News Reedy Creek Improvement District and the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District

mikejs78

Premium Member
Or maybe I would prefer an RCID with a narrowed scope and greater oversight by the local community. One where voters (you know actual voters and not cast members living Disney's corporate trailer park) have a greater say over how the RCID is developed and public funds are spent. At least the pretense of some representative government.

Why? Is the greater commuity paying for it?

Here's the thing: property taxes in FL are limited by the FL constitution to 10%. Disney currently pays that to Orange/Osecola counties just like everyone else and is subject to their jurisdiction. This 10% cannot be changed, except temporarily and by a vote of the electorate, but even then the tax rate would have to apply to *all* taxpayers in the county. Disney is still subject to all county regulations and laws, save for those that are reserved to the district around zoning and building codes (of which RCID's codes are stricter than general FL. building codes).

Disney pays an *additional* tax, I think around 10%, to the district. The FL constitution allows a higher tax rate to be set in law for a special district, as long as it is approved by the electorate in that district. Those taxes go to the infrastructure in that district. No funds from the counties paid by the general public go into the district.

So why should non-taxpayers in the district have a say on the infrastructure needs of those who are paying taxes in the district? It doesn't make any sense.

It's also worth noting that every single special district in the state of Florida that has taxing authority is governed by an elected board of those who either reside in the district or are landowners of the district - so Disney's situation is hardly unique. So why should Disney not be allowed to avail themselves of the same benefits that are given to Universal Studios, the Daytona Speedway, the Villages, and other Special Districts within the state of Florida?
 

Marionnette

Well-Known Member
I don’t think you understand how the District works, the taxes they are spending is almost 90% paid by Disney, the remaining 10% by other land owners in the district. The residents of orange and Osceola counties are paying $0 to the District.
Regardless of who pays the taxes or how much they pay, businesses should not have representation on a government board. They can advocate for candidates of their choice to sit on that board but they should not be "given" representation just because of the amount they pay in taxes.

We own a business that is not in our town. We don't get to vote on issues in the town where our business is located. We pay property taxes just like every property owner in that town. We benefit from municipal services that those taxes help to fund. However, we don't get a say in how those tax dollars are spent. The town could decide to do away with the trash service, increase the number of persons on the city council, eliminate street cleaning etc. and we would have no voice.
 

mikejs78

Premium Member
Regardless of who pays the taxes or how much they pay, businesses should not have representation on a government board. They can advocate for candidates of their choice to sit on that board but they should not be "given" representation just because of the amount they pay in taxes.

We own a business that is not in our town. We don't get to vote on issues in the town where our business is located. We pay property taxes just like every property owner in that town. We benefit from municipal services that those taxes help to fund. However, we don't get a say in how those tax dollars are spent. The town could decide to do away with the trash service, increase the number of persons on the city council, eliminate street cleaning etc. and we would have no voice.
So who should decide? There are no residents in the district other than a few Disney employees.
 

mmascari

Well-Known Member
Or maybe I would prefer an RCID with a narrowed scope and greater oversight by the local community.
Can you give an example of someone who is in the RCID local community? Someone within it's borders not a neighbor of the local community.

One where voters (you know actual voters and not cast members living Disney's corporate trailer park) have a greater say over how the RCID is developed and public funds are spent.
Can you give an example of a voter that is within the RCID border, or even someone who pays taxes to create those funds being spent that doesn't already have a say?

At least the pretense of some representative government.
Can you give an example of someone within the RCID border, and hence subject to RCID government that is not being represented?

Is there some population of dozens or hundreds of people that are being taken advantage of that we're all ignoring here?


As a note, anyone that lives in Celebration, Winter Garden, Citrus Ridge, Orlando, none of them are examples. None of them voters, pay taxes, and are not subject to any RCID governance.
 

cmwerman

New Member
It has become more and more apparent that the only thing Gilzean, Garcia and the CFTOD board are good at is fabricating things to attempt to legitimize their cause. The facts are, that Desantis' agenda and the board are taking a well run district and destroying it. Hopefully, Disney will prevail in its legal battle and attempts to restore Reedy Creek to it's original configuration are successful.
 

mmascari

Well-Known Member
When the board says tax payers, they are primarily talking about and avoiding saying “Disney”.
They're actively trying to imply incorrectly that its everybody and make people think that it's John Doe FL resident that is paying for stuff. When they say "tax payers" they're typically misdirecting on purpose to imply something false.

Likewise, they'll say something like "Disney has control" instead of "tax payers have control" for the same reason, to imply something incorrectly.

Something like "Disney has all the control and tax payers have all the burden". Sound nefarious. What if we change it to "Tax payers have all the control and Disney has all the burden", then sounds like Disney is getting a poor deal. Both those statements are the same.

A better one would be "Tax payers have all the control and tax payers have all the burden" to represent how the district used to work. Of course today it is "Unaccountable appointed board has all the control and tax payers have all the burden".
 

mmascari

Well-Known Member
We own a business that is not in our town. We don't get to vote on issues in the town where our business is located.
So your issue is with Special Districts as a whole where voting is based on property ownership instead of residency? Just do away with them all then, since that's how most of them are structured. It is certainly not unique to RCID.

That voting difference of property ownership instead of residency is reflective of the powers these government entities have.
 

sedati

Well-Known Member
Some seem appalled that Disney artfully crafted a beneficial deal way back when . And we know how much some despise The Art Of The Deal and champion Common rules for everyone.
 
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Marionnette

Well-Known Member
So who should decide? There are no residents in the district other than a few Disney employees.
And why is that? Because when Celebration and Golden Oaks were built, the RCID de-annexed those developments in order to prevent those residents from voting in the district. There was supposed to be an actual town built when the RCID was created. That town (the original EPCOT plan) was never built.
 

mkt

When a paradise is lost go straight to Disney™
Premium Member
And why is that? Because when Celebration and Golden Oaks were built, the RCID de-annexed those developments in order to prevent those residents from voting in the district. There was supposed to be an actual town built when the RCID was created. That town (the original EPCOT plan) was never built.
So you're not upset that the 53 actual residents in the towns of Bay Lake and Lake Buena Vista (ie RCID) live in an area governed by political appointees, when they previously could vote for who represented them.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
And why is that? Because when Celebration and Golden Oaks were built, the RCID de-annexed those developments in order to prevent those residents from voting in the district. There was supposed to be an actual town built when the RCID was created. That town (the original EPCOT plan) was never built.
This has been covered extensively. The district was not conditioned on the building of EPCOT. Even then, being residents would not have given the people of Celebration and Golden Oak voting rights in the district. Being landowners is what would have made them voters but EPCOT as envisioned by Walt was only going to offer housing for rent.
 

castlecake2.0

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
This has been covered extensively. The district was not conditioned on the building of EPCOT. Even then, being residents would not have given the people of Celebration and Golden Oak voting rights in the district. Being landowners is what would have made them voters but EPCOT as envisioned by Walt was only going to offer housing for rent.
Every other week someone chimes in that has no idea what they’re talking or fighting about
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
Can you give an example of someone who is in the RCID local community? Someone within it's borders not a neighbor of the local community.
There is something to be said for 'not operating as an island'. In reality, we expect entities to interact and work together with their neighbors. We don't expect entities to take NIMBY to the extreme, but expect them to work for the 'common good' even if that means tradeoffs or consequences for their own interests if the net gain for the union is better.

Example, counties working together to build infrastructure and sharing costs, even if not exactly proportioned to their own physical presence. Or planning infrastructure together - to create systems instead of disjointed messes. Or counties/cities collaborating on where things should go... in relation to other comparable or inter-dependent services.. instead of looking at their boundaries as uncrossable lines. Example: Where a hospital may be placed.

That said, that doesn't mean it's all charity... it doesn't mean we should expect entity A to carry entity B's bag for them.

The problem with the narrative being spun by the CFTOD board now is... they are taking these ideas to the extreme and painting the absence of something within the district as an abuse on it's neighbors. Instead of saying "creating jobs was good for the region" - they are spinning the story that RCID empowered Disney from paying it's share of it's impact to the area because the district didn't build the elements to support those jobs and allowed Disney to escape paying it's share to provide those services. Like social services, housing, etc. That the district didn't plan for supporting the burden of that development, but instead laid out a plan that served only Disney's development needs.

I mean, yes, there is a side of truth in that - the land management is setup to support Disney's initiatives - not general community development. But if that is "wrong" or not, is where the board's conclusions are completely slanted and presumptuous. Should Reed Creek have been a self-sustaining community with housing, community needs, hospitals, schools, etc? If this were just unincorporated land with a local goverment setup trying to drive growth of the population... maybe? But that's not what Reedy Creek was, and not what it's actual landowners were trying to do.

This is where the disconnect between governance and representation in the CFTOD is fatal and problematic.

What do you want your area to be? Rural Farmland? Thriving Suburbs? Urban metroplex? Every area of the country faces such debates all the time, and local governments manage these topics based on the idea of providing sound representation of their constituents and their desires. Their job is to be stewards of the common good of their constituents and that includes interacting and often interweaving with their adjacencies and inter-dependent governments. If they try to shape your region into something the residents don't want.. residents will replace them.

Reedy Creek was never a general purpose area that would be develped into general purpose self-sustaining communities. It's absurd that the CFTOD is painting that picture that RCID failed to deliver on that... because it's a false premise to begin with. And it's not what the actual constituents of the district wanted for the area either.

The whole impact fees and other planning omissions they are trying to spin into failures now are all based on false assumptions from the get go. And being done so to paint the idea of developing RCID into Disney's kingdom as an abuse -- instead of accepting it was an execution of a plan that served the audience as actually intended.
 

Brian

Well-Known Member
So you're not upset that the 53 actual residents in the towns of Bay Lake and Lake Buena Vista (ie RCID) live in an area governed by political appointees, when they previously could vote for who represented them.
This leaves out the fact that the voters of Bay Lake and Lake Buena Vista were chosen by Disney to live there, and can be asked to leave at the company's discretion. Not exactly what one would imagine when they think of "democracy."
 

castlecake2.0

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
This leaves out the fact that the voters of Bay Lake and Lake Buena Vista were chosen by Disney to live there, and can be asked to leave at the company's discretion. Not exactly what one would imagine when they think of "democracy."
No one had ever been asked to leave either town by “the Company”. There’s actually some sentinel articles out there with interviews with the residents who said they don’t just rubber stamp things.
 

Brian

Well-Known Member
No one had ever been asked to leave either town by “the Company”. There’s actually some sentinel articles out there with interviews with the residents who said they don’t just rubber stamp things.
That's correct. My only point was to clarify that Bay Lake and Lake Buena Vista were not some emblem of American democracy that suddenly got ripped away from the voters by DeSantis' actions.
 

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