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Project Gemini-The Truth
- Thread starter ISTCrew20
- Start date
Tim G
Well-Known Member
Re: Re: PG good
as a "New Town" for actual Florida residents based on the urban concepts of planner Victor Gruen.
However, because of Walt Disney's death, it was never built.
The concept drawings for this gigantic and rarely discussed project tellingly reveal Disney's evolving urban vision.
His theme parks inspired his plans to reform the American city.
Disney's original Experimental Prototype Community Of Tomorrow (EPCOT), or Project X, was planned
as a "New Town" for actual Florida residents based on the urban concepts of planner Victor Gruen.
However, because of Walt Disney's death, it was never built.
The concept drawings for this gigantic and rarely discussed project tellingly reveal Disney's evolving urban vision.
His theme parks inspired his plans to reform the American city.
pax_65
Well-Known Member
In This Case, Change Is Good!
First of all, let me just say that EPCOT is perhaps my favorite park, and Futureworld is my favorite part of EPCOT. So when I first heard about PG I was NOT happy.
But for the most part, I LIKE the sound of it! Just because SE is going to go faster instead of clunk clunking along from one scene to another doesn't necessarily mean it will lose all meaning and educational value. SE is one of my favorite rides of all time, but let's face it... it could use some updating!
People go to the park to be entertained, to have fun. EPCOT can still be an educational park, but there needs to be a balance there. I think Test Track is an excellent example of how this can work. It sounds like they are using that as a model for Time Racers and probably for Mission Space as well.
Innoventions can be changed for sure. Living Seas could use the update. The coaster near The Land sounds exciting and fun... I would ride it!
Probably only two things make me sad... first, I'd hate to see EPCOT lose its futuristic "look". I worry the trees will make it look like Animal Kingdom or something! Second, I'd be sorry to see "Wonder of Life" close. I'd rather see it get updated than close entirely... but who knows? Maybe something great will replace it.
If we're afraid to change at all, we stand in the way of progress. Yes, I miss Horizons, World of Motion, and even Mr. Toad's Wild Ride (for crying out loud!). But I do believe the rides that replaced them are BETTER than the old rides (I'm assuming MS will be better than Horizons, we'll see).
Jon
First of all, let me just say that EPCOT is perhaps my favorite park, and Futureworld is my favorite part of EPCOT. So when I first heard about PG I was NOT happy.
But for the most part, I LIKE the sound of it! Just because SE is going to go faster instead of clunk clunking along from one scene to another doesn't necessarily mean it will lose all meaning and educational value. SE is one of my favorite rides of all time, but let's face it... it could use some updating!
People go to the park to be entertained, to have fun. EPCOT can still be an educational park, but there needs to be a balance there. I think Test Track is an excellent example of how this can work. It sounds like they are using that as a model for Time Racers and probably for Mission Space as well.
Innoventions can be changed for sure. Living Seas could use the update. The coaster near The Land sounds exciting and fun... I would ride it!
Probably only two things make me sad... first, I'd hate to see EPCOT lose its futuristic "look". I worry the trees will make it look like Animal Kingdom or something! Second, I'd be sorry to see "Wonder of Life" close. I'd rather see it get updated than close entirely... but who knows? Maybe something great will replace it.
If we're afraid to change at all, we stand in the way of progress. Yes, I miss Horizons, World of Motion, and even Mr. Toad's Wild Ride (for crying out loud!). But I do believe the rides that replaced them are BETTER than the old rides (I'm assuming MS will be better than Horizons, we'll see).
Jon
General Grizz
New Member
Keep in mind that the two changes at EPCOT you just listed involved attractions which changed to thrill rides. Yet, the family attractions at EPCOT (i.e. JII and Food Rocks) proved to be of much less quality...
I agree that there needs to be more balance. Personally, I crigned when I heard Gemini, and it's sickening to think about it.
Good posts, everyone. But I agree Nimajneb, Phreek, and my own little Buford...
:lol:
I agree that there needs to be more balance. Personally, I crigned when I heard Gemini, and it's sickening to think about it.
Good posts, everyone. But I agree Nimajneb, Phreek, and my own little Buford...
:lol:
pax_65
Well-Known Member
How Do You Define "Family Attraction?"
Is Test Track a "family attraction"?
My daughter has been riding Test Track since she was 4 years old, and she LOVES it. If Time Racers has a similar 40" height requirement, what's the harm? It will be enjoyed by everyone from age 4 to age 85.
Would anyone say that Time Racers is a bad idea because 2-year-olds can't ride it? Does that make it not a "family" attraction?
I understand Walt's vision was of attractions parents and kids can ride together. But what about older kids? Many of the teenagers I know hate EPCOT and would rather do almost ANYTHING but go there.
If you exclude teenagers (and probably bore adults) in order to cater to 2-year-olds, I'd say that's a bad business move.
Jon
Is Test Track a "family attraction"?
My daughter has been riding Test Track since she was 4 years old, and she LOVES it. If Time Racers has a similar 40" height requirement, what's the harm? It will be enjoyed by everyone from age 4 to age 85.
Would anyone say that Time Racers is a bad idea because 2-year-olds can't ride it? Does that make it not a "family" attraction?
I understand Walt's vision was of attractions parents and kids can ride together. But what about older kids? Many of the teenagers I know hate EPCOT and would rather do almost ANYTHING but go there.
If you exclude teenagers (and probably bore adults) in order to cater to 2-year-olds, I'd say that's a bad business move.
Jon
I like most of the attractions in Epcot although I do think they need to be updated. But, the biggest disappointment in Epcot is Innoventions. The name sounds like it will contain cool futurisitic gizmos and gadgets, but it is basically, a few high-end gizmos you can currently buy in the store and some arcade games.
If PG does go through I hope that "The Leading Edge" pavillion is not Innoventions in disguise. In my opinion, Disney can regain some sponsorship here and it would be a great way for companies to get brand recognition with technology that would just floor people.
On my last visit to Epcot we visited Innoventions and the biggest hit there was Aibo the little robot dog by Sony. That is really one of the only things I remember there because it was cool to interact with a robot dog. "Brand recognition", I remember that this cool futuristic little dog was created by Sony.
There are many other companies working on advanced technologies that would interest people as well. Honda has a 5-foot robot. Car manufuacturers create concept cars for the Auto Show. What happens to these cars after the Auto Show? This would give people a chance for a closer look maybe even get inside one of these cars, which is usually not possible at the Auto Show. Many of these companies fund R&D projects that they could use to their marketing advantage. Universities can get into the fray too. I am sure it would be inexpensive for Disney to have students from some leading universities such as MIT to come down through an internship to show and explain some new leading edge technology they are working on.
I think "The Leading Edge" would benefit greatly by allowing for many exhibits, so that people with different interests can visit each exhibit that interests them, and having the exhibits be temporary and easily changable. This would allow companies to come in show something for a year or two and then pull out if they want or exhibit something else there. That would be true to "The Leading Edge" name because after a few years is something really considered leading edge? The key here is that it has to be able to change to show the latest and the greatest.
Does this sound appealing to anyone else or am I way off base here? Just thought this would add the "inspiration to dream" as 'Lil Buford put it back in one of the attractions at Epcot.
Ok, I'll shut up now. :zipit:
stingrock23
Active Member
Why don't they just update spaceship earth with a new omnimover system, new vehicles, and a few new scenes, while builing time racers someplace else in the park.
am i wrong, or is Epcot the biggest park in terms of land area?? Ak might be larger, but i thought Epcot was pretty big.
That way Spaceship Earth can remain the same, and those wanting time racers can be satisfied with it going someplace else in the park.
While i love roller coaters, i just don't see a rainforest coaster fitting in the park. I'm 24 and miss the way Epcot used to be, but i understand changes happen. But thrill thrill thrill is not the way to go.
am i wrong, or is Epcot the biggest park in terms of land area?? Ak might be larger, but i thought Epcot was pretty big.
That way Spaceship Earth can remain the same, and those wanting time racers can be satisfied with it going someplace else in the park.
While i love roller coaters, i just don't see a rainforest coaster fitting in the park. I'm 24 and miss the way Epcot used to be, but i understand changes happen. But thrill thrill thrill is not the way to go.
My Thoughts: Newbie Here
I'm new to this board and was compelled to register after reading everyone's thoughts on this thread and the other Project Gemini related threads. First some background. I'm a native Floridian, who just moved from Florida a few years ago. I grew up going to Disney since the first year it opened (I wasn't even one yet during my first visit). I still remember when Epcot's opening was first announced and the excitement and the anticipation all over the state. My family and I were quite excited the first year it openend and Epcot until recently continued to be one of our favorite parks. However, during my last visit this past August...the place.. in a word...was utterly depressing. And for the first time I realized that Future World in particular needed a alot of help. Although PG may not be a total solution, it is more than just a good start. I definitely question the wisdom of a Jr. Autopia and outdoor roller coaster. There is no question in my mind the place needs a facelift and more. My biggest issue with GP is the placing of Time Racers inside of SE. SE is the only decent dark ride in the entire park and as a long time disney devotee the dark rides are one of the things that have always set the disney parks apart from all other theme parks and traveling fairs. But other than big disney fans who is going to miss it. As for Innoventions/Comunicore - it's gotta go. It takes up so much space and stinks. I remember when Innoventions was added and all the hoopla. It was a joke. It was just an excuse for Sega games. Wouldn't it make sense to gut it and place a COP there? All the other plans sound great, adding some more trees would be great, but i believe that once the innovention buildings are changed, it won't seem like such a concrete jungle.
As for The Living Seas, it was always a disappointment . I don't think Ariel should be there, makes no sense to me. But the place needs a change. If you read the old Disney press releases and the stuff in old disney books, TLS is not what imagineers had planned. WoL should also be updated and should not be closed. All they have to do is update the Body Wars ride.
Some parting thoughts....Future World has never been very "futuristic" to begin with, with the exception of Horizons. So any change is a positive change. But..and this is a big but...can we really expect the current disney to implement these changes? AK is a let down. A beautifully designed park without the attractions. The Pooh ride? Once you read about the Pooh ride in Japan, you'll feel incredibly shortchanged. But on the bright side, the Studios has been steadily improving. So ultimately who knows. What i do know is you can bet most of these changes other than Time racers and Soarin', won't be implemented.
I'm new to this board and was compelled to register after reading everyone's thoughts on this thread and the other Project Gemini related threads. First some background. I'm a native Floridian, who just moved from Florida a few years ago. I grew up going to Disney since the first year it opened (I wasn't even one yet during my first visit). I still remember when Epcot's opening was first announced and the excitement and the anticipation all over the state. My family and I were quite excited the first year it openend and Epcot until recently continued to be one of our favorite parks. However, during my last visit this past August...the place.. in a word...was utterly depressing. And for the first time I realized that Future World in particular needed a alot of help. Although PG may not be a total solution, it is more than just a good start. I definitely question the wisdom of a Jr. Autopia and outdoor roller coaster. There is no question in my mind the place needs a facelift and more. My biggest issue with GP is the placing of Time Racers inside of SE. SE is the only decent dark ride in the entire park and as a long time disney devotee the dark rides are one of the things that have always set the disney parks apart from all other theme parks and traveling fairs. But other than big disney fans who is going to miss it. As for Innoventions/Comunicore - it's gotta go. It takes up so much space and stinks. I remember when Innoventions was added and all the hoopla. It was a joke. It was just an excuse for Sega games. Wouldn't it make sense to gut it and place a COP there? All the other plans sound great, adding some more trees would be great, but i believe that once the innovention buildings are changed, it won't seem like such a concrete jungle.
As for The Living Seas, it was always a disappointment . I don't think Ariel should be there, makes no sense to me. But the place needs a change. If you read the old Disney press releases and the stuff in old disney books, TLS is not what imagineers had planned. WoL should also be updated and should not be closed. All they have to do is update the Body Wars ride.
Some parting thoughts....Future World has never been very "futuristic" to begin with, with the exception of Horizons. So any change is a positive change. But..and this is a big but...can we really expect the current disney to implement these changes? AK is a let down. A beautifully designed park without the attractions. The Pooh ride? Once you read about the Pooh ride in Japan, you'll feel incredibly shortchanged. But on the bright side, the Studios has been steadily improving. So ultimately who knows. What i do know is you can bet most of these changes other than Time racers and Soarin', won't be implemented.
FourFourSeven
Member
I'm assuming that most of the Project Gemini rumors of exact attractions are just that - rumors. Yes, lots may happen, but the final version will NOT be like the rumors we hear - things change, rumors are wrong, etc. That being said, let's look at each of the pavilions:
Spaceship Earth - I realize a lot of people love this ride. However, it's dated, and has no "wow" factor. SOMETHING needs to be done to make the primary attraction a "wow" attraction.
Ellen's Energy Adventure - Do you really feel the need to ride this twice? I think most people would say "that was okay" and feel there's no need to re-ride.
Wonders of Life - Body Wars - feels dated again (the special effects look fake, even the hairstyles look pretty silly). Cranium Command, while a personal favorite, features SNL performers from the 80's. Again, feels dated. (I love the exhibits and the theme of WoL, by the way.)
Mission: Space - Super e-ticket. No problems here for at least 10 years...
Test Track - e-ticket. Again, no problems for several years.
Innoventions - I went there once, and was incredibly turned off by the video games and cheesy presentations. It needs "magic."
Imagination Pavillion - JITYI needs something - I'm not sure what. That's why I'm not an imagineer...
HISTA is okay. The exhibits are nice.
The Land - nice ride. Exactly that - nice. No "wow."
Living Seas - Never really excited anyone. The movie is slow and boring to most. The ride is too short and breaks down. The seabase is nice, but frankly nothing better than you can get at a local aquarium.
So, of the pavilions, I see the following:
2 e-tickets (though admittedly not geared towards the youngest)
2 pavilions with nice exhibits, but mostly tired attractions
5 pavilions that don't "wow" any but the most devoted Epcot visitors (which are all on this board, I realize)
Last time I was at Epcot, it was DEAD. Walk on everything but Test Track. Really very sad, in my opinion. SOMETHING has got to be done.
Spaceship Earth - I realize a lot of people love this ride. However, it's dated, and has no "wow" factor. SOMETHING needs to be done to make the primary attraction a "wow" attraction.
Ellen's Energy Adventure - Do you really feel the need to ride this twice? I think most people would say "that was okay" and feel there's no need to re-ride.
Wonders of Life - Body Wars - feels dated again (the special effects look fake, even the hairstyles look pretty silly). Cranium Command, while a personal favorite, features SNL performers from the 80's. Again, feels dated. (I love the exhibits and the theme of WoL, by the way.)
Mission: Space - Super e-ticket. No problems here for at least 10 years...
Test Track - e-ticket. Again, no problems for several years.
Innoventions - I went there once, and was incredibly turned off by the video games and cheesy presentations. It needs "magic."
Imagination Pavillion - JITYI needs something - I'm not sure what. That's why I'm not an imagineer...
HISTA is okay. The exhibits are nice.The Land - nice ride. Exactly that - nice. No "wow."
Living Seas - Never really excited anyone. The movie is slow and boring to most. The ride is too short and breaks down. The seabase is nice, but frankly nothing better than you can get at a local aquarium.
So, of the pavilions, I see the following:
2 e-tickets (though admittedly not geared towards the youngest)
2 pavilions with nice exhibits, but mostly tired attractions
5 pavilions that don't "wow" any but the most devoted Epcot visitors (which are all on this board, I realize
)Last time I was at Epcot, it was DEAD. Walk on everything but Test Track. Really very sad, in my opinion. SOMETHING has got to be done.
imagineersrock
New Member
PROJECT GEMINI
---first time poster!!---
so "PG" huh... well think i have plenty to say.
I'm a 16 yr old who ever since i could remember passionately knew i would become a wdw imagineer -crazy as it sounds- I've simply always known and never doubted it for a second because i have an absolute upsession with everything theme parks (and specificly disney parks ofcouse) and simply a great eye for detail and etc... you know what i'm getting at... but enough about me; so anyway my family because of myself have visited wdw well over 100+ times and went pretty steadily over the years, that is except for about the last 3 years -so for the first time in several years we returned to EPCOT and believe it or not i found myself on the verge of tears because for the first time ever i actually questioned whether this truley was where i wanted to be in several years. the epcot i saw in febuary of '03 was nothing like the magical place i remebered from years before; it looked like crap to me..! -everything looked so 'retro' to me [its supposed to be future world -yet everything is cracked, chipped, and just down-right old looking with the exception of test track and a few other here-and-there areas. for example; i think the entire fountain area behind spaceship earth is fantastic, from the great color scheme, and the elaborate canopy made from those purple diamond shaped things... i love the look of that area and i think that area describes exactly what the entire future world needs to look like for future world or "discovery land" to flow, or really be one united area of the park.
1.) i feel that as much as i would enjoy a roller coaster within the now spaceship earth (SE) i think it would be a big mistake on disney's part. i feel that the current SE is an excellent family attraction that really sets a great mood for "whats to come" -i think its a great way to start a day at EPCOT. or as said earlier:
".....Time Racers, replacing Spaceship Earth, only leaves one less family experience - and replacing such a meaning gives this one a thumbs down....." -I think that says it all!
2.)From the bus loading area, to the turnstyle area; it needs some serious help again; so darn "retro" looking... its simply a sore sight in my opinion.
3.)as much as i enjoy ellen's energy adventure, or universe of energy---the exterior paint job... the whole rainbow thing... i dont know, perhaps different shades of 1 color would be a better idea for this area. but this is just minor... this ones more towards the bottom of my to-do list.
4.)wonders of life... dont get me started.... i think (also as said earlier by someone else) -its just a complete waste of space and i think disney knows it. in my opinion, if there's one pavillion thats next to go -this is definently it.
5.)as for the test track (TT)area... two thumbs way up -in my opinion, TT was the begining of EPCOT'S rebirth. also, the M.S. project; i think that as long as the attraction lives up to what it's hyped up to be, this will bring that area of FW to life. i feel its a already a great continuation of a sort 'higher standard' that was set by TT.
6.) i dont really have anything against innoventions. though its not one of my must-see attractions, its still a neat area, and is always a good thing to hang out at when wheather isn't at its best.
-----now the other side of FW!-----
7.) Living seas has always been a nice pavillion, i could definently see myself taking my kids "down in the elevator down into the ocean" i think it's a great idea and must be very exciting for younger guests. as for the adults in the group, its still very cool; not everyone can usually get that close to such a variety of sea creatures. -thumbs up from me!
8.) the land, maybe just a few updates to that once again "retro" style but otherwise its a rather unique pavillion with a little something for eveyone.
9.) lets remember those two big open areas on either side of the land pavillion---lets put some real thought into it and create some real unique and enjoyable pavillions opposed to just plopping a coaster down out of nowhere.
10.) imagination..... well..... hm..... how should i say -sucks!?
ok, ok... im being too harsh. look i feel that imagination has SERIOUS potential; its a subject in which you can have so many possibilities. as for my suggestions; 1.)fix that red+orange=disgusting paint job that they added a few yrs ago! 2.) as much as i love honey i shrunk the audience -honestly i feel its a great show with great special effects. but even i have to admit its past getting old, its just old -maybe some form of a remake would do..? and ofcourse 3.) the imagination ride(s) that disney has tried to put in have been failures, admit it. i say they spend some good time and create a truley fun/interesting/entertaining family attraction in there! but please just make it good!
***** in my opinion, just little things such as those that i have pointed out would dramatically increase the look/feel/popularity of FW and for that matter EPCOT as a whole. I've always believed that epcot has had the potential to be one of -if not the best wdw theme park. [if only we could just sweep an enormous magic wand over the park and have it instantly change everything in the park into the things they could/should be]
-LOL (Much like the one attached to "SE") -but seriously, i feel that all the stuff i've talked about is what could be viewed as the brighter side of "PG" so lets just cross our fingers and hope that disney makes the right choice here! -thanks for listening to my long.... long, long long loooonnnggg post -but hey if you actually took the time to read this far, i suppose you actually appreciated my imput anywayz! thanks again, ALEX -your fellow disney fanatic (FDF) <----ohh! catchy!
---first time poster!!---
so "PG" huh... well think i have plenty to say.
I'm a 16 yr old who ever since i could remember passionately knew i would become a wdw imagineer -crazy as it sounds- I've simply always known and never doubted it for a second because i have an absolute upsession with everything theme parks (and specificly disney parks ofcouse) and simply a great eye for detail and etc... you know what i'm getting at... but enough about me; so anyway my family because of myself have visited wdw well over 100+ times and went pretty steadily over the years, that is except for about the last 3 years -so for the first time in several years we returned to EPCOT and believe it or not i found myself on the verge of tears because for the first time ever i actually questioned whether this truley was where i wanted to be in several years. the epcot i saw in febuary of '03 was nothing like the magical place i remebered from years before; it looked like crap to me..! -everything looked so 'retro' to me [its supposed to be future world -yet everything is cracked, chipped, and just down-right old looking with the exception of test track and a few other here-and-there areas. for example; i think the entire fountain area behind spaceship earth is fantastic, from the great color scheme, and the elaborate canopy made from those purple diamond shaped things... i love the look of that area and i think that area describes exactly what the entire future world needs to look like for future world or "discovery land" to flow, or really be one united area of the park.
1.) i feel that as much as i would enjoy a roller coaster within the now spaceship earth (SE) i think it would be a big mistake on disney's part. i feel that the current SE is an excellent family attraction that really sets a great mood for "whats to come" -i think its a great way to start a day at EPCOT. or as said earlier:
".....Time Racers, replacing Spaceship Earth, only leaves one less family experience - and replacing such a meaning gives this one a thumbs down....." -I think that says it all!
2.)From the bus loading area, to the turnstyle area; it needs some serious help again; so darn "retro" looking... its simply a sore sight in my opinion.
3.)as much as i enjoy ellen's energy adventure, or universe of energy---the exterior paint job... the whole rainbow thing... i dont know, perhaps different shades of 1 color would be a better idea for this area. but this is just minor... this ones more towards the bottom of my to-do list.
4.)wonders of life... dont get me started.... i think (also as said earlier by someone else) -its just a complete waste of space and i think disney knows it. in my opinion, if there's one pavillion thats next to go -this is definently it.
5.)as for the test track (TT)area... two thumbs way up -in my opinion, TT was the begining of EPCOT'S rebirth. also, the M.S. project; i think that as long as the attraction lives up to what it's hyped up to be, this will bring that area of FW to life. i feel its a already a great continuation of a sort 'higher standard' that was set by TT.
6.) i dont really have anything against innoventions. though its not one of my must-see attractions, its still a neat area, and is always a good thing to hang out at when wheather isn't at its best.
-----now the other side of FW!-----
7.) Living seas has always been a nice pavillion, i could definently see myself taking my kids "down in the elevator down into the ocean" i think it's a great idea and must be very exciting for younger guests. as for the adults in the group, its still very cool; not everyone can usually get that close to such a variety of sea creatures. -thumbs up from me!
8.) the land, maybe just a few updates to that once again "retro" style but otherwise its a rather unique pavillion with a little something for eveyone.
9.) lets remember those two big open areas on either side of the land pavillion---lets put some real thought into it and create some real unique and enjoyable pavillions opposed to just plopping a coaster down out of nowhere.
10.) imagination..... well..... hm..... how should i say -sucks!?
ok, ok... im being too harsh. look i feel that imagination has SERIOUS potential; its a subject in which you can have so many possibilities. as for my suggestions; 1.)fix that red+orange=disgusting paint job that they added a few yrs ago! 2.) as much as i love honey i shrunk the audience -honestly i feel its a great show with great special effects. but even i have to admit its past getting old, its just old -maybe some form of a remake would do..? and ofcourse 3.) the imagination ride(s) that disney has tried to put in have been failures, admit it. i say they spend some good time and create a truley fun/interesting/entertaining family attraction in there! but please just make it good!
***** in my opinion, just little things such as those that i have pointed out would dramatically increase the look/feel/popularity of FW and for that matter EPCOT as a whole. I've always believed that epcot has had the potential to be one of -if not the best wdw theme park. [if only we could just sweep an enormous magic wand over the park and have it instantly change everything in the park into the things they could/should be]
-LOL (Much like the one attached to "SE") -but seriously, i feel that all the stuff i've talked about is what could be viewed as the brighter side of "PG" so lets just cross our fingers and hope that disney makes the right choice here! -thanks for listening to my long.... long, long long loooonnnggg post -but hey if you actually took the time to read this far, i suppose you actually appreciated my imput anywayz! thanks again, ALEX -your fellow disney fanatic (FDF) <----ohh! catchy!
Dizknee_Phreek
Well-Known Member
dox, i LOVE you!!! great post!!! welcome to the boards! 
:sohappy:
:sohappy:
jaylenofan86
New Member
bump
mickeykid79
Member
Lets remember that the plans so far revealed on PG were part of a "Blue Sky" sketch, so in other words, it might not have the roller coasters and mazes. But whatever they do, I hope its the best, Epcot is boring as it is so no way of them (F) it up any more.
Disneynutcase
New Member
My lengthy 2 cents as I join in late:
I've been thinking a lot about the rumored changes that PG will bring to Epcot. Very mixed emotions from me. First off, Epcot is my reason for heading across country to go to WDW. I think it's perhaps the coolest concept for a theme park ever.
But with that said, there is a sad truth when it comes to Epcot in 2003. And that truth is that this park has been sadly neglected since the late '80's.
Think about it. Since the original design for Epcot was completed in the late 80's, Disney has instead put their resouces and energy into mass theme park expansion--in other words, the seven other parks they have opened since mid-80's. As a result, Epcot has been given nothing more than quick fix/band-aid treatment, replacing a few attractions successfully (albiet controvesially) while also doing complete botch jobs on the others. And now we kind of have a hackneyed park concept-wise. It really has let the "future" pass it by. Most pavilions look dated, retro, very '80's. A lot just need new paint jobs and sprucing up.
In previous threads, I've echoed sentiments of others about SSE. To me, it's not at all an attraction that needs replacing. I love this ride and the potential of removing it feels kin to how I'd feel if Disney removed POTC from all it's Magic Kingdoms. It's just too much of a signature ride, dated or not.
However, the reality is that Epcot relies on sponsorship, and they ain't getting much of late because the park has low attendance and the attractions (including SSE) are pretty dated and clunky. And many need new sponsors. And these sponsors will only buy in if Disney makes them look good, cutting-edge, etc...
With that said, let me quickly air my views about the proposed PG changes:
1) TimeRacers--I actually love the concept and potential for this ride, but again question why they want to put it in the big sphere when there are so many other places it can go. Since they are talking about pulling out some or all of Innoventions, why not make TR part of the SSE pavilion and put the attraction behind SSE, making it a multi-attraction pavilion?
2) Soaring ride--disappointed that it's going into FW/Discoveryland when it seems a natural addition for any of the WS pavillions--an huge area of Epcot which it seems will be totally neglected by PG additions.
3) Imagination--My opinion of it: whatever. Being that they can't seem to get it right, just leave it alone for a while. Maybe replace HISTA with another 3-D, especially since the
"Honey, I'm a doofus" movies are totally passe and off most everyone's radars.
4) Rainforest Coaster--really have mixed emotions here. They need to do some theming to tie it to the Land pavilion. Just a plain out-in-the-open coaster would be totally unDisney. Then again, CA Screaming at DCA borders on run of the mill coaster, although it is themed to the Boardwalk, so theming could happen to a bare minimal extent.
6) LS--the Little Mermaid thing makes me cringe. The problem with this pavillion is that is was hardly cutting-edge when it opened and Sea World and its aquairum clones quickly topped it. My feeling is that they need to keep the tank and the restaurant and just totally rethink what they can do here. I read somewhere that they had at one time thought about a "man's history with the sea" theme, going from fear of sea monsters and the world-is-flat pre-Columbus concepts to modern day stuff. I personally think a multi-media (with use of animatronics) long omnimover ride (something that would incorporate and update the underwater stuff of Horizons and also do an homage to 20,000 Leagues) would be the answer. They can use the existing tank tunnel (i.e. the old ride) as it's exciting climax (well, not that exciting). Personally, I think it would be cool to use all the things Disney does best here only to have the ride end with live sea creatures. And it's not like they don't have space around the existing pavilion to do something like this. The Little Mermaid thing reeks of band-aid/quick fix and won't do that much to draw interest. Not unless they go drastic in some way.
7) M:S, TT, & UOE--for now leave alone. Nothing really that wrong here. However...
8) If they are going to add a kid-friendly attraction to TT area, why do a stupid-freakin' autopia? I keep reading that they have all this unused space at/inside/around TT. So why not complete the now kinda-brainless pavilion and do an omnimover ride or an AA show that seems less car commercial (like the pavilion now seems to be) and goes back a bit to the original WoM concept of the history of travel (or at least, vehicle testing--hey, even the wheel was probably dangerous when it was first invented). We don't need another kiddie car ride. Very unimaginative.
9) WoL--removing this pavilion bothers me, even though I don't really like this place. BodyWars is way passe in almost all respects. It's time for them to shut it down then reconceptualize it with a whole new ride technology. In other words, do the "Fantastic Voyage" thing, going inside a body, but make the ride really WOW the masses. Perhaps using the Spiderman technology for this one would work. Likewise for Cranium Command--great show for what it is, but again it reeks of being dated. Can't Buzzy have a new adventure? Can't they re-do it a bit with fresher, more recent performors doing their bits? Or how about solving the whole problem by using characters/people who have had looonnng careers in show biz--like Madonna, George Carlin and Steve Martin and such? Y'know, iconic figures rather than people you damn-near forget about over the course of time.
10) Innoventions--a waste of space. Totally expendible area that could be used for a new ride--like TimeRacers.
11) I like the concept of trees. Just have to make sure that it doesn't look forest or jungle and instead looks very distinct to the park.
If you haven't guessed, I'm for some of the changes. Epcot needs something. In fact, it's time this park totally got its due. This was WDW's #2 park. It isn't anymore. That in itself saddens me deeply. To me, any comittment out of Disney to improve and update this park is a wonderful thing. Just please don't make it quick fix/band-aids. I've had enough of that over the years (think DL's "New" Tomorrowland, known by some of us in So Cal as "Half-boardeed and unsused Depressingland).
End of long ramble.
I've been thinking a lot about the rumored changes that PG will bring to Epcot. Very mixed emotions from me. First off, Epcot is my reason for heading across country to go to WDW. I think it's perhaps the coolest concept for a theme park ever.
But with that said, there is a sad truth when it comes to Epcot in 2003. And that truth is that this park has been sadly neglected since the late '80's.
Think about it. Since the original design for Epcot was completed in the late 80's, Disney has instead put their resouces and energy into mass theme park expansion--in other words, the seven other parks they have opened since mid-80's. As a result, Epcot has been given nothing more than quick fix/band-aid treatment, replacing a few attractions successfully (albiet controvesially) while also doing complete botch jobs on the others. And now we kind of have a hackneyed park concept-wise. It really has let the "future" pass it by. Most pavilions look dated, retro, very '80's. A lot just need new paint jobs and sprucing up.
In previous threads, I've echoed sentiments of others about SSE. To me, it's not at all an attraction that needs replacing. I love this ride and the potential of removing it feels kin to how I'd feel if Disney removed POTC from all it's Magic Kingdoms. It's just too much of a signature ride, dated or not.
However, the reality is that Epcot relies on sponsorship, and they ain't getting much of late because the park has low attendance and the attractions (including SSE) are pretty dated and clunky. And many need new sponsors. And these sponsors will only buy in if Disney makes them look good, cutting-edge, etc...
With that said, let me quickly air my views about the proposed PG changes:
1) TimeRacers--I actually love the concept and potential for this ride, but again question why they want to put it in the big sphere when there are so many other places it can go. Since they are talking about pulling out some or all of Innoventions, why not make TR part of the SSE pavilion and put the attraction behind SSE, making it a multi-attraction pavilion?
2) Soaring ride--disappointed that it's going into FW/Discoveryland when it seems a natural addition for any of the WS pavillions--an huge area of Epcot which it seems will be totally neglected by PG additions.
3) Imagination--My opinion of it: whatever. Being that they can't seem to get it right, just leave it alone for a while. Maybe replace HISTA with another 3-D, especially since the
"Honey, I'm a doofus" movies are totally passe and off most everyone's radars.
4) Rainforest Coaster--really have mixed emotions here. They need to do some theming to tie it to the Land pavilion. Just a plain out-in-the-open coaster would be totally unDisney. Then again, CA Screaming at DCA borders on run of the mill coaster, although it is themed to the Boardwalk, so theming could happen to a bare minimal extent.
6) LS--the Little Mermaid thing makes me cringe. The problem with this pavillion is that is was hardly cutting-edge when it opened and Sea World and its aquairum clones quickly topped it. My feeling is that they need to keep the tank and the restaurant and just totally rethink what they can do here. I read somewhere that they had at one time thought about a "man's history with the sea" theme, going from fear of sea monsters and the world-is-flat pre-Columbus concepts to modern day stuff. I personally think a multi-media (with use of animatronics) long omnimover ride (something that would incorporate and update the underwater stuff of Horizons and also do an homage to 20,000 Leagues) would be the answer. They can use the existing tank tunnel (i.e. the old ride) as it's exciting climax (well, not that exciting). Personally, I think it would be cool to use all the things Disney does best here only to have the ride end with live sea creatures. And it's not like they don't have space around the existing pavilion to do something like this. The Little Mermaid thing reeks of band-aid/quick fix and won't do that much to draw interest. Not unless they go drastic in some way.
7) M:S, TT, & UOE--for now leave alone. Nothing really that wrong here. However...
8) If they are going to add a kid-friendly attraction to TT area, why do a stupid-freakin' autopia? I keep reading that they have all this unused space at/inside/around TT. So why not complete the now kinda-brainless pavilion and do an omnimover ride or an AA show that seems less car commercial (like the pavilion now seems to be) and goes back a bit to the original WoM concept of the history of travel (or at least, vehicle testing--hey, even the wheel was probably dangerous when it was first invented). We don't need another kiddie car ride. Very unimaginative.
9) WoL--removing this pavilion bothers me, even though I don't really like this place. BodyWars is way passe in almost all respects. It's time for them to shut it down then reconceptualize it with a whole new ride technology. In other words, do the "Fantastic Voyage" thing, going inside a body, but make the ride really WOW the masses. Perhaps using the Spiderman technology for this one would work. Likewise for Cranium Command--great show for what it is, but again it reeks of being dated. Can't Buzzy have a new adventure? Can't they re-do it a bit with fresher, more recent performors doing their bits? Or how about solving the whole problem by using characters/people who have had looonnng careers in show biz--like Madonna, George Carlin and Steve Martin and such? Y'know, iconic figures rather than people you damn-near forget about over the course of time.
10) Innoventions--a waste of space. Totally expendible area that could be used for a new ride--like TimeRacers.
11) I like the concept of trees. Just have to make sure that it doesn't look forest or jungle and instead looks very distinct to the park.
If you haven't guessed, I'm for some of the changes. Epcot needs something. In fact, it's time this park totally got its due. This was WDW's #2 park. It isn't anymore. That in itself saddens me deeply. To me, any comittment out of Disney to improve and update this park is a wonderful thing. Just please don't make it quick fix/band-aids. I've had enough of that over the years (think DL's "New" Tomorrowland, known by some of us in So Cal as "Half-boardeed and unsused Depressingland).
End of long ramble.
Great post Disneynutcase! I love your ideas for the LS. I have an old lengthy book about Epcot, published before the park opened. It's full of conceptual drawings and models about each of the rides. Needless to say, many of the rides and countries did not turn out as Disney described. Nevertheless, I still loved the way it turned out. But the biggest disappointment of them all was the Living Seas. I forget the exact details at this moment, but the Pavillion was to have ride vehicles traveling through the oceans, etc. In fact, the ride vehicle was supposed to be enclosed to give you the impression of being under the sea. I'm not sure if you were supposed to be underwater or not come to think of it. But i recently read up on Tokyo Disney Sea recently and their 20,000 Leagues ride sounds somewhat similar and interesting idea to what can be achieved at this pavillion.
With respect to the coaster ride at Epcot, one thing I have always wished they would do finally is either a switzerland pavillion with a matterhorn or a Mount Fuji at Japan. Obviously there is no space behind Japan anymore. But I always thought it would be cool if each park had some kind of mountain. Would be a great marketing gimmick too. Ride the Mountains of Disney.
With respect to the coaster ride at Epcot, one thing I have always wished they would do finally is either a switzerland pavillion with a matterhorn or a Mount Fuji at Japan. Obviously there is no space behind Japan anymore. But I always thought it would be cool if each park had some kind of mountain. Would be a great marketing gimmick too. Ride the Mountains of Disney.