Pricing the crowds away

[Dreamers Empire]

I'd like to add some thoughts to the pricing discussion at Disney and some of you won't like it or agree with it.

Disney has just plain gotten too crowded. There is just too much involved in getting on premium attractions like FOP or Slinky Dog Dash. In the 1990's I could virtually walk on to Horizons which was a far superior experience IMHO. I remember walking around Epcot at ideal times where I felt like I owned the place.

The world population has increased by 2 billion from 1995 to now. Trying to accomodate the increased crowds to Disney has become a problem they have to address, a good problem for their bottom line. The only way to do that is increase prices.

Every time Disney increases park passes or adds some special hours events I hear a lot of complaining. Admittedly I've been on vacations where I suddenly had to exit Magic Kingdom earlier than I expected to for MNSSHP. I didn't like it but I get it. I didn't like hearing about the parking fee's either, but it makes perfect sense.

Increasing costs will allow Disney to keep building new things like Galaxies Edge and hopefully a 5th theme park in the not too distant future to deal with those crowds. And I think they've done a good job of spreading out those costs whether it be for special events, parking fee's, hotel prices, etc..

When someone complains that they got more for less in the past I just don't feel sorry for them because everyone of us is dealing with that and some are adjusting better.

My suggestion to Disney is to create a 5th theme park and combine it with a new huge conference center and somehow theme it all together. I'd make it futuristic, something that rekindled the wonderment we once felt at Epcot. Design this to take virtually half the crowds away from the other parks because if they do, they will get a lot of people to spend less time at Universal and other parks, but quite honestly, the worlds growth will keep them all plenty busy.

Lastly my opinion that some won't like. I feel that AP holder prices should go WAY UP, maybe doubled. Disneys favorite customers are the families that come once a year for one week, stay on site and dump a lot of money. If you look at the "Money spent per person per day" you will see this is true. I think that Disney has almost become too fanatical for some who come and suck up the fast passes but don't spend near the amount of money as that family that pays for hotel, eats every meal in the parks, etc.. I think AP holders are an important element of Disney, but there are getting to be too many. I predict they are already planning this. There are some people who do some really legit stuff with their AP's like going live in the parks so we can join them, and I would send them money to have them keep doing it.

Agree or disagree, the only thing that matters is what they do and they haven't asked my opinion. But I'm guessing I'm not too far off.

 

[TwilightZone]

5th theme park will never happen, but AP stuff does sound realistic.

 

[Dreamers Empire]

5th theme park will never happen, but AP stuff does sound realistic.

Yeah, I should have said I probably wasn't too far off on AP and continued price increases. Fifth theme park is just a pipe dream.

 

[mbroschak]

Well said on all accounts... I completely agree for WDW and even more so at Disneyland... The parks at many times a year are becoming unmanageable in terms of crowds and although I hate to see Disney being only available to the wealthiest, but it is a simple reality that there will just simply be too many people for the physical space, so in a way, I like to see how they are slowly implementing “tiers” with hard ticket events to allow those people who are willing to spend the extra money for a little more breathing room to do so... I already feel like I am paying way more for my annual pass because I went twice last year and bought two nights at MVMCP and two nights at after hours, that’s several hundred on top of what my annual pass costs already but was completely worth it to me for the experience...

 

[tractor tipper]

There are a lot of young Marvel fans just waiting for Disney to build them a new (5th gate) Marvel park. It probably won't be as family friendly but they will come.

 

[TwilightZone]

There are a lot of young Marvel fans just waiting for Disney to build them a new (5th gate) Marvel park. It probably won't be as family friendly but they will come.

Not until universal gets rid of the contract.

 

[Dreamers Empire]

Well said on all accounts... I completely agree for WDW and even more so at Disneyland... The parks at many times a year are becoming unmanageable in terms of crowds and although I hate to see Disney being only available to the wealthiest, but it is a simple reality that there will just simply be too many people for the physical space, so in a way, I like to see how they are slowly implementing “tiers” with hard ticket events to allow those people who are willing to spend the extra money for a little more breathing room to do so... I already feel like I am paying way more for my annual pass because I went twice last year and bought two nights at MVMCP and two nights at after hours, that’s several hundred on top of what my annual pass costs already but was completely worth it to me for the experience...

That is good to hear from an AP holder as I am not one. You paid for the experience and it was worth it to you. I wish everyone had your attitude.

 

[wdisney9000]

I think that Disney has almost become too fanatical for some who come and suck up the fast passes but don't spend near the amount of money as that family that pays for hotel, eats every meal in the parks, etc.

As an AP holder who visits several times a year, owns DVC, attends after hours events and holiday ticketed events, eats all meals on property and does not leave property when we visit, I would be bet that we (wife and I) spend more each year compared to the "one time" visiting family you described above. And there are many just like us who do the same. The difference is, I would not them to raise park admission for the one time visitor in order to keep crowds under control. I do not think that is the solution.

One thing to consider is that many families, (especially with children) often visit during the peak crowd times (Summer, Holidays, school breaks). It has been crowded during these times for many years. I have been visiting long enough to remember the days of Horizons and strolling through Epcot or MGM and felt like we had the park to ourselves. But there were also just as many times in the 1990s when we visited and the park was slammed with people wall to wall. It is still very much the same today. It just depends on when you visit. We have had many days at WDW over the last few years when we found ourselves in a nearly empty Epcot or HS. In July we rode ToT 5 times in a row one evening and also RnR a few times. The park was basically empty the last few hours of the day. Same with Epcot one day during that trip. It still happens, just not as often.

 

[Astro_Digital]

Price is a big reason I stopped going.

 

[Dreamers Empire]

As an AP holder who visits several times a year, owns DVC, attends after hours events and holiday ticketed events, eats all meals on property and does not leave property when we visit, I would be bet that we (wife and I) spend more each year compared to the "one time" visiting family you described above. And there are many just like us who do the same. The difference is, I would not them to raise park admission for the one time visitor in order to keep crowds under control. I do not think that is the solution.

One thing to consider is that many families, (especially with children) often visit during the peak crowd times (Summer, Holidays, school breaks). It has been crowded during these times for many years. I have been visiting long enough to remember the days of Horizons and strolling through Epcot or MGM and felt like we had the park to ourselves. But there were also just as many times in the 1990s when we visited and the park was slammed with people wall to wall. It is still very much the same today. It just depends on when you visit. We have had many days at WDW over the last few years when we found ourselves in a nearly empty Epcot or HS. In July we rode ToT 5 times in a row one evening and also RnR a few times. The park was basically empty the last few hours of the day. Same with Epcot one day during that trip. It still happens, just not as often.

For sure, WDW loves you guys and will always cater to you and I totally get how AP's work for your situation. The fear I have is that AP holders that move to Orlando and essentially live there without spending much money are a big reason the parks are getting too crowded and making it hard to get fast passes. It may not be completely out of hand yet, but I can't see that WDW will expand enough to handle the growth and will have to make some changes. But I'm also guessing that if you can afford DVC and more you will probably pay for AP's increased rates.

I wish I knew a week to go where I could experience the light crowds as you say, I never see that anymore and I go at the unpeak times.

 

[Weather_Lady]

They've priced my family out, in the sense that we're not the "visit once a year a drop a lot of money" family we always thought we'd be. With Universal Orlando standing at about 1/2 the cost, and Disneyland at about 2/3 of the price, of a comparable experience at Disney World (that's even with the more-expensive airfare from our home state of NY), and with both being far more laid-back, little-advance-planning-required vacations, there's little reason for us to choose Disney World over its nearest competitors. I'll always have that nostalgic attachment -- but there's a limit to the monetary value of that nostalgia, and WDW's prices have recently come to exceed it.

 

[John park hopper]

We have not stopped going to WDW. Other than fixed costs (park tickets and resort room fees and the new parking fee) we spend next too nothing in the parks anymore. Bring our own food and drinks. Easy and a lot cheaper to bring a bottle of wine or liquor and mix a drink at our room and take it to the resort pool. I can carry a nap sack (with a cold bag) for water, soda and snacks to the park. $5.75 for a Mickey bar, $4.00 for water, $7.00 for a pretzel etc No thank you Disney. I know others will say-- well the prices Disney charges are comparable to other venues movies, sport events etc and that is why I don't go any more.

 

[Tony the Tigger]

I'd make it futuristic, something that rekindled the wonderment we once felt at Epcot.

So...they should specifically not learn from past mistakes.

There are some people who do some really legit stuff with their AP's like going live in the parks so we can join them

As an AP holder who visits several times a year, owns DVC, attends after hours events and holiday ticketed events, eats all meals on property and does not leave property when we visit, I would be bet that we (wife and I) spend more each year compared to the "one time" visiting family you described above. And there are many just like us who do the same. The difference is, I would not them to raise park admission for the one time visitor in order to keep crowds under control. I do not think that is the solution.

One thing to consider is that many families, (especially with children) often visit during the peak crowd times (Summer, Holidays, school breaks). It has been crowded during these times for many years. I have been visiting long enough to remember the days of Horizons and strolling through Epcot or MGM and felt like we had the park to ourselves. But there were also just as many times in the 1990s when we visited and the park was slammed with people wall to wall. It is still very much the same today. It just depends on when you visit. We have had many days at WDW over the last few years when we found ourselves in a nearly empty Epcot or HS. In July we rode ToT 5 times in a row one evening and also RnR a few times. The park was basically empty the last few hours of the day. Same with Epcot one day during that trip. It still happens, just not as often.

Right on!

 

[StarshipDisney]

Well, you are certainly entitled to your opinion. But I have been visiting Walt Disney World since 1972 and I still say the current management of WDW is all about nothing but greed and stockholder returns (and I am a Disney stockholder). Why else do they reduce what you get to go along with the price increases? If it was all about crowds, then it seems to me they would simply go up in price. There would be no need to...for instance....

- Remove the appetizer from the DDP dinner while going up on price (yes the DDP once included this)
- Remove the dessert from the DDP Lunch while going up on price (this changed since my last trip in 2016)
- Stop providing the small and novel bottles of shampoo/conditioner just to save a few $$$

I am sure I could think of more. But the point is that Disney loves the extreme crowds and all they care about at the top right now is $$$.

 

[SeaCastle]

Without having any information about crowds besides TouringPlans and TEA reports or detailed access to park financial performance and guest spending patterns I don't know how we can arrive at all these conclusions. What we do know is that price increases have outpaced inflation and - until relatively recently - the addition of new capacity has been outpaced by attraction/restaurant closings dating back to the 90s. Who else remembers the long slogs of the late 2000s and early 2010s when the only thing going on was the Fantasyland Expansion?

Disney is a business and has no mandate to provide an affordable vacation though some of us may wish it to have one for no other reason than that Disney is a fun time and I'd hope as many people get to enjoy it as possible. It does bother me to sit here from a computer and hope that price increases thin the herd because that's a double edged sword that may cut me back. Sooner or later the gravy train will run out and all of those middle or upper-middle income households that can afford Disney will be priced out, too.

And I will say that - as someone working in the tourism industry - there is a pattern at least in NJ of people being priced out of a week vacation in a beach town. There are fewer tourists and more rich families who own mcmansions that they use approximately 2-3 weeks per year or season. Some people try to make the argument that those families are spending more than your average tourist and regardless of whether or not that's true, there are less tourists overall and it makes owning an operating a business more risky than ever because you can't count on the crowds to be there and you similarly can't count on those wealthy, high spending households to be there either.

 

[thomas998]

Reality is the management wants to make money. They will raise the prices and you can count on that happening about every year forever. They have now started their tiered pricing which varies based on the date of your visit for one day tickets. I'm sure at some point they will be pricing the multi-day tickes in a tiered format too where the cheapest 3 day ticket wouldn't include weekdays and the most expensive would be your 3 day weekend.

I don't mind the price increases if they actually impact the crowds but thus far they haven't so I end up paying more and the crowds must get worse along with the price. I'm at a point where we no longer do a Disney only trip to Orlando and are shifting to Universal trips with just a halloween party at Disney because we hate the crowds so much. If they doubled the price, where the crowds actually were impacted we would actually go more often to Disney. At the rate they are going there will be a time when we will only go once in a while and only during special events where the crowds are slightly less than normal days.

As for APs the problem with AP's is not all AP's but mostly the locals that probably don't spend as much and guess what the local Florida residents get the cheapest AP's. If Disney wanted to be smart they would follow the lead of Six Flags over Texas. If you buy a annual pass from them it is based on your zip code and the closer you are to the park the more expensive the annual pass is because they know if you live close by you'll come more often and be less likely to spend as much when you do show up, vs an out of state person that gets a cheaper AP because they want them to come back and know when they do they are more likely to spend like the visitor that is on vacation and not just stopping by after school.

 

[Amos1784]

For sure, WDW loves you guys and will always cater to you and I totally get how AP's work for your situation. The fear I have is that AP holders that move to Orlando and essentially live there without spending much money are a big reason the parks are getting too crowded and making it hard to get fast passes. It may not be completely out of hand yet, but I can't see that WDW will expand enough to handle the growth and will have to make some changes. But I'm also guessing that if you can afford DVC and more you will probably pay for AP's increased rates.

I wish I knew a week to go where I could experience the light crowds as you say, I never see that anymore and I go at the unpeak times.

Then I think the first thing they would need to look at is increasing the prices and tiers of Florida resident passes. The regular annual pass in my opinion is already expensive and at the right price point. My husband and I are AP holders, we go three times a year, we stay on property, we eat every meal on property, we drink on property, do extra $$ events ect. We spend just as much if not more on each vacation as the once in a lifetime family that is there with us. However, I do agree that there are so many locals that have made the parks and even more you can say the resorts their everyday after work spots. Gone are the days of walking onto Spaceship Earth or Living with the Land on most days and at most times. The blogging/youtube/instagram trends have definitely impacted crowds for sure.

 

[eliza61nyc]

When someone complains that they got more for less in the past I just don't feel sorry for them because everyone of us is dealing with that and some are adjusting better.

My suggestion to Disney is to create a 5th theme park and combine it with a new huge conference center and somehow theme it all together. I'd make it futuristic, something that rekindled the wonderment we once felt at Epcot. Design this to take virtually half the crowds away from the other parks because if they do, they will get a lot of people to spend less time at Universal and other parks, but quite honestly, the worlds growth will keep them all plenty busy.

Lastly my opinion that some won't like. I feel that AP holder prices should go WAY UP, maybe doubled. Disneys favorite customers are the families that come once a year for one week, stay on site and dump a lot of money. If you look at the "Money spent per person per day" you will see this is true. I think that Disney has almost become too fanatical for some who come and suck up the fast passes but don't spend near the amount of money as that family that pays for hotel, eats every meal in the parks, etc.. I think AP holders are an important element of Disney, but there are getting to be too many. I predict they are already planning this. There are some people who do some really legit stuff with their AP's like going live in the parks so we can join them, and I would send them money to have them keep doing it.

Agree or disagree, the only thing that matters is what they do and they haven't asked my opinion. But I'm guessing I'm not too far off.

Question? where did you find the "money spent per person per day" information?

 

[eliza61nyc]

Fo

I wish I knew a week to go where I could experience the light crowds as you say, I never see that anymore and I go at the unpeak times.

I was just there the last week in August 8/29-9/5. except for labor day crowds were extremely light. Animal kingdom? Pandora was the only ride over a 30 minute wait and the second time we went on it it was a 55 minute wait at 3-4 pm. Expedition Everest, routinely 20-30 minutes. single rider stayed at 10 mins darn near all day.
I did a trip report with pictures of the low crowds. I think thats about as light as it's going to get

 

[larryz]

Not until universal gets rid of the contract.

And yet another Disney complex in, say, South Texas, would provide not only year-round access, but also cheap labor, Central American proximity, and relief from that onerous "Mississippi River" clause in the Marvel contract...