violated the Florida Constitution. You might recall an earlier discussion I instigated regarding the current makeup of the Florida Supreme Court. Thus, when you write:

A court can still rule that a law violates the intent of the FL constitution even if the action is not explicitly spelled out there. This is very common at all levels of government.​

When it comes to interpreting the Florida Constitution, this depends on the judicial philosophy of the Florida Supreme Court. If an explicit violation of the Florida Constitution cannot be found, will the Florida Supreme Court function as an activist court to rule that the Florida legislature has somehow passed "a law violates the intent of the FL constitution even if the action is not explicitly spelled out there"?

Currently, the Florida Supreme Court is dominated by conservative justices. Historically, conservative justices tend to be textualists.

With this in mind, we need to closely examine the text of the Florida Constitution to get a sense of how the Florida Supreme Court might rule on future cases.
This is all just political spin. TWDC is a corporation headquartered in CA. If they were headquartered in FL would that make a difference? Legally, I can’t see how but its a political talking point. How much money they make certainly has no bearing legally. A land owner is a landowner and Walt Disney World is part of Florida and they pay plenty of taxes. This is not the case of a corporation stepping over the line. They are causing no harm to the state or the local taxpayers. They provide hundreds of thousands of jobs directly and indirectly to the state.

This action also sets precedent and if the courts allow it then that leaves the door open for almost unlimited authority for the state government to seize control of local governments if and when they see fit and replace elected officials. The bills passed so far do not even mention RCID let alone TWDC. They are dissolving all special districts formed before a certain time. In order to pack the board of a new district formed the Governor would be taking unprecedented action and removing all control of a local government from the local taxpayers, including potentially 2 incorporated cities.

What if the governor decided to dissolve Orange County itself over something like Covid restrictions (remember the fights last year over masks) and then reformed the county but put his own officials in place instead of elected representatives. If this action against RCID is done in general terms it could set a precedent and could be used as the basis to allow the hypothetical scenario I suggested above to happen. I believe if that had happened last year and they attempted to use the loopholes described here a court would have shot him down. If this is allowed to continue and the Gov’s plan works then he’d have the legal precedent to supersede any elected local government, especially if the FL Supreme Court rules in favor of him. The court needs to take a longer term view and recognize the implications. I don’t think just because a judge is conservative and the Governor is a Republican that means they will automatically allow this. Most judges recognize the importance of an independent judiciary branch.
 

Brian

Well-Known Member
This is all just political spin. TWDC is a corporation headquartered in CA. If they were headquartered in FL would that make a difference? Legally, I can’t see how but its a political talking point. How much money they make certainly has no bearing legally. A land owner is a landowner and Walt Disney World is part of Florida and they pay plenty of taxes. This is not the case of a corporation stepping over the line. They are causing no harm to the state or the local taxpayers. They provide hundreds of thousands of jobs directly and indirectly to the state.

This action also sets precedent and if the courts allow it then that leaves the door open for almost unlimited authority for the state government to seize control of local governments if and when they see fit and replace elected officials. The bills passed so far do not even mention RCID let alone TWDC. They are dissolving all special districts formed before a certain time. In order to pack the board of a new district formed the Governor would be taking unprecedented action and removing all control of a local government from the local taxpayers, including potentially 2 incorporated cities.

What if the governor decided to dissolve Orange County itself over something like Covid restrictions (remember the fights last year over masks) and then reformed the county but put his own officials in place instead of elected representatives. If this action against RCID is done in general terms it could set a precedent and could be used as the basis to allow the hypothetical scenario I suggested above to happen. I believe if that had happened last year and they attempted to use the loopholes described here a court would have shot him down. If this is allowed to continue and the Gov’s plan works then he’d have the legal precedent to supersede any elected local government, especially if the FL Supreme Court rules in favor of him. The court needs to take a longer term view and recognize the implications. I don’t think just because a judge is conservative and the Governor is a Republican that means they will automatically allow this. Most judges recognize the importance of an independent judiciary branch.
Two things can be true at once - the governor could have legitimate concerns about powerful and influential companies who push values which he feels are not aligned with those of his constituents, while at the same time being out of line in trying to exert government power by taking over a special district in an attempt to improve the situation.
 

mikejs78

Well-Known Member
Two things can be true at once - the governor could have legitimate concerns about powerful and influential companies who push values which he feels are not aligned with those of his constituents, while at the same time being out of line in trying to exert government power by taking over a special district in an attempt to improve the situation.
I agree with this. Even though I don't agree with DeSantis on the legislation itself that triggered all of this, nor his concerns about Disney, it would have been perfectly within his rights for him to engage in a constant drum beat of criticism against Disney, organization against Disney in the private sector - organizing boycotts, etc.

Where he crossed the line is trying to use legislative action as retaliation for the opinion of a corporation.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
Two things can be true at once - the governor could have legitimate concerns about powerful and influential companies who push values which he feels are not aligned with those of his constituents, while at the same time being out of line in trying to exert government power by taking over a special district in an attempt to improve the situation.
I don’t disagree. The Governor is absolutely allowed to oppose Disney and oppose their political point of view. That’s the basis of our democracy, we all have a right to an opinion, even elected officials. As I said many pages ago, an appropriate response would have been public opposition and it would have even been fine to call for a boycott of their products and services if he felt that was necessary and it was done in the capacity of a concerned citizen and not using state employee time or resources. What’s completely inappropriate is using the power of the government (entrusted to you by the people) to attack a political adversary.
 

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