Philharmagic on The Way Out?

Timothy_Q

Well-Known Member
o_O .... The brief sections I remember from The Little Mermaid ride were 2D animation that was representing a silhouette. You're comparing two separate styles and formats. As for the money discussion. Everything has a number and a budget. While PhilharMagic was under Eisner, who didn't have a problem spending money at times, it was also during a travel downturn. The largest thing that Disney did in the early 2000s was Mission Space at $150 million. POP century never got finished and was abandoned, other projects were put on hold.

So our argument came from you saying that CGI looks different then PhilharMagic, yet the attraction is entirely CGI. If they wanted to add new content to the show they could create it to fit the current look. I'm saying is that to me the current animation looks dated compared to newer shows. I believe it could be redone better but still keeping a stylized look.

Yes we both agree on them having the ability to update philhamagic, for sure.

My point is just: CGI style for philharmagic (and ariel's ride) was chosen for style, not constricted by time / money.

But like I said before, we can agree to disagree and move on

 

AndrewsJ

Well-Known Member
One thing to take into account is budget between a ride and a feature film. Monsters Inc. cost about $26k per second and Nemo cost about $21k per second of film. This ride came after the downturn because of September 11th, and while I don't know it's full budget I can't see it being that big for this attraction.

I can get into technical knowledge of 3D animation from having worked in that industry. To sum it up lighting and rendering, and fur are two separate things. Fur was a dynamic simulation that taxed PIXAR's render farms. Roz and Boo were the only other characters that I can remember that used hair and Roz's was static.

Going back and looking at scenes from Monsters Inc. and Toy Story 2, they lack some of the finer details and dynamic lighting that is shown in current 3D films. This leads to just flatter imagery in general.
It's a show not a ride.
 

AndrewsJ

Well-Known Member
Yes we both agree on them having the ability to update philhamagic, for sure.

My point is just: CGI style for philharmagic (and ariel's ride) was chosen for style, not constricted by time / money.

But like I said before, we can agree to disagree and move on


Tha animation in Ariel's ride was replaced to look more like the traditional animation from the film.
 

jt04

Well-Known Member
The IP does not fit within the FLE with any sense of placesetting/story. That holds for all of the fab 5.

If they end up building a WDAS section at DHS then it would be perfect. IMO.

MSUSA might also work in the old TWDS theater. Rebuilt of course.
 

Bairstow

Well-Known Member
It's a good show but being that it's based on older IPs (BATB, Little Mermaid, Peter Pan, Lion King, Alladin), it's bound to be updated at some point

At Some Point, sure, but I wouldn't hold my breath.
None of those films were new when the attraction opened, and between recent live action remakes breaking records (Beauty and the Beast), successful kids TV shows and new auditoriums for existing shows (Lion King) and new, multi-million dollar attraction and resort investments (Little Mermaid, right around the mine from Philaharmagic) Disney seems to be tripling-down on these properties and I wouldn't expect them to go anywhere anytime soon.

I agree wit @CJR : It would be great if Disney were to animate and up-convert enough segments that Philharmagic could run a randomized set of sequences, like Star Tours, but I don't see Disney investing the money to make this happen, particularly when it would be hard to spin this sort of plussing in a way that could drive a New Attraction ad campaign and drive attendance.

What would be really nice is a preshow of some kind.
 
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Mickey5150

Well-Known Member
The problem with it has always been repeatability, as it has been with all the 3D shows and a good chunk of guests are repeat visitors. I haven't been in Philharmagic in a long time because it's one of those things where you can only do it every so often and it's been overdone, but it would be a shame to see Disney give up on the concept.

So much potential given today's ability to randomize sequences. If they added elements from new films, which I also think it could be done quite cheap, since all the newer films are already in CGI compared to the original version, I think it might generate real crowds again. It'd be nice to see something happen with it, because it's the best 3D show Disney's done, IMHO.
Besides Star Tours and Kilimanjaro Safaris what attractions are different each time? Heck, even Magical Express shows the exact same video each time. If repeatability was an issue then the parks wouldn't exist.
 

Chef Mickey

Well-Known Member
Besides Star Tours and Kilimanjaro Safaris what attractions are different each time? Heck, even Magical Express shows the exact same video each time. If repeatability was an issue then the parks wouldn't exist.
Agreed, but I think a movie is slightly less repeatable than a physical experience like a traditional ride.

This was a concern I outlined for Flight of Passage because it's still essentially a movie with very little physical movement.
 

fireworksandfairytales

Well-Known Member
In the Parks
No
PhilharMagic has been one of my favorite attractions since it opened and I would be very sad to see it go. That being said, I agree wholeheartedly with those of you who would like to see randomized sequences for this attraction. It would be such a great way to integrate newer films with the classics and even potentially give representation to films/characters that don't get much attention otherwise. I don't necessarily think it's ever actually going to happen, but I would be thrilled if it did. :)
 

Yert3

Well-Known Member
I don't know if it's just my eyes, but the 3D hasn't worked in years. I put on the glasses but it just looks like a regular 2D movie. I see 3D on every other attraction that uses it though.
 

Brad Bishop

Well-Known Member
If the film is indeed blurry, I find this interesting because Muppet*Vision is looking crisper than ever, and that attraction is almost ten years older than Philharmagic.

They probably just need someone to go up there and clean and refocus the lenses. Why they don't do this on a more periodic basis I don't know. There's a similar problem with the new animatronics and their faces being projected. Buzz Lightyear looked horrible for a few years just because it was out of focus.

How hard can it be to send someone up to focus/clean things? It really shouldn't have to wait for a refurb.
 

CJR

Well-Known Member
The styles don't match though.

The CGI animated movies are super detailed and realistic, while philharmagic has a clean cartoony look to match the flat colors of the 2D animations

Interesting question here, do you think they need to match? Here's why I ask: you are being transported into those worlds. Although I think they need to be done in a manner where they flow well together, Donald is in that place. The cartoony look works because it simulates the look of that world.

They would have to reanimate the sequences anyway, to work Donald in there and have interaction. What I'm saying is they wouldn't have the challenges of say, converting Lumiere from 2D to CGI, because the characters and their environments are already three dimensional. That saves a great deal of time (and probably money) as the 2D to CGI process is probably very difficult to master.

So, taking reanimation into account, they could probably tweak the style to match a bit more, but wouldn't need to spend as much time on actual development, if that makes sense because the worlds already exist in a CGI format. They could actually make them flow well into the existing show and I doubt most people would take notice to any differences. I mean there's some very big differences in the show already, from the animated counterparts, so it probably wouldn't be a big deal for most fans of whatever film they were to add.


Agreed, but I think a movie is slightly less repeatable than a physical experience like a traditional ride.

This. Go back to the 90's and early 2000's, the 3D attractions were very popular, even older ones. What happened is 3D had a resurgence at the box office and it also made its way into many living rooms.

The physical experience sets things apart and makes them more repeatable to the average guest. That's why even film based attractions like Soarin are still popular. If it was the same film in a regular theater, it'd probably draw numbers lower than Circle of Life.

To note, these attractions do pull in plenty of guests, they just have a very solid capacity. Most people always say great things about Philarmagic and Muppet Vision. If they haven't seen them in a while, their reason is something similar to "I've just seen it too many times", but they still love the show. I've met people who won't ride Pirates for that reason too, "been there, done that", but it's just not as common.

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My overall point is, these attractions are still popular with most guests and very well loved. Rather than a replacement, I hope they are given a very solid update when the time comes to put money into these spaces. I'd love for the attraction to have randomized sequences, but if they decide it's too costly or don't even entertain the idea, a new film would still get me back into the space at least temporarily. I just hope if they tweak the show, it still has heart.
 

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