Rapid Fill Mug Program Fails (at more ways than you might think)

[shernernum]

So how do you think most retail establishments work and have worked for ages? Do you really think every store in the country that doesn't have security on staff and ready to jump into action should just ignore all theft?

Are Disney soda thieves some new high risk category of customers... ready to go postal if confronted?

Sorry, this is just pandering to Disney's complete lack of trust of their front line employees. You train people on how to do it, and if it causes a scene, you get security. When the word would get out that Disney isn't allowing it anymore, abuse would plummet. The few that still need to steal.. who cares.

Most retail and F & B establishments that have multiple units (in other words corporate structure and not a Mom and Pop) have policies which discourage regular line staff from confronting thieves or shoplifters directly for many reasons: liability, danger, lack of experience...etc. There were articles on this a few years ago, but right now I am too lazy to look them up. Some of them use Security/Loss Prevention personnel if the places have them. Others call police and use video systems (and only if the amount stolen was worth the effort) but unless the places have security on duty, it is very rare that a regular staff person is encouraged to confront or detain someone under suspicion of stealing anything.

 

[Jon81uk]

Funny how every Cumberland Farms, White Hen,Wawa and 7-11 can profitably sell soft drinks for .99 without the need for armed security and RFID

Do they invite you to come up for a free refill? or do you fill a cup then take it to the register?
I think the fact that a free refill is offered is partly why people then try to fill other cups as they think "well I paid $18 for as much as I can get, that means I can fill a gallon bottle now". Whereas in a convenience store it is usually quite obvious that you are paying for one cup and you can't just walk in and help yourself to more than you paid for.

 

[Tom P.]

Funny how every Cumberland Farms, White Hen,Wawa and 7-11 can profitably sell soft drinks for .99 without the need for armed security and RFID

These businesses have a very different business model.

When you are in your neighborhood 7-11, chances are there are 5 similar competing convenience stores within a minute or two of your location. And for most customers, they have little to no devotion to one particular store. If the 7-11 started raising prices or making things less convenient, the customer would just go to the Speedway down the street. It is in 7-11's best business interest to make things as easy and inexpensive as possible for the customer in order to keep their business, even if it means they might have to absorb some losses from theft or forego some potential profit by keeping their prices low.

Disney, OTOH, has a more or less captive audience and one which is relatively loyal. These are people who want to be at Walt Disney World and do not feel they have a comparable product down the road that they can choose. When someone is already spending thousands of dollars to not only be at Walt Disney World, but also to be staying on property at a Disney resort, and they go to the food court to grab lunch, they are not very likely to leave because they have to wait 3 minutes until their next soda refill. While some people might get frustrated enough to go eat elsewhere or to buy their drinks from another location, I'd venture to say that number as a percentage of the total resort guests is extremely low. I know that for me personally, the savings I could get by driving to a nearby Walmart and buying a case of soda is offset by the convenience of grabbing a drink with my refillable mug right at my resort. Disney, therefore, does not have the same market pressures that 7-11 does to make things cheap and convenient.

 

[Laketravis]

When someone is already spending thousands of dollars to not only be at Walt Disney World, but also to be staying on property at a Disney resort...........

..........they may feel that they should be able redeem their "unlimited" beverage purchase as often as they'd like. Note that some hotel chains (Drury, for example) have fountain dispensers and cups in their lobby/dining areas that are accessible 24 hours a day without restraint and their use is encouraged as a perk.

 

[ford91exploder]

Do they invite you to come up for a free refill? or do you fill a cup then take it to the register?
I think the fact that a free refill is offered is partly why people then try to fill other cups as they think "well I paid $18 for as much as I can get, that means I can fill a gallon bottle now". Whereas in a convenience store it is usually quite obvious that you are paying for one cup and you can't just walk in and help yourself to more than you paid for.

Interestingly this is the same problem as was seen in the early days of home video high prices led to rampant theft then technical solutions were applied (Macrovision) RapidFill.

Finally someone experimented with lowering the price and theft dropped to nothing. The same was seen with apple and ITunes for music

Disneys price exceeding the perceived value leads directly to theft and the self justification of those committing it Further its whole 'competing B/Us' occupying the same space which leads to this situation because every one is being graded for margin and there are few items with better margin than soft drinks

The drink entitlement could more reasonably be tied to the magic band with a hourly volume limit.

Heck it could be included in the upcoming resort fee

 

[ford91exploder]

..........they may feel that they should be able redeem their "unlimited" beverage purchase as often as they'd like. Note that some hotel chains (Drury, for example) have fountain dispensers and cups in their lobby/dining areas that are accessible 24 hours a day without restraint and their use is encouraged as a perk.

Precisely the model Disney should emulate. Their model of leave nothing un monetized is damaging the Disney brand as a whole

 

[ford91exploder]

These businesses have a very different business model.

When you are in your neighborhood 7-11, chances are there are 5 similar competing convenience stores within a minute or two of your location. And for most customers, they have little to no devotion to one particular store. If the 7-11 started raising prices or making things less convenient, the customer would just go to the Speedway down the street. It is in 7-11's best business interest to make things as easy and inexpensive as possible for the customer in order to keep their business, even if it means they might have to absorb some losses from theft or forego some potential profit by keeping their prices low.

Disney, OTOH, has a more or less captive audience and one which is relatively loyal. These are people who want to be at Walt Disney World and do not feel they have a comparable product down the road that they can choose. When someone is already spending thousands of dollars to not only be at Walt Disney World, but also to be staying on property at a Disney resort, and they go to the food court to grab lunch, they are not very likely to leave because they have to wait 3 minutes until their next soda refill. While some people might get frustrated enough to go eat elsewhere or to buy their drinks from another location, I'd venture to say that number as a percentage of the total resort guests is extremely low. I know that for me personally, the savings I could get by driving to a nearby Walmart and buying a case of soda is offset by the convenience of grabbing a drink with my refillable mug right at my resort. Disney, therefore, does not have the same market pressures that 7-11 does to make things cheap and convenient.

Yet when you bring 6-8 people to a GV the overpriced mug pales in comparison to spending 40-60 bucks for a few cases of everyone's favorites drinks which are then right in the room with you

 

[ford91exploder]

Hey, instead of the rapid fill. A better complaint is the bakery cabinet in the resort qs/food court area. I was at Polynesian Saturday and was about to get delicious cheese Danish but a hoard of flies were underneath it. Lol

Once again the huge cuts Disney has made are affecting basic sanitation in food service areas. If my local mom-n-pop (literally) bakery can have a fly free display case why for the love of Pete cannot Disney do at least as well

 

[Tom P.]

..........they may feel that they should be able redeem their "unlimited" beverage purchase as often as they'd like. Note that some hotel chains (Drury, for example) have fountain dispensers and cups in their lobby/dining areas that are accessible 24 hours a day without restraint and their use is encouraged as a perk.

I guarantee you that if RapidFill were negatively impacting Disney's sales of refillable mugs, resort rooms, dining plans, meals, or anything else, that Disney would change it posthaste. You may think that RapidFill represents some major inconvenience to the customer. Most customers do not. Disney has no motivation to change until the customers -- as a whole, not a small subset on a forum -- want them to. I, for one, am fine with the RapidFill system as it exists now. There are about 1,342 other things I'd suggest to Disney before worrying about how often I can refill my mug.

 

[Jon81uk]

Interestingly this is the same problem as was seen in the early days of home video high prices led to rampant theft then technical solutions were applied (Macrovision) RapidFill.

Finally someone experimented with lowering the price and theft dropped to nothing. The same was seen with apple and ITunes for music

Disneys price exceeding the perceived value leads directly to theft and the self justification of those committing it Further its whole 'competing B/Us' occupying the same space which leads to this situation because every one is being graded for margin and there are few items with better margin than soft drinks

The drink entitlement could more reasonably be tied to the magic band with a hourly volume limit.

Heck it could be included in the upcoming resort fee

Well they tried being more sensible when they started RapidFill and they offered 1, 3, 5 and length of stay uses. But I guess that was harder to enforce when a three day user just says my mug stopped working and the cashier just reactivated even if the guest couldn't prove they bought length of stay.

It does seem wrong that I pay the same for two weeks of use as someone else who only stays four days. I think when purchasing the cashier should read the magic band, code the mug for the check out date and there are no extensions permitted. Could be charged as a fixed fee for short use then so much per day (so $9.99 for three days plus 75c per day would be similar cost to current prices for 14 night trip).

 

[Tom P.]

Yet when you bring 6-8 people to a GV the overpriced mug pales in comparison to spending 40-60 bucks for a few cases of everyone's favorites drinks which are then right in the room with you

Well, I don't know about grand villas. But I do know that for our family, we buy the dining plan, use the mugs, and don't mess with buying cases of soda for the room. That's our personal preference. Yours is different. That's fine. But the refillable mug and dining plan programs are obviously enticing enough customers that Disney feels the system as it exists now is working for them financially.

 

[flynnibus]

Most retail and F & B establishments that have multiple units (in other words corporate structure and not a Mom and Pop) have policies which discourage regular line staff from confronting thieves or shoplifters directly for many reasons: liability, danger, lack of experience...etc.

Don't convolute the issue with comparing to shoplifting. That has it's own complexities and generally as you say, people are instructed to report to the proper people, not act out alone. But that doesn't mean 'ignore it' - that means engage the people trained to handle it. But shoplifting is an entirely different subject. And even in those cases... they don't ignore the problem, they come up with deterrants.. like creating staff locations near the entrance... putting up monitors to re-enforce that you are on camera.. etc.

Focus on policies, not crimes.. and the acceptance of engaging with the customer is more accepted. For instance, walk into best buy and try to put something inappropriate on the stereo blaring loudly.. someone will engage you. Go into a store where the displays say "do not touch" and you start pulling them down and handling them.. someone will engage you. Walk into a McDolands with a KFC bucket, a big gulp cup, and fill up and start having your meal at a table.. someone will engage you.

Let's draw a simpler comparison for everyone. Someone sits down and lights up a cigar in the food court.. do you expect a CM will address the person, or do you suggest the right answer is 'do nothing' because they can't risk confronting an guest?

Even if Disney doesn't train all staff to handle the situation.. they could train them to engage the proper person instead of just IGNORING IT. If Old Navy, Target, and countless other retailers can afford to put a radio on all the staffers on the floor... Disney, who charges 2-3x normal rates, can't somehow figure out how to work out how to stop people breaking policies?

Maybe we should all just walk right past the cashiers in the food courts with our trays and see just how soon before Disney will somehow figure out how to 'allow' CMs to communicate with the guest breaking policy.

 

[G00fyDad]

 

[ford91exploder]

Well, I don't know about grand villas. But I do know that for our family, we buy the dining plan, use the mugs, and don't mess with buying cases of soda for the room. That's our personal preference. Yours is different. That's fine. But the refillable mug and dining plan programs are obviously enticing enough customers that Disney feels the system as it exists now is working for them financially.

Dining plan simply not worth the money sorry and it has not been for a very long time

 

[Tom P.]

Dining plan simply not worth the money sorry and it has not been for a very long time

Perhaps it isn't for you, and that's fine. We are a family of 7, and we generally manage to get the free dining promotion. While people on these forums often like to talk about how the dining plan itself is a bad value or that free dining is not a good promotion, for us it most definitely saves us significant money over any of the room discount options that are available. I've done the math many times, and I'm talking about significant savings, in the order of over $1,000 in savings versus the room discount, because of the particular resorts we stay at and the number of people in our family.

 

[G00fyDad]

Perhaps it isn't for you, and that's fine. We are a family of 7, and we generally manage to get the free dining promotion. While people on these forums often like to talk about how the dining plan itself is a bad value or that free dining is not a good promotion, for us it most definitely saves us significant money over any of the room discount options that are available. I've done the math many times, and I'm talking about significant savings, in the order of over $1,000 in savings versus the room discount, because of the particular resorts we stay at and the number of people in our family.

Everyone should always evaluate the plan to see if it saves money. It used to for us but then we started breaking even and then it started to cost more so we stopped using it. I still evaluate it each trip to see if things have changed but so far, nope.

A person needs to take their time and go through the menus to see what each comparable meal each day will come to (approx) for the entire group. Add that up and then add up to total for all the days. Compare it to the DDP and see what saves more. We would use the Regular DDP since we like certain table service locations. I make sure that I choose the places to eat that equal a Regular DDP schedule then compare that to the plan price. We have been better off paying out of pocket for the past 3 trips. I also do this same thing for the Quick Service DDP and just leave all the TS locations off the list. It sounds pretty convoluted but it works to save us the most $.

 

[larryz]

Disney, OTOH, has a more or less captive audience and one which is relatively loyal. These are people who want to be at Walt Disney World and do not feel they have a comparable product down the road that they can choose.

Well, that used to be the case. I'm hearing more and more people express their frustration with the Nickle and Dime philosophy WDW's presenting, and a seldom-before-seen proclivity toward splitting their Orlando vacation time between WDW and US/IOA.

 

[flynnibus]

These businesses have a very different business model.

When you are in your neighborhood 7-11, chances are there are 5 similar competing convenience stores within a minute or two of your location. And for most customers, they have little to no devotion to one particular store. If the 7-11 started raising prices or making things less convenient, the customer would just go to the Speedway down the street. It is in 7-11's best business interest to make things as easy and inexpensive as possible for the customer in order to keep their business, even if it means they might have to absorb some losses from theft or forego some potential profit by keeping their prices low.

Disney, OTOH, has a more or less captive audience and one which is relatively loyal. These are people who want to be at Walt Disney World and do not feel they have a comparable product down the road that they can choose. When someone is already spending thousands of dollars to not only be at Walt Disney World, but also to be staying on property at a Disney resort, and they go to the food court to grab lunch, they are not very likely to leave because they have to wait 3 minutes until their next soda refill. While some people might get frustrated enough to go eat elsewhere or to buy their drinks from another location, I'd venture to say that number as a percentage of the total resort guests is extremely low. I know that for me personally, the savings I could get by driving to a nearby Walmart and buying a case of soda is offset by the convenience of grabbing a drink with my refillable mug right at my resort. Disney, therefore, does not have the same market pressures that 7-11 does to make things cheap and convenient.

Funny... 'customer satisfaction' used to be part of Disney's business model... not simply 'they have limited alternatives... muhahahaha'

 

[ford91exploder]

Everyone should always evaluate the plan to see if it saves money. It used to for us but then we started breaking even and then it started to cost more so we stopped using it. I still evaluate it each trip to see if things have changed but so far, nope.

A person needs to take their time and go through the menus to see what each comparable meal each day will come to (approx) for the entire group. Add that up and then add up to total for all the days. Compare it to the DDP and see what saves more. We would use the Regular DDP since we like certain table service locations. I make sure that I choose the places to eat that equal a Regular DDP schedule then compare that to the plan price. We have been better off paying out of pocket for the past 3 trips. I also do this same thing for the Quick Service DDP and just leave all the TS locations off the list. It sounds pretty convoluted but it works to save us the most $.

Excellent post this SHOULD be a sticky as for dining you should always evaluate the options

 

[Tom P.]

Funny... 'customer satisfaction' used to be part of Disney's business model... not simply 'they have limited alternatives... muhahahaha'

I agree with that. I'm not arguing that they should not change some things. I'm giving you reasons why I don't think they are motivated to do so at this time.

Excellent post this SHOULD be a sticky as for dining you should always evaluate the options

I agree with the advice that everyone should evaluate the options and I understand that the dining plan (and free dining even) is not necessarily a good option for every person. But I also don't think it is automatically a bad option for every person either, and your original post simply made a blanket statement that the dining plan was not a good value. That's not always the case.