Potential New Member with Several Questions

[SoupBone]

Good morning everyone. I've read through the Disney FAQs, the FAQs here and several other sites and still don't quite understand many of the offerings of the DVC.

My wife and I usually travel once a year for a 6-7 night stay in either moderate or deluxe depending on how much we are able to save for the trip. We just got back from staying 6 nights at Old Key West and loved it. We usually go with a group of 2-6 friends (all adults) and split the cost of a villa. We've done this since 2005 and so far have never been disappointed.

In calculating the amount of money I've spent since 2005, just in costs alone (room, tickets, meals, travel), I'm around $20,000 total. In looking at the DVC, I see the financed amount (approx. $19,500) at 10.75% interest and the annual fees. Here's where all of this loses me. Buying into 160 points only appears to give me a 5 night stay at a moderate for 4 people without tickets, meal plans, etc? This hardly seems ideal since I believe I have more fleixibility and saving by waiting on free dining, pin numbers, or other ways to save on these trips. Or can you add these savings to your trips if you are DVC members?

I guess I'm just trying to figure out if it makes any sense for us to consider it. I would love to start going twice a year (which we've done 2 out of the years since 2005), but it would really need to make sense to me and the numbers haven't been in DVCs favor unless I'm missing something (completely possible).

One last question, I noticed a DVC member this past trip hit the fastpass for Toy Story Mania with 5 DVC card keys and a cast member asked him how many fastpasses he wanted. He said 'put 4 on each card' and I watched her in awe of the guy honestly. Is this some sort of perk to being a DVC member as well? Are you limited to a certain number per day, specific attractions, etc?

Thanks and sorry this is so long winded.

 

[disneyeater]

Good morning everyone. I've read through the Disney FAQs, the FAQs here and several other sites and still don't quite understand many of the offerings of the DVC.

My wife and I usually travel once a year for a 6-7 night stay in either moderate or deluxe depending on how much we are able to save for the trip. We just got back from staying 6 nights at Old Key West and loved it. We usually go with a group of 2-6 friends (all adults) and split the cost of a villa. We've done this since 2005 and so far have never been disappointed.

In calculating the amount of money I've spent since 2005, just in costs alone (room, tickets, meals, travel), I'm around $20,000 total. In looking at the DVC, I see the financed amount (approx. $19,500) at 10.75% interest and the annual fees. Here's where all of this loses me. Buying into 160 points only appears to give me a 5 night stay at a moderate for 4 people without tickets, meal plans, etc? This hardly seems ideal since I believe I have more fleixibility and saving by waiting on free dining, pin numbers, or other ways to save on these trips. Or can you add these savings to your trips if you are DVC members?

I guess I'm just trying to figure out if it makes any sense for us to consider it. I would love to start going twice a year (which we've done 2 out of the years since 2005), but it would really need to make sense to me and the numbers haven't been in DVCs favor unless I'm missing something (completely possible).

One last question, I noticed a DVC member this past trip hit the fastpass for Toy Story Mania with 5 DVC card keys and a cast member asked him how many fastpasses he wanted. He said 'put 4 on each card' and I watched her in awe of the guy honestly. Is this some sort of perk to being a DVC member as well? Are you limited to a certain number per day, specific attractions, etc?

Thanks and sorry this is so long winded.

I have never heard of the fastpass thing, althought that would be awesome if it were the case since I am a DVC member.

I assume you are looking at a 2-br since you said 160 only gets you 5 nights. You cannot get the other deals (i.e. free dining) with your DVC. However, I would suggest that you look into going the resale route. You can get 210 points for less than $12K and that is if you go for asking price, which you shouldn't.

I think the numbers will probably make more sense for you doing it that way.

Also, Old Key West is considered a deluxe, not a moderate.

 

[SoupBone]

I have never heard of the fastpass thing, althought that would be awesome if it were the case since I am a DVC member.

I assume you are looking at a 2-br since you said 160 only gets you 5 nights. You cannot get the other deals (i.e. free dining) with your DVC. However, I would suggest that you look into going the resale route. You can get 210 points for less than $12K and that is if you go for asking price, which you shouldn't.

I think the numbers will probably make more sense for you doing it that way.

Also, Old Key West is considered a deluxe, not a moderate.

The fastpass thing caught me off guard for sure. My buddy and I were directly behind the guy with the cards and couldn't believe he was asked how many he wanted to put on each card. We tried to figure out if maybe there was an additional charge, you are limited to a certain number per card per day, or if we just happen to catch some fluke where he was allowed to ask for some unknown reason not related to being a DVc member.

When you suggest the resale route, are you talking about purchasing other people's points? I've looked into that a few times and it never made much sense because I like to plan trips so far in advance. I just know that I've spent a lot of money since 2005, and if the DVC would benefit me with extra perks, etc. I would consider it. I don't mind spending $2,500 - $3,000 a trip each year because it usually comes with free dining, discounted room upgrades, or some other perk that make it cost effective. I do know that these deals will probably be a lot less once the economy flips back, but for now these deals don't seem to be going away.

I know Old Key West is a deluxe, I was just saying we usually stay either moderate or deluxe and almost never stay at value. I posted that because I'm not sure how much of a difference that makes when considering the DVC. Thanks for your response!

 

[Pioneer Hall]

Something tells me that your looking at the wrong charts if a moderate resort was somehow included in your analysis. Moderate resorts can only be booked by transferring your points for booking in the Disney collection and those are much higher per night. Your points are only truly valuable if you use them at one of the DVC resorts. Take a look at the link below and you can see the points charts from the Disney Vacation club resorts. Based on the time of year you go, the size of the room you want, the resort you stay in, and potentially the view will determine the amount of points you will need per night. The number of nights that you can get for 160 points will greatly depend on the variables I listed.

You are correct in saying that without DVC you are open to other discounts that a member wouldn't normally book. However, if DVC membership works for your vacation habits then the price of membership will outweigh any other discount available. Of course that will depend on the variables I listed above.

Figuring out if DVC will work for you is really a math equation. Look at the charts and determine how many points you will need for the trips you want to take. From there you can determine what your payments and dues will be and you can see if the savings are there for you. There is no clear cut answer when asking if DVC is worth it...that will be completely dependent on each individual scenario. Also, keep in mind when purchasing that there is a very active resale market that can save you a considerable amount of money when looking to purchase your points.

 

[Pioneer Hall]

Also...the fastpass thing is probably them loading cards that they give away at sales presentations. When you attend a sales presentation on property you are given a card that is good for four fastpasses at any attraction that takes it. So it probably has something to do with that. Members don't receive any extra benefits when it comes to fastpasses in the parks.

 

[SoupBone]

Something tells me that your looking at the wrong charts if a moderate resort was somehow included in your analysis. Moderate resorts can only be booked by transferring your points for booking in the Disney collection and those are much higher per night. Your points are only truly valuable if you use them at one of the DVC resorts. Take a look at the link below and you can see the points charts from the Disney Vacation club resorts. Based on the time of year you go, the size of the room you want, the resort you stay in, and potentially the view will determine the amount of points you will need per night. The number of nights that you can get for 160 points will greatly depend on the variables I listed.

You are correct in saying that without DVC you are open to other discounts that a member wouldn't normally book. However, if DVC membership works for your vacation habits then the price of membership will outweigh any other discount available. Of course that will depend on the variables I listed above.

Figuring out if DVC will work for you is really a math equation. Look at the charts and determine how many points you will need for the trips you want to take. From there you can determine what your payments and dues will be and you can see if the savings are there for you. There is no clear cut answer when asking if DVC is worth it...that will be completely dependent on each individual scenario. Also, keep in mind when purchasing that there is a very active resale market that can save you a considerable amount of money when looking to purchase your points.

In looking again, when I saw Saratoga Springs, I thought moderate, but I always get Saratoga and Coronado confused. I know that the DVC is an individual question, but when you travel with 4-6 other people each trip, I find it's a lot tougher to say if it's a value for just me and my wife. Again, my travel history to WDW since 2005 has been fairly straight forward. 6-7 nights at a moderate or deluxe with either free dining or using a pin. If I continued to do this each year and not increase to two trips a year, would the DVC actually result in any additional perks (whether it be savings or not)? I looked at the trip calculator last night since I'm considering May for another trip and the DVC points cost didn't appear to save me any money. I also understand that if you become a DVC member, you really shouldn't be looking at savings in raw numbers, but rather in items such as room upgrades. In other words, if you stay at a moderate paying out of pocket, you would pay similar prices, but be able to stay in the deluxe accomodations.

I like the idea of the DVC and can certainly afford it, but I'm trying to truly see the difference between doing what we currently do now on trips versus what the DVC can offer us. Thanks again for the responses.

 

[disneyeater]

What I meant by resale is purchasing someone elses membership, not just their points in a given year. The memberships sell at a 50% or more discount when compared to purchasing directly from Disney.

Take a look at the Old Key West point chart and see what accomodations you want at what time of year. This will let you understand how many points you need. If you stay in a studio in September or January, 160 points can get you 2 weeks a year at Old Key West.

 

[SoupBone]

Also...the fastpass thing is probably them loading cards that they give away at sales presentations. When you attend a sales presentation on property you are given a card that is good for four fastpasses at any attraction that takes it. So it probably has something to do with that. Members don't receive any extra benefits when it comes to fastpasses in the parks.

Would it have had the DVC logo on it? These cards definitely had that logo as I was able to see it clearly when the cast member put the card into the fastpass machine. Your explanation makes sense.

 

[disneyeater]

Also if you can schedule your 1 trip each year to actually fall into being 2 trips in one calendar year (i.e. one trip at the end of September and the next at the beginning of next September), then the DVC annual pass discount may come into play. Also if you did get that AP, you could get a tables in wonderland card for dining savings as well.

 

[Pioneer Hall]

In looking again, when I saw Saratoga Springs, I thought moderate, but I always get Saratoga and Coronado confused. I know that the DVC is an individual question, but when you travel with 4-6 other people each trip, I find it's a lot tougher to say if it's a value for just me and my wife. Again, my travel history to WDW since 2005 has been fairly straight forward. 6-7 nights at a moderate or deluxe with either free dining or using a pin. If I continued to do this each year and not increase to two trips a year, would the DVC actually result in any additional perks (whether it be savings or not)? I looked at the trip calculator last night since I'm considering May for another trip and the DVC points cost didn't appear to save me any money. I also understand that if you become a DVC member, you really shouldn't be looking at savings in raw numbers, but rather in items such as room upgrades. In other words, if you stay at a moderate paying out of pocket, you would pay similar prices, but be able to stay in the deluxe accomodations.

I like the idea of the DVC and can certainly afford it, but I'm trying to truly see the difference between doing what we currently do now on trips versus what the DVC can offer us. Thanks again for the responses.

I think part of the situation here is that you are looking at DVC as a short term thing, and it definitely is not. You also obviously won't be saving on DVC if you are currently used to splitting a room with 5 other people. DVC is a long term investment and financial decision. You need to not only think about how you will travel next year, but how you will travel in 20 years. Based on your current travel habits, it really doesn't seem like DVC would be a worthwhile investment for you. However, you would probably save a considerable amount of money by renting points from a current member to book a villa.

 

[SoupBone]

What I meant by resale is purchasing someone elses membership, not just their points in a given year. The memberships sell at a 50% or more discount when compared to purchasing directly from Disney.

Take a look at the Old Key West point chart and see what accomodations you want at what time of year. This will let you understand how many points you need. If you stay in a studio in September or January, 160 points can get you 2 weeks a year at Old Key West.

Ahhhhh ok, well I'll take a look at that. We try to stay during off or slightly moderate seasons to avoide the crowds although we did stay during new Years last year. While it was fun, I just don't care to battle those types of crowds again. 2 weeks at Old Key West means 10 nights correct? When people refer to a week i usually think 6nights/7days, but I've also seen it refered to as 5nights/6days. 2 weeks at a resort like OKW would definitely seem like it was cost effective since we usually only stay 6-7 nights, once a year. Thanks again.

 

[SoupBone]

I think part of the situation here is that you are looking at DVC as a short term thing, and it definitely is not. You also obviously won't be saving on DVC if you are currently used to splitting a room with 5 other people. DVC is a long term investment and financial decision. You need to not only think about how you will travel next year, but how you will travel in 20 years. Based on your current travel habits, it really doesn't seem like DVC would be a worthwhile investment for you. However, you would probably save a considerable amount of money by renting points from a current member to book a villa.

I appreciate all of these responses so far and the honesty behind them. Let me toss out one more hypothetical if possible. Since we travel with me and my wife and usually 4-6 other friends, if I invested in DVC, would it make sense to book let's say an 8 person villa and have them pitch in? This way I could book the way i wanted to on trips where it would just be me and my wife, but have others help out when they come along. Do they receive any benefits from traveling with DVC members?

I agree that you might be right and the DVC may not be a consideration at the moment, but I know this much:

1. I have no intention of stopping at least my once yearly trip to WDW, and that may increase once I have children.

2. In calculating costs, I know I could afford the DVC since I could nearly have paid off the membership if I had joined in 2005 when we started our WDW addiction.

Thanks again for all of the advice. You have given me more to consider and are allowing me to make an educated decision.

 

[disneyeater]

Ahhhhh ok, well I'll take a look at that. We try to stay during off or slightly moderate seasons to avoide the crowds although we did stay during new Years last year. While it was fun, I just don't care to battle those types of crowds again. 2 weeks at Old Key West means 10 nights correct? When people refer to a week i usually think 6nights/7days, but I've also seen it refered to as 5nights/6days. 2 weeks at a resort like OKW would definitely seem like it was cost effective since we usually only stay 6-7 nights, once a year. Thanks again.

By 2 weeks I meant 14 nights. For 160 points you can stay 14 nights a year at Old Key West in January, September, October, and most of November and December. You can probably buy a resale contract for Old Key West for 160 points for around $9K. Sounds like you may even be able to get by with a 100 point contract.

 

[Pioneer Hall]

I appreciate all of these responses so far and the honesty behind them. Let me toss out one more hypothetical if possible. Since we travel with me and my wife and usually 4-6 other friends, if I invested in DVC, would it make sense to book let's say an 8 person villa and have them pitch in? This way I could book the way i wanted to on trips where it would just be me and my wife, but have others help out when they come along. Do they receive any benefits from traveling with DVC members?

I agree that you might be right and the DVC may not be a consideration at the moment, but I know this much:

1. I have no intention of stopping at least my once yearly trip to WDW, and that may increase once I have children.

2. In calculating costs, I know I could afford the DVC since I could nearly have paid off the membership if I had joined in 2005 when we started our WDW addiction.

Thanks again for all of the advice. You have given me more to consider and are allowing me to make an educated decision.

You could charge your friends to stay with you, but that would be completely between you and them. DVC is a real estate transaction, so similar to purchasing a house you will be signing a deed. At the end of the day it will be your responsibility to pay off the mortgage (if you have one) and continue to pay the dues every year. If you would ant your friends to chip in you can determine that with them and decide what they would pay you. However, that would be something completely different and would have nothing to do with your signing of the deed. Keep in mind though that you will still have to pay for everything even when they decide not to go.

I still believe that with the setup you have now, renting points from another member is a better idea than purchasing outright. You can rent points for about 10 dollars a piece which will net you a considerable savings over discounts most of the time.

 

[slappy magoo]

Like DisneyInsider wrote, DVC is a real estate purchase. Even though eventually your share of the time share reverts back to Disney, you are technically an owner of one teeny tiny piece of one of the DVC resorts until that day occurs, which is decades down the road (it varies depending on which resort becomes your home resort).

I don't know if you tradiationally go to WDW with the same friends every year, and if they'd want to be DVC members, too, and if you could all possibly get on the same title as co-owners. I suspect all of that would be more trouble than it's worth, especially if you have a falling out with one or more of these friends, or they move away, can't go to WDW for a prolonged period of time, etc. You'd have to then either sell your membership or see if they'd be willing to let you buy them out, or they buy you out...like I said, more trouble than it's worth.

If you're still considering buying into DVC, one thing you could consider doing is working out something with your friends where you own the DVC, you pay for the DVC membership, but when they come with you, they pitch in by paying for your park tickets or meal plans or airfare or something. I think that might be easier than trying to determine what the value of the room is and then charging them a piece of that amount.

Any "savings" you get in being a DVC member, you generally have to think long-term. Yeah, as a DVC member, it can suck when an awesome deal comes out for the general public. But of course, not everyone can go to WDW when they're running those deals and there's never a guarantee those deals will return year after year. Because the travel industry is hurting so much right now, Disney seems to be offering a lot of special promotions, but when the economic situation improves, and they don't NEED to entice people to come down, who knows if free dining will be an option?

Plus, the room rates seem to go up more noticeably than the maintenance fees for DVC members. When my wife and I first went to WDW in 2004, rack rates at the AKL (where we stayed but got annual pass discounts on the room) were $199 in late August. Now that's up to $240 a night. Meanwhile, when we joined DVC, our fees were around $3.83 a point, now they're up to 4.52. I have 175 points. SO it's about $120 more a year than when I first joined (and I have enough points where an 11 night stay in a studio is feasible for the same time of the year), versus 40 more a night than when I first went.

I'm not going to be all gung-ho one way or the other, as it seems your vacationing habits are drastically different from mine. DVC works for me. But I've yet to travel there with anyone but my nuclear family, as the father (as opposed to going with my folks or my sibs), I'm not splitting the cost of a room with anyone like you seem to usually do.

OK, I'll try to tempt you this way, haha. Being a DVC member allows you to get annual passes for cheaper than the general public. Having annual passes allows you to get regular rooms for less, and you can pay $75 more to get the "Tables in Wonderland" card which enables you to get 20% off your total tab (including alcohol) at most sit-down restaurants in WDW. You can use your DVC membership at one time of the year for a trip that's just the two of you, then go back later in the year with your friends, using your pass to get cheaper rooms, and your Tables in Wonderland car for cheaper eats.

 

[tjkraz]

I appreciate all of these responses so far and the honesty behind them. Let me toss out one more hypothetical if possible. Since we travel with me and my wife and usually 4-6 other friends, if I invested in DVC, would it make sense to book let's say an 8 person villa and have them pitch in?

You could do that, but you would have to figure out some means of amicably divvying up the charges. DVC is a great way to save money on Deluxe accommodations, but you aren't going to get a 1200 sq ft, two bedroom villa for a cost comparable to a single deluxe hotel room.

2. In calculating costs, I know I could afford the DVC since I could nearly have paid off the membership if I had joined in 2005 when we started our WDW addiction.

Not necessarily true if your $20,000 in expenses also included park tickets, dining plans and other expenses.

You would be paying $20K to DVC PLUS annual dues PLUS park tickets PLUS dining expenses PLUS airfare...

All of that said, DVC is a great way to lock-in deluxe accommodations for far less than Disney's rack rates. However there are some trade offs. If you compare to Value rooms DVC will still cost more. Compared to a Moderate there are savings but not dramatic.

And in doing those comparisons, you need to look at DVC Studio Villas. If you want something larger like a One or Two Bedroom villa, the price goes up proportionately.

Still I could demonstrate to you how a single night in a DVC Studio costs me only about $75-85. A night in a One Bedroom is around $140-150.

But there are downsides. First your making a big, long-term financial commitment to Disney. As a cash guest you have the freedom to skip a year if necessary. Depending upon one's stage of life, this could be a major consideration. Buying a house...starting a family...those are life-changing obligations which could dramatically alter one's priorities AND budget.

When you buy into DVC, the mortgage payments (if financed) and annual dues must be paid every month / year whether the points are used or not. And if you actually use the points, that's more money still for tickets, transportation, food, souvenirs, golf, etc.

DVC members don't get to take advantage of special offers like "free dining." Those promos are designed to fill the cash hotels during otherwise slow periods. If you're content paying for a Value room and getting free dining for a family of 4, that will certainly cost less than DVC. Of course, there's no way of knowing when Disney will tweak those offers or discontinue "free dining." And good luck pulling your kids out of school for a vacation in September when they're in 3rd and 5th grades.

As a DVC member, I'm giving Disney more money each year than I would have ever dreamed. However, I'm also getting better value for my money than most non-members. The trick is figuring out if you're really in a sound position to make that commitment.

 

[brightlillstar]

DH and I JUST purchased 160 points at BLT. BLT is the most expensive resort and we bought direct, so we paid a whopping $22,400 for this interest (You can buy direct from a less expensive resort, or buy resale for a cheaper up front cost, but my DH was determined to buy direct. He likes the added benefits and the fact that loan is not reported to the credit bureaus so it wouldn't be detrimental if we want to get a mortgage). Anyway, we have 160 points per year times 48 years, so our effective cost per point is $2.92

Right now the dues are $3+ a point. I don't feel like looking it up so let's assume $4 a point. So every year we have to pay $640 in maintenance.

If dues are $4 a point and we paid about $3 a point it's costing us $7 per point. So for example to stay at a studio n value season at Saratoga at 95 points, it would effectively cost us $665 for the 7 nights. This is a HUGE discount off of rack, and it's essentially staying at a Deluxe for only a few dollars more than a value with the AP discount, not to mention that between the two of us, we'll save $200 every year (or every other year based on how we use our APs...) on our APs.

Another way to look at it is that the $22,400 over 48 years is $467 a year. Plus today's maintenance fees are $640. As long as we get $1107 worth of value out of our points, it's worth it. Considering that we could get a full week in a Magic Kingdom view studio every single year with points leftover, we;ll definitely get that value. The rack on that has to be over $200 a night even in the off season, and it's probably closer to $400. I haven't even looked at rack for those resorts because I could never afford it.

Also, if we choose not to spend our points in a given year and rent them instead, the going rate is $10+ per point, so we could get $1600 in any given year, vs. the $1100 "break even" point.

I know these calculations do NOT account for the future rises in maintenance costs, or for the time value of money, but based on the 8 years I've been going to disney world, I think the increases in rack rate, or even discounted rate of the regular resorts will outpace that. For example, we currently typically stay in Value resorts. When we first started 8 years ago, Rack was around $70 and we got AP rates for $44. Now the AP rate we got was about $66 and Rack is $105. These rates have literally increased 50% in 8 years. The price I paid for my DVC interest will NOT increase, and the dues can increase a maximum of 15% per year.

We always stay in Values now and we still feel that DVC is a good financial decision. If you stay in Deluxe, you'll definitely see the savings if you do vacation each year.

Even if you stay with friends and split the costs with them, I think you'll still save money long term.

JMO.

I'm very new at this, but I just went through all this with my DH so I wanted to share how we did our math

 

[tjkraz]

He likes the added benefits and the fact that loan is not reported to the credit bureaus so it wouldn't be detrimental if we want to get a mortgage).

FYI when you apply for a mortgage--or really any loan--you are required to disclose any outstanding obligations.

I'm not second-guessing your reasons for buying direct but you should be aware of this if/when the time comes to go into something like a mortgage. The fact that the DVC loan isn't listed on a credit report doesn't relieve you of the obligation to make it known. When you sign that loan application, you will be certifying that it represents a full and accurate disclosure of your personal finances.

 

[brightlillstar]

FYI when you apply for a mortgage--or really any loan--you are required to disclose any outstanding obligations.

I'm not second-guessing your reasons for buying direct but you should be aware of this if/when the time comes to go into something like a mortgage. The fact that the DVC loan isn't listed on a credit report doesn't relieve you of the obligation to make it known. When you sign that loan application, you will be certifying that it represents a full and accurate disclosure of your personal finances.

That's true, but our FICO scores won't take a hit from having the loan or a higher debt/income ratio. The loan will be on our application, but as I understand it, your rate is very heavily dependent on your FICO score

If it were up to me, we'd at the very least seriously consider resale, but DH is much more comfortable with buying direct and I'm tired of arguing with him, as he is tired of me calling him at work to say "but on the message boards, they said...."

I'm at the stage now where I'm making peace with the decision and hoping for years of awesome vacations that will far outweigh any additional cost

ETA: We're planning to pay this and all other outstanding debt obligations (including student loans, our 0% financed furniture, credit cards, etc) before we look for a mortgage, but it's good to have some flexibility. I was trying to convince DH to wait a year so we can pay cash, or buy resale with a credit union loan, but he won't have any of it

 

[Phonedave]

That's true, but our FICO scores won't take a hit from having the loan or a higher debt/income ratio. The loan will be on our application, but as I understand it, your rate is very heavily dependent on your FICO score

If it were up to me, we'd at the very least seriously consider resale, but DH is much more comfortable with buying direct and I'm tired of arguing with him, as he is tired of me calling him at work to say "but on the message boards, they said...."

I'm at the stage now where I'm making peace with the decision and hoping for years of awesome vacations that will far outweigh any additional cost

ETA: We're planning to pay this and all other outstanding debt obligations (including student loans, our 0% financed furniture, credit cards, etc) before we look for a mortgage, but it's good to have some flexibility. I was trying to convince DH to wait a year so we can pay cash, or buy resale with a credit union loan, but he won't have any of it

FICO scores are like black magic. It is very possible that having a small loan, such as a DVC loan, on your credit reports showing a history of on time payments could INCREASE your credit scores.


-dave