MK Piston Peak and Villains Land Construction Thread

JohnD

Well-Known Member
This is the vibe I was imagining for an underground Railroad station inside the mountains of Villains Land...
View attachment 878206
Yes. There should be a Villains Train Station which would be comparable to the Mickey's Toontown train station in DL. It will be way up in the far NW side of MK. A train station would provide convenient access to it and Cars Land.
 

TrainsOfDisney

Well-Known Member
It's kind of surprising to me ventilation isn't an issue in all the dioramas and tunnels in the castle parks. That Disneyland diorama tunnel is almost three football fields long!
If you zoom in on google maps you can see the ventilation slots that go throughout the building. If it was a tunnel with no ventilation it would be an issue for sure.
 

Bocabear

Well-Known Member
I like this explanation.

It's possible they might have to move launchers. I'm also highly speculating where things are going. Personally, I'd like to see the dark ride/dark castle on the far left area - it might mimic the Falcon at DL if so.

I just want Villains Land to leverage HEA fireworks. However they pull that off would be a huge win.
It would be fascinating to have the same fireworks show visible, but with a completely alternate soundtrack that syncs up ...A reason to see the fireworks again from the Villain's Lair...or whatever they are going to call it... Villain's Lair Outpost at Sanity's Edge.....
 

James Alucobond

Well-Known Member
I would honestly prefer they keep the Frontierland Station and just add a diorama or some scenery. I like having just 3 stops.
It would honestly be awesome if it was just fully integrated and naturally made use of the new scenery in the northwest and then, like, briefly passed through a tunnel in the extreme north attached to a dragon's lair or something that doubled as part of the coaster.
 

Bocabear

Well-Known Member
The Train line definitely could use some new scenery and show scenes....especially with the destruction of everything around the water's edge including the water...lol There has never been much to look at on the train rute... Hopefully they will take advantage of this opportunity to really add some engaging settings that correspond to each land and make it feel more like a journey than just transportation.....
 

truecoat

Well-Known Member
The Train line definitely could use some new scenery and show scenes....especially with the destruction of everything around the water's edge including the water...lol There has never been much to look at on the train rute... Hopefully they will take advantage of this opportunity to really add some engaging settings that correspond to each land and make it feel more like a journey than just transportation.....
Although close to the Frontier station, I'd like to see another stop around this area.

wdw station.jpg
 

Bocabear

Well-Known Member
Although close to the Frontier station, I'd like to see another stop around this area.

View attachment 878376
But until we see the footprint of what they are actually building, it is hard to even think about where another station would fit... There are still too many unknowns at this point... the only thing we are sure of is another 3-4 years of construction walls, and the river and TSI being obliterated.... other than that, it is a guessing game... At any minute I feel like the budget could be cut and we will be getting a flat ride and a snack kiosk in an unidentifiable location.... lol
 

jah4955

Well-Known Member
Although close to the Frontier station, I'd like to see another stop around this area.

View attachment 878376
Here's hoping. Even before the closure of the NW corner, the MK route was absolutely no-comparison to Disneyland's. What little there was, however, I loved, and all of that is now gone--I'm going to miss it. But if they do absolutely nothing else, I hope their plans include, somehow, "doctoring-up" that overpass. I realize there are other glimpses of the real world along the route, but I particularly hated that one. This proposed station location also seems to be a healthy equidistance from Frontierland and Fantasyland Stations. As a kid, when Magic Kingdom only had 2 stations total, I was intrigued that Disneyland had several, including Tomorrowland. So I don't think 4 MK stations total would be overkill.
 

DrStarlander

Well-Known Member
The Disneyland railroad, with four stations, has a station on average every 500 meters of track. At Magic Kingdom, which has three stations, it's on average every 800 meters. And Disneyland is already a smaller park to cross on foot. It seems like a no-brainer to put a station in Villains Land and bring that average length to 600 feet and give tired guests an option to get from the far back of the park to the front, so they can leave without clogging walkways.

Disneyland also has two incredible dioramas back-to-back, and a diorama would be a great addition to MK's railroad in Villains Land. Not only would it be a cool, unexpected "plussing up" and provide some parity between MK and several other castle parks, but I think it offers a chance to introduce the thematic concept and backstory of Villains Land.

That is, Villains Land will undoubtedly be cool, but it's still a tough concept creatively to bring all the villains together in one realm and rationalize it story-wise. Sure, they can just lean on tropes and motifs and aesthetic design and hand-wave away any need to explain what the place is supposed to be and why it exists, but it will be stronger -- and it's in Imagineering's tradition -- to have a backstory.

But often these backstories, which serve to inspire the Imagineers, can go unknown by guests, leaving them confused by the creative choices in the land. Avenger's Campus is a perfect example: that weird mix of old industrial brick buildings and a modern sleek office park is meaningless and doesn't resonate (i.e., trigger warmth of recognition by guests)...unless you know the backstory that the site was once the location of Stark Industries, and by the way, you have to even know what that is, like Marvel fans do. Other than putting "Stark Industries" logos all over the land, they didn't leave much other evidence of that history (old 1950s rockets or flying cars or anything Howard Stark may have built back then that may be left over).

All that may be a bit of an aside, but the point is backstories are helpful, but Disney can get a better reaction from guests when they actually convey them, and not just use them as a design-process tool.

So, a train diorama leading into Villains Land (and hopefully leading up to a station) is a perfect chance for a diorama to give guests a rich taste of the land's concept and flavor. A narrator could say something like:

"As we venture into this shadowy realm of the Magic Kingdom, we drift off to a land of our fantastical fears and wild imagination. What if the scoundrels, villains, and rogues of enchanting tales had a place to call their own, where they could hatch their dark and devious plans together, shrouded away from the light of goodness and fairness. Do you dare disembark and explore these dark dreams? If so, try to keep your eyes wide for dangers, and don't fall too deep into the sinister slumber of Villain's Land that you don't wake it out."

This, for example, spins the land as a "what-if dream" and not compromising the story cannon of any individual IP. But it's a conceptual backstory and difficult to express through the physical design of the land. That is, it's not easy to come up with architectural, rockwork, or landscaping cues that say "this is all a dream."

A diorama, with special projection effects, along with narration allows that story to be told easier. Using similar techniques to the slightly psychedelic Heffalumps and Woozles scene in the Pooh attraction, the idea that we are falling asleep and having a scary dream could be created in this diorama. We could roll from Frontierland into a forest and in the diorama what initially look like a continuation of forest trees could start to transform into spooky trees right before our eyes...suggesting our "nightmare" is taking over. This would all have to be done at an all-ages level, but enough can be done to tell the story.
 

BlindChow

Well-Known Member
...Villains Land [is] still a tough concept creatively to bring all the villains together in one realm and rationalize it story-wise. Sure, they can just lean on tropes and motifs and aesthetic design and hand-wave away any need to explain what the place is supposed to be and why it exists, but it will be stronger -- and it's in Imagineering's tradition -- to have a backstory.
I'm really not sure a backstory is necessary, and trying to over-write one to fit the land might actually be a detriment.

Much like the other "lands" don't need an overarching reason for the rides to coexist (Fantasyland, Tomorrowland, etc.), I wouldn't think Villains would need one either. Just referring to it as a "Dark Fantasyland" would be all the explanation guests would require and wouldn't unnecessarily force the Imagineers to shoehorn an extraneous and overwrought "backstory" into each ride in order to tie them together.

(Wouldn't surprise me if Disney tried to do just that, however...)
 

DrStarlander

Well-Known Member
I'm really not sure a backstory is necessary, and trying to over-write one to fit the land might actually be a detriment.

Much like the other "lands" don't need an overarching reason for the rides to coexist (Fantasyland, Tomorrowland, etc.), I wouldn't think Villains would need one either. Just referring to it as a "Dark Fantasyland" would be all the explanation guests would require and wouldn't unnecessarily force the Imagineers to shoehorn an extraneous and overwrought "backstory" into each ride in order to tie them together.

(Wouldn't surprise me if Disney tried to do just that, however...)
I absolutely get your point, and that's what they may do. But I'm not sure the genre approach (Fantasyland, Tomorrowland) is where modern era theme parks and theme park designers are. For one thing, building theme parks is a much more corporate project than it was in earlier eras. When a company is spending a billion dollars and five or six years on a project, with hundreds of people involved, and several levels of executive that have to sign off, I'm not sure the genre alone provides enough guidance or inspiration to get consensus and make -- and "sell" -- thousands of creative choices.

Practically every detail -- every bench or light fixture or door or metal finish -- has to get approved by one or more levels of executives and be "explained" why it is the way it is. And if every one of the thousands of choices and ideas is just pitched as "you know, it's like Fantasyland, but we made it darker..." it leaves open a lot of wiggle room and debate. Over in one area, a designer make interpret "darker Fantasyland" as having spiderwebs in the iron lanterns and bench-arms evoking spider legs. That's darker, for sure. But another designer creating a shop may focus on "dark magic" and sinister wizardry. And many other directions could be justified, for everything. Could all this fit in a genre land? Yes, but by today's theme park standards it could feel like a billion-dollar Spirit Halloween store.

What's common in these projects is have a fleshed out, shared conceptual rationale to rally around (a story bible), so they can "spin" in the meeting and get everyone around the table saying "yeah, that's great!" because it delivers on the shared vision. A more specific concept provides more to point to in doing that spinning and justifying.

I don't think they went far enough with physical props to convey the Stark Industries/Avenger's Campus story, but they never could have gotten to creatively, or justified to the executives, all that old stained brick etc. without having the backstory.

The "dark dream" concept I described may be too esoteric, admittedly. I mention it because Disney is so particular about combining their characters/stories, and not disrupting canon. But I do think the land will have some backstory and rationale. Anyway, we will see.
 

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