Point Requirement Changes over the Years?!?!

[ncstate7991]

I did a brief search for this and couldn't seem to find it, so I just figured I would start a thread about it. We are considering DVC, but I had a question. For resorts that have been around for a while, what were the original point requirements for a one bedroom and two bedroom for one week? Have the point requirements been steady, gone down, or gone up?

This is a totally seperate question, but I have read were some people will buy 25-50 points at a second (or third :animwink DVC resort. Can you only use the new 25-50 points at the 11 month mark or can you add your original say 160 points from a different resort to the new 25-50 points at the 11 month booking mark? Hopefully this question makes sense. Thanks in advance ... everyone has been very helpful!

 

[Cubs Brian]

I did a brief search for this and couldn't seem to find it, so I just figured I would start a thread about it. We are considering DVC, but I had a question. For resorts that have been around for a while, what were the original point requirements for a one bedroom and two bedroom for one week? Have the point requirements been steady, gone down, or gone up?

This is a totally seperate question, but I have read were some people will buy 25-50 points at a second (or third :animwink DVC resort. Can you only use the new 25-50 points at the 11 month mark or can you add your original say 160 points from a different resort to the new 25-50 points at the 11 month booking mark? Hopefully this question makes sense. Thanks in advance ... everyone has been very helpful!

To answer your second question first, you would only be able to use the 25-50 points at the 11 month window. As far as the first question a little more complicated. The points required to rent a particular room in theory does not go up or down, but rather certain seasons or days may be adjusted up or down. Say you bought in for AKV for 160 points, when you bought in a 1 bdrm in Jan for a Sun through Thurs was 35pts per night and Fri-Sat were 55pts per night(just an example). The next year the points were adjusted So Sun- Thurs were 37pts per night but Fri- Sat dropped to 50 ppn. 160 points will always get you for lack of a better phrase the same amount of time, if a room requires more points at a certain time of week or year, another time of week or year will have an equal decrease. sounds confusing and i hope I got it right, If not maybe Slappy can clear it up for you.

 

[tjkraz]

160 points will always get you for lack of a better phrase the same amount of time...

That's not necessarily true. Owners who typically stuck to weekday nights have found that continuing the same pattern now costs more points. The problem was that weekends were just too expensive relative to the weekdays. Weekends should be higher to some degree to combat too many locals (people within easy driving distance) from exclusively using points for long weekend stays.

But pricing the weekends at 2 - 2.5 the cost of a weeknight was just too high. Too many people were paying cash for weekends or simply planning Sunday - Friday stays, leaving the villas severely under utilized on the weekends.

The recent changes are designed to bring thing more in balance.

In most cases there were only minimal changes to the cost for a full WEEK, but members who habitually used points for Sun - Thurs nights will certainly find those nights costing more than they have in the past.

...if a room requires more points at a certain time of week or year, another time of week or year will have an equal decrease.

There you nailed it.

If you add up the points required to book every room in a resort for every night of the year, THAT is the figure that cannot change. DVC can alter the weekday/weekend balance, they can tweak the seasons, or they could even eliminate all of the seasons and go to a system where every night costs exactly the same number of points (not holding my breath for that to happen, though.)

The idea behind the point charts is to balance demand. Members are what drive the demand.

The entire foundation of a timeshare like DVC is near 100% occupancy year round. So DVC really had an obligation to members to periodically adjust the charts to help balance that demand. The should be encouraging stays when occupancy is low and charging more when demand is high.

When the points changed in 2010 it was the first adjustment since around 1996. The responsible approach is to tweak things about every 5 years. Making periodic small adjustments helps us avoid the radical changes as we saw in '09 and '10.

 

[dreamscometrue]

Great explanations, so there's not much I can add. I will say though, what our DVC guide told us...the total number of points on any given DVC chart cannot change.

 

[ncstate7991]

Thank you guys for a great easy to understand answers. Now, I have a follow-up question. Do you know the chart point total per resort for all DVC resorts? In other words, which resorts have the lowest/highest point chart total. And is that point chart total kind of like the DVC star rating?

 

[disneyny]

I think I understand and I was wondering the same thing as the OP. I was thinking that if points go up each year like prices do at Disney then DVC is not a very good deal. But if the points are the same each year and the cost to buy into DVC is what changes with inflation then it makes sense to buy in. For example if I buy 150 points now at $70 a point it makes sense that in 10 years someone could not buy 150 points at that cost. But if I buy in and today it costs me 35 points to vacation for a certain time and in 10 years it cost 100 points- there by forcing you to keep buying points it would be a ridiculous program. So i am making a good decision to buy in right?:animwink:

 

[ncstate7991]

Disneyny, your statement seems somewhat correct, but at some point in time DVC points do expire. So, my thinking is as the expiration time gets closer the points will start to become worth less and less. Only time and Disney will tell (b/c Disney has the first right of refusal on resales).

 

[Phonedave]

One other thing to remember is that while your point allotment does not change, and the total point spread at a resort does not change, your dues can (and most likely will) go up year over year.

Now, thats not to say they just jack them up for the sake of making money.

1) DVC CANNOT make money off of the dues. By law, the dues are to cover the operating costs, and only the operating costs of the resort.

2) There is also a maximum amount the dues can go up in one year, even if the operating costs would require a larger raise. I forget the percentage, but it is Florida law.

However, you are putting your trust in the DVC management to operate the resort in a balanced manner. Not spending too much, but spending enough so that you are happy to stay there.

Oh, and one other thing to be aware of. Different resorts have different average point costs. For example, a room at Bay Lake Tower is going to cost you more points than a similar room at OKW. So if you plan on owning/staying at BLT, you will most likely need a larger contract than if you planned to own/stay at OKW

-dave

 

[disneyny]

Right- I do understand that the dues will go up but hopefully never near the percentage that rooms at Disney go up. I do not understand how the points would be worth less and less as the contract nears expiration?

 

[DisneyPhD]

Right- I do understand that the dues will go up but hopefully never near the percentage that rooms at Disney go up. I do not understand how the points would be worth less and less as the contract nears expiration?

Even if dues and rack rates increase by the same percentage, the actual cost increase will still be less for the dues. Let's say a room "costs" $50 in points while rack rate is $200. With a 5% increase, the room paid with dues increases $2.50 to $52.50 while the rack rate room increases $10 to $210. So the same % increase costs $7.50 more per night for rack rate. Math is fun!
The contract being worth less as the end of the contract nears is more related to attempting to sell the contract. Selling a contract with 30 years remaining should be worth more than a contract with just 5 years remaining.

 

[dreamscometrue]

Thank you guys for a great easy to understand answers. Now, I have a follow-up question. Do you know the chart point total per resort for all DVC resorts? In other words, which resorts have the lowest/highest point chart total. And is that point chart total kind of like the DVC star rating?

As members, we have charts with all the points in our annual vacation planners which are mailed to us. Also, the dvcmember website, which you have access to once you become a member, has points charts typically for the current year and the next one. It also has a points calculator and lots of other planning tools. I've never added up a whole page to check out points totals. Overall, perhaps OKW is the lowest and BLT is highest, but it's almost pointless (no pun intended) to do this kind of thing when so much depends on the type of vacation you want, not just the resort.

I don't think I'd say that the points are like ratings. The points at many resorts depend on the view you choose (Boardwalk view, savannah view, Magic Kingdom view, standard view, etc.), as well as the type of accomodations.

A 7 night stay in standard view studio in October, for example, uses 89, 105 and 84 points at the Animal Kingdom Villas, Bay Lake Tower and The Boardwalk, respectively. It's not correct, however, to assume that The Animal Kingdom Villas always uses fewer than BLT. Change the view and the points change.

The same stay that uses 105 points at BLT, jumps from 89 at AKL to 110 at AKL when you choose savannah view. Same size room, different view. Choosing an MK view at BLT increases your 105 point stay to 144.

The other major factor is the time of year (rate season) of course. One thing I really like about DVC compared to just booking and paying rack rates at WDW, is the DVC holiday season at Christmas runs from Dec. 24th-31st. The rate season rack rates are holiday from Dec. 18th-31st, and still are really high in the 'New Year's season, Jan. 1st and 2nd.

We arrived this year 4 days before Christmas (not DVC holiday season) and stayed in a studio at BLT and only used 13pts per night. The rack rate (holiday season if 'renting') for non DVC members was $540 + $50 (18 and 19 year olds...extra adults), plus taxes for a total of $663.75 per night. Four night total...$2655. We would (could) never pay that, but it only used 52 pts and was awesome to be next to MK on the monorail line during the holidays. It was our treat to us. DVC allowed us to 'afford' that...first time ever on monorail line. (We spent the remainder in the peace and tranquility of AKL Villas...our fav resort ). Next 'Christmas season', we can start Jan. 1st, and do a week in a studio for only 81 points...awesome!...or a value 1 bedroom at AKL for only 139 points.

Sorry for the drift, but we keep finding things that are awesome (like the short DVC 'holiday' season) that we never really thought about when we joined 3 years ago.

 

[Phonedave]

Right- I do understand that the dues will go up but hopefully never near the percentage that rooms at Disney go up. I do not understand how the points would be worth less and less as the contract nears expiration?

Right now a SSR contract is worth about $95 a point on the open market. (or as open as it can get with Disney's ROFR)

You will find people willing to buy for $95 a point.

However the DVC is not forever, it expires Jan 31, 2054 (for SSR)

If you tried to sell your SSR contract in 2050, you would get much less per point that $95. Nobody is going to pay that when they only get 4 more years out of the contract.

That is what people mean by the points will be worth less. The points will still get you the same amount of rooms (within the point balancing rules) but if you wanted to look at cash value, it will go down.

-dave

 

[slappy magoo]

when you buy into DVC, you're buying a teeny tiny percentage of your home resort for the duration of the deed. That percentage is represented as "points" but it's still a percentage. For the DVC to raise prices in all rooms across all days, the way WDW raises resort room rates, would be tantamount to saying DVC owners now own less of a percentage than their legally-binding contract/deed specifies. No one can do that. It's tantamount to buying 100 shares of stock in Disney, and then a few years later being told, not that your shares might be worth less, but your 100 shares is REALLY only 95 shares. Similar deal.

So if anyone ever asks - or worse, TELLS YOU - that DVC is an awful deal because they're always raising point values on the rooms, feel free to tell them they're woefully misinformed or deliberately spreading the horse hockey around.

 

[dizzney]

I think I understand and I was wondering the same thing as the OP. I was thinking that if points go up each year like prices do at Disney then DVC is not a very good deal. But if the points are the same each year and the cost to buy into DVC is what changes with inflation then it makes sense to buy in. For example if I buy 150 points now at $70 a point it makes sense that in 10 years someone could not buy 150 points at that cost. But if I buy in and today it costs me 35 points to vacation for a certain time and in 10 years it cost 100 points- there by forcing you to keep buying points it would be a ridiculous program. So i am making a good decision to buy in right?:animwink:

The point cost only goes up, our initial BW investment for 220 points only cost us around $11,800.00 IN 1999, the cost of which we realized back within 5 years (we didnt finance), these days with a down real estate market, you can buy that amount of points between 17,800 and 20,000. And people buying in at that are getting 11 less years than we got, since it expires in 2042.

We added on twice at BWV bringing our points to 275 and then 100 at BLT, it will take us a while longer to realize back our BLT as the point cost was higher BUT it expires in 2060. we have it for 52 years.

It definitely is a worthwhile investment over time, Good Luck!