PHOTOS - New monorail track spur nears completion

[bjlc57]

well while we all want the monorail to be expanded, the truth is that expansion chances are slim or none..

again, the Bean counters don't understand that the Mono rail IS A RIDE.. that it takes you to places YOU HAVEN"T been, and shows you sights that You can't see from the ground..

to them its a people moving device.. instead of an E TICKET..

to me it will always be the first E ticket of the day.. you used to see topiearies on the trip.. and the trip from Magic Kingdom to EPCOT.. man, that was worth the price of your admission right there..

see , that's what needs to be changed , the perspective that the mono rail is just an electric bus.. it is NOT.. IT is IT"S OWN RIDE..

 

[WDW Monorail]

well while we all want the monorail to be expanded, the truth is that expansion chances are slim or none..

again, the Bean counters don't understand that the Mono rail IS A RIDE.. that it takes you to places YOU HAVEN"T been, and shows you sights that You can't see from the ground..

to them its a people moving device.. instead of an E TICKET..

to me it will always be the first E ticket of the day.. you used to see topiearies on the trip.. and the trip from Magic Kingdom to EPCOT.. man, that was worth the price of your admission right there..

see , that's what needs to be changed , the perspective that the mono rail is just an electric bus.. it is NOT.. IT is IT"S OWN RIDE..

I will respectfully disagree with that. The NTSB does not see it as a ride.

 

[MaryJaneP]

I will have to agree that Monorail makes me FEEL like it is a ride, maybe not E ticket, regardless of what NTSB says. It would be hard to imagine going to WDW and never RIDING the monorail, even though alternate transportation opportunities exist.

 

[maxairmike]

I originally posted this over in the "Every city needs a monorail" thread, but I think as far as discussing the monorail and expansions, this can be equally applicable in this thread.

Anyway, I am a bit of a monorail nut, and after doing some quick forum searching on previous monorail discussions and thinking about this particular one, there are a few things that it seems many are forgetting (or at least not mentioning) when it comes to monorails at Disney in particular.

Everyone here is probably aware that Disney - through legislative manipulation - is for all simplistic intents and purposes, its own city/county entity via its governmental arm, the Reedy Creek Improvement District. Which leads me to a point I think a lot of people overlook when discussing transportation issues, specifically about monorail/bus system expansions and improvements. Because of their governmental designation, funding for many issues/improvements actually comes from the trading of government bonds, and Reedy Creek is also able to apply for (and several times in the past has won) federal and state grant money for transportation, housing, etc. This is how the Osceola Parkway/I-4 interchange was funded, how Celebration was started, and in fact, is how the whole operation got off the ground in the first place.

All of this is to say that, if RCID (through Disney) were not worried about ruffling governmental feathers again, it is entirely possible that given the right conditions, funding for transportation projects can be had in no small amounts. The only major thing holding them back now is that the cat has long been out of the bag that Disney (neither Walt nor the company, sorry to spoil the cheery outlook some have on the original project) never truly intended for the Florida Project to be a true city in the sense of a revolutionary Orlando or Tampa, and as such, applications for public funds would fall under intense scrutiny and criticism.

If you would like a more in-depth look at the city planning aspect of the Florida Project and things such as governmental relations with Orange and Osceola Counties, "Married to the Mouse" is a marvelous book. Be forewarned, though; if you wish to maintain the magic about certain parts of the Florida Project (such that it was ever truly intended to be a city in any real sense of the word), it may not be an enjoyable book. It is, however, highly informative and will allow you to look at some of the resort expansions in a new way.

I know that this spur line is far from signaling a major expansion, but it seems the discussion for a full-fledged expansion has reared its head, which is why I brought the above over here.

As far as the spur expansion itself, I kind of see it as "pull over" section along highways. However, I am surprised that they have not really created a true "pull over" spur, especially for the EPCOT line. Instead of having a spur just large enough for the towing/maintenance tractor, have a train-length spur so that in cases of breakdown, instead of disrupting two lines, only the EPCOT line is affected by putting it on that spur unless it requires return to the shop to get it operational...which brings up another question, but I think I answered that myself (why no spur from the maintenance track to the EPCOT line).

 

[bjlc57]

the NTSB can call it anything it wants.

to the Disney patrons its the first E ticket ride to the park.. its not short and sweet.. but over the years took me to places where I will probably never stay.. show me sights of Disney that you only can see from an elevated position..

the topeiries.. that used to line the lawns.. the music.. the words on the intercom.. its all enough to make the hair raise off your arm.. it tells you , YOU ARE HERE.. or sadly, you are leaving, not knowing when you will return.

so be a bean counter and quote the NTSB..

I want to quote my heart and say that the Monorail is the initial E Ticket ride and it brings you home , or sadly sends you on your way to your house..

 

[Scuttle]

We noticed the spur as we drove back toward EPCOT following dinner at California Grill on Wednesday night. We actually turned around at Wilderness Lodge so we could drive by a few more times, just so I could see it what I thought was the spur was in fact the spur. For some reason, I was really excited at the idea of 62 new feet. 1971, 1982, and 2011... I would LOVE to add more years to that list.

The new work tractor spur is indeed at the existing switch. The track itself has no electrical lines for monorail power (at least, it didn't look like it did)...so it isn't exactly what you would need to perform a for-real expansion of the system, but I would be very interested in finding out how difficult and expensive it was to add the new 62 feet. Who did the beam construction? Does it have the same foam core as the EPCOT/Las Vegas beams? Heck, is it the same exact construction as the Las Vegas beams? Not that monorail track is cheap, but if cared for properly, it can last for a long, long time.

But, then you have to have the conversation about acquiring more monorails. The existing 11 would be spread way too thin. Even when #12 comes back online, it would be spread too thin with an expansion. It took forever to get from EPCOT to the TTC on Thursday. They need that 12th train back in service.

The wait from epcot to ttc did not have anything to do with not having the 12th train in service it had to with how many monorails were running on the epcot beam 3 or 4. They never have more than 4 on the epcot beam at once.

 

[Scuttle]

Nobody has mentioned about the fire evacuation on the monorail. Read the procedures they are crazy and if you are in a wheelchair forget it. Your suppose to get out of the roof climb down the front of the monorail to the beam or into another section of the monorail. It is this sole reason I think the monorail will never be expanded. Just as there will never be any more none ADA compliant rides built ever again.

 

[flavious27]

Nice diagram, but for PRT to work most efficiently, many of those loops need to be eliminated/changed. A vehicle needs to be able to get to where it's going in as close to a straight line as possible.

In your example, a vehicle going from Epcot to French Quarter would have to traverse the entire loop through Old Key West, TL, Downtown Disney, SSR and way up around to Riverside before finally making it to French Quarter.

Although I haven't done extensive research into it, my understanding of PRT systems are that it works best when there are many routes and loops built into the system. That way each car (and the overall system) can choose the most-efficient route from Point A to Point B.

Plus, when there there's more than one way to get between points, it allows the system flexibility to re-route traffic around a broken-down vehicle. Sure, it won't be as fast for some riders, but it keeps the system from grinding to a halt.

The system you designed is closer to a Peoplemover system than a PRT system.

One of these days I'll sit down and draw out how I envision the two most-feasible transportation options to be... One is PRT based, the other is based off of Walt's original Monorail/Peoplemover combo vision.

-Rob

I whipped up the design of the prt off of an earlier design I had for an expanded monorail system.

The best way to improve the lines would be to have the ak line mostly run down world dr to the all stars, then have a spurs for cs and bb, and also ak and akl. The DHS line would better interconnect to itself. The only problem I see is a computer glitch that won't stop prt trains from running into each other.

 

[flavious27]

Since we're on the subject of the expansion, here are a few of my thoughts.
If the monorail was to be expanded, the TTC could also be expanded as a central hub. The current EPCOT beam could be expanded to include stops at the EPCOT resort area and Hollywood Studios. The Magic Kingdom beams would be left alone. A fourth beam could service Animal Kingdom and the Animal Kingdom Lodge. The fifth beam could handle the water parks, the value resorts and Downtown Disney.

I see any monorai expansion needing a centralized TTC, it would bring down the amount of stops. It will be a complex structure with atleast 2 or maybe 3 lines connecting in one location.

 

[flavious27]

A trip from CSR to MK with all of those stops and transfers would take forever. (assuming travel is counter clockwise) I love riding on the monorail, but rail style systems are extremely inefficient in transporting people to spread out locations like all the resorts and parks at WDW, however they are very efficient at moving people between 2 differant locations like TTC and MK (until something breaksdown). Busses are smelly and mostly themeless but are very good at being able to change routes and quantity of them at a moments notice. I cannot even imagine what would happen with an entirely rail style system at WDW around the holiday's at park closing.

PRTs don't work the same way as a rail system.

This is why a station would be connected to the line:

The vehicles would be parked this way:

 

[Mongomil]

Sorry but this talk of Monorail expansion is kinda silly. Its simple these days. If management can not make money on it dont expect it. Well I guess if you put a gift shop or DVC rep on each train then they might.

 

[PhilharMagician]

well while we all want the monorail to be expanded, the truth is that expansion chances are slim or none..

again, the Bean counters don't understand that the Mono rail IS A RIDE.. that it takes you to places YOU HAVEN"T been, and shows you sights that You can't see from the ground..

to them its a people moving device.. instead of an E TICKET..

to me it will always be the first E ticket of the day.. you used to see topiearies on the trip.. and the trip from Magic Kingdom to EPCOT.. man, that was worth the price of your admission right there..

see , that's what needs to be changed , the perspective that the mono rail is just an electric bus.. it is NOT.. IT is IT"S OWN RIDE..

Well if the monorail is truely a ride as you say then if I were a bean counter I would never expand them ever! Rides cost money to maintain and are there to entertain guests. The only place a ride belongs is behind a gate where an admission can be charged to pay for it's maintenance and operational costs.

In WDW the monorail is definately a people moving (transportation) device. It is not an E-ticket. At WDW if you are located at any one of the MK resorts you have to rely on the monorail to get to Epcot. There is no other mode of transportation available to get there. DL is a much differant situation. There, it is only a park ride and you can tell by it's much smaller size and it has no real destination other than looping the park.

PRTs don't work the same way as a rail system.

This is why a station would be connected to the line:

The vehicles would be parked this way:

Ok, How fast do they move? The distance between AKL and Epcot is over 6.5 miles as the bus travels. You also now have a connection to get to Epcot which will take time.

What is thew cost of these little minature electric busses?

Do they run on ground level roadways or elevated?

What are there capacity?

 

[Glasgow]

Wonder if this monorail expansion is meant to compete with Harry Potter ..

 

[MansionGoer13z]

I love the monorail and wish for an expansion, but I doubt it will happen due to the cost of reaching every park and hotel. They could use PRTs instead as a way to efficiently transport guests around the parks.

I have made a map of proposed routes that could be used:

This is a mockup I made for a disney one, though the vehicles can look different and be larger.

The only problems that will arise will be when the paths of a prt need to cross over a road. It will be cheaper to have the paths a prt uses to be mostly at ground level. So an elevated track would need to be built when a prt pathway needs to cross a road.

Just looking at these things make feel clausterphobic and a bit queasy.

 

[Pioneer Hall]

Sorry but this talk of Monorail expansion is kinda silly. Its simple these days. If management can not make money on it dont expect it. Well I guess if you put a gift shop or DVC rep on each train then they might.

It isn't even about making money, it really is just about doing something practical. Monorails are insanely exensive and there is really no business model that would make an expansion anything more than just a money vaccuum. This isn't exclusive to Disney either, which is why you don't see every major city with a monorail system. Las Vegas tried it, and it is a disaster. No one rides the monorail because they had to charge a lot in order to just keep up with the costs of maintaining it. It was forced into bankruptcy last year because people are still taking cabs to get where they need to go. Then take the entire scenario of a breakdown or power outage crippling the system at any given time and you have even more to worry about. Buses might not be magical, but they are practical and offer the most efficient transportation for an area the size of WDW. I don't blame Disney one bit for continuing to use them.

We see a lot of threads like this come up on the forums. However, I never really see a reason besides for aesthetics that people ever want to change the transportation system. Monorails and Peoplemovers would look a lot cooler and would probably be more fun than a bus, but I would rather the hundreds of millions of dollars it might take for that be used in the parks where I spend the majority of my time.

 

[jakeman]

But North Havenbrook and Brockway have them...

 

[JungleTrekFan]

Ok, How fast do they move? The distance between AKL and Epcot is over 6.5 miles as the bus travels. You also now have a connection to get to Epcot which will take time.

What is thew cost of these little minature electric busses?

Do they run on ground level roadways or elevated?

What are there capacity?

1. The PRT at Heathrow runs about 12mph, but it and the Masdar PRT say they can reach up to 25 mph

2. Depends on the type of PRT. Heathrow's are smart car dumb track, where the vehicles have all the control and a battery to power it all and the guideway is just like a sidewalk. Masdar's is the opposite, the technology is all in the guideway, so the vehicle is less expensive. But this kind of trasportation is said to one of the least expensive to build and operate.

3. PRT can run on both.

4. Both Madar's and Heathrow's can fit 4 people with room for a bag or two of luggage in the middle of the car.

 

[Theresonly1]

Well, it hasn't been officially announced yet. But a bus driver told me the new monorail line will finally connect WDW to my house. :sohappy:

Awesome...can I move in with you when its done??:lol:

 

[flavious27]

Just looking at these things make feel clausterphobic and a bit queasy.

Well they could add more glass.

 

[flavious27]

1. The PRT at Heathrow runs about 12mph, but it and the Masdar PRT say they can reach up to 25 mph

It is mentioned that prts can go between 25 and 40 mph. If disney could have their prt models maintain that speed while fitting 6 - 8 people, it would be an ideal option to compliment existing options.