Perks being reduced for some CMs

[French Quarter]

"No business which depends for existence on paying less than living wages to its workers has any right to continue in this country." - FDR

I agree that everyone should make a living wage. I feel passionately about that. However, that is something that needs to be changed at the governmental level. You can't expect companies are going to choose to pay more...although the ones that do should be applauded.

That being said, the wage Disney employees are paid isn't really the thread topic. We are talking about perks, which is a different topic.

 

[rucifee]

I don't want to dive into the minimum wage argument, but low-wage jobs are not supposed to be anyone's career. $8.50 is absolutely a "living wage" if you're a teenager who just needs to fill the gas tank or college student working for beer money. If Disney (and McDonald's and Walmart and everyone else) starting paying every worker the equivilant of a "living wage" for a dad with three kids and a mortgage, no teenager or low-skilled worker would ever get a job again because they'd be priced out of the market. Look at unemployment in inner cities where minimum wages are high. Low-wage jobs exist so that first-time workers learn to show up on time, do a job with a smile on their face, get along with different types of people, and build skills so that they can move on to those living wage jobs you talk about. It's like playing minor league baseball. Nobody wants to be in the minor leagues forever, but you put in your time so that eventually you can make the majors.

You can't even afford a studio apartment on $8.50 an hour, much less eat. After taxes, you're talking a gallon of milk and a candy bar per hour of labor at best. I don't know what reality you live in, but I'm guessing you haven't had to live on a low income for a while, or you're retired and no longer grasp cost of living.

 

[rucifee]

I agree that everyone should make a living wage. I feel passionately about that. However, that is something that needs to be changed at the governmental level. You can't expect companies are going to choose to pay more...although the ones that do should be applauded.

That being said, the wage Disney employees are paid isn't really the thread topic. We are talking about perks, which is a different topic.

The government shouldn't have to, it's sad that they do. You can and should consider perks as part of your employment contract to a degree, as they advertise the perks to hook you into the position.

 

[Andrew C]

Now we're talking about different issues. If you want to argue that mid-level operations management at WDW does a poor job of creating a trusting and empowering work environment, I'm right there with you. If you want to argue that Disney does a poor job of recognizing top performers and keeping them engaged and satisfied, I agree 100%. But I don't think that has anything to do with the "base" perks given to even the worst cast members.

I can agree with this....

 

[CaptainAmerica]

You can't even afford a studio apartment on $8.50 an hour, much less eat.

You absolutely can. I lived in a studio apartment (a crappy one) for $440 a month for two years. I made $9.00 an hour part time while a full-time student. The point is, you shouldn't be earning $8.50 an hour if you're at a point in your life where you're on your own and need an apartment in the first place. I earned $8.75 at a McDonald's when I was in high school and high-school-me wasn't anything special. Unless we're talking about legitimate physical or mental disability, every single adult in this country should be able to earn AT LEAST as much as high-school-me. Also, if you have a positive attitude and two brain cells to rub together, you can make a manager position in an environment like that in no time. When most of the workers are bums and/or drug abusers and/or dropouts, it doesn't take much to stand out (yes, I'm talking more about the generic low-wage job here than Disney specifically).

After taxes, you're talking a gallon of milk and a candy bar per hour of labor at best.

Nobody earning that little is paying any taxes.

 

[rucifee]

You absolutely can. I lived in a studio apartment (a crappy one) for $440 a month for two years. I made $9.00 an hour part time while a full-time student. The point is, you shouldn't be earning $8.50 an hour if you're at a point in your life where you're on your own and need an apartment in the first place. I earned $8.75 at a McDonald's when I was in high school and high-school-me wasn't anything special. Unless we're talking about legitimate physical or mental disability, every single adult in this country should be able to earn AT LEAST as much as high-school-me. Also, if you have a positive attitude and two brain cells to rub together, you can make a manager position in an environment like that in no time. When most of the workers are bums and/or drug abusers and/or dropouts, it doesn't take much to stand out (yes, I'm talking more about the generic low-wage job here than Disney specifically).


Nobody earning that little is paying any taxes.

You've missed my point, when did you do all of that? I'm sure it wasn't in the last 20 years, and things have changed quite a bit since then. People earning $8.50 still have federal, social security, and medicare taxes deducted from their checks. Tell me where you can live in 2015 in Orlando on $8.50 an hour after standard deductions.

I'll be waiting.

 

[raven]

I agree that there should be increased incentive for those who go above and beyond, but those opportunities should be tangible development and career advancement, not piddly Christmas merchandise discounts.

Disney has had a long history of hiring people who are huge fans of the company because they know these employees will spend part of their pay checks buying things from them. That holiday discount is a HUGE perk for CMs.

 

[French Quarter]

The government shouldn't have to, it's sad that they do. You can and should consider perks as part of your employment contract to a degree, as they advertise the perks to hook you into the position.

I highly doubt they promised CMs a specific Christmas present every year for the rest of time. That is what I was talking about.

However, yes, if you are promised other perks, you should have them included in your contract. If you do not, they are not guarenteed.

I'm from a different country. Is it not up to the government to establish and enforce minimum wage rates in the U.S.? Perhaps they shouldn't have to. It would be lovely if companies were generous and altruistic. Seeing as they aren't though, shouldn't the government work to fix the problem?

 

[Andrew C]

I'm from a different country. Is it not up to the government to establish and enforce minimum wage rates in the U.S.?

There is a federal minimum wage but states can also set their own, higher minimum wages. I believe in Florida, the minimum wage is $8.05 per hour.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

You've missed my point, when did you do all of that? I'm sure it wasn't in the last 20 years, and things have changed quite a bit since then.

I was an undergraduate from 2007-2011. I lived on campus for two years and then my apartment scenario was 2009-2011. So not 20+ years ago. About five years ago.

People earning $8.50 still have federal, social security, and medicare taxes deducted from their checks. Tell me where you can live in 2015 in Orlando on $8.50 an hour after standard deductions.

Nobody has to live in Orlando. If the rental market is too high (and it is, I know that from when I lived in Orlando for three years), you're free to move to an area with cheaper COL.

Disney has had a long history of hiring people who are huge fans of the company because they know these employees will spend part of their pay checks buying things from them. That holiday discount is a HUGE perk for CMs.

Absolutely true, but I put that blame on the CM, not on Disney. I've been in Cast Connection with CM friends and watched people who you know don't make a lot of money spending their whole paycheck on broken Disney crap out of sheer compulsion. I'm convinced that Disneyism is a mental disorder.

 

[French Quarter]

You've missed my point, when did you do all of that? I'm sure it wasn't in the last 20 years, and things have changed quite a bit since then. People earning $8.50 still have federal, social security, and medicare taxes deducted from their checks. Tell me where you can live in 2015 in Orlando on $8.50 an hour after standard deductions.

I'll be waiting.

I don't agree with the poster that says people shouldn't have these jobs unless they are students, etc. However, the point about taxes is correct, no? Yes, they have those things taken off their pay cheques but don't they typically receive a refund when they file their income taxes? It's an honest question.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

I don't agree with the poster that says people shouldn't have these jobs unless they are students, etc. However, the point about taxes is correct, no? Yes, they have those things taken off their pay cheques but don't they typically receive a refund when they file their income taxes? It's an honest question.

He's right about the payroll tax. Federal income taxes will be fully refunded and if they set up their W-4 correctly nothing should be deducted in the first place. But nobody escapes FICA (Social Security and Medicare) taxes. But if you think of Social Security as a trust fund (as it is supposed to function), that's not really a tax so much as the employee funding his/her own retirement.

 

[French Quarter]

There is a federal minimum wage but states can also set their own, higher minimum wages. I believe in Florida, the minimum wage is $8.05 per hour.

So it is up to the government to set this.

That seems very low to me. My province has the lowest wage in the country but it is still $10.30 an hour. However, our taxes are much higher, as is the cost of living. So maybe it evens out?

 

[French Quarter]

He's right about the payroll tax. Federal income taxes will be fully refunded and if they set up their W-4 correctly nothing should be deducted in the first place. But nobody escapes FICA (Social Security and Medicare) taxes. But if you think of Social Security as a trust fund (as it is supposed to function), that's not really a tax so much as the employee funding his/her own retirement.

Ok. Maybe it's a difference in language. We don't refer to FICA as taxes but directed deductions. i was meaning income taxes.

 

[rucifee]

I was an undergraduate from 2007-2011. I lived on campus for two years and then my apartment scenario was 2009-2011. So not 20+ years ago. About five years ago.

Were you in Orlando? I imagine it's possible to live on less in other places, but this thread is about CMs who live in and around Orlando. The cost of living has changed significantly in the last 5 years as well. I don't think you'll find a studio anywhere around here that's not in a "bad part of town" for less than $800/mo.

Nobody has to live in Orlando. If the rental market is too high (and it is, I know that from when I lived in Orlando for three years), you're free to move to an area with cheaper COL.

Sure, you're right they don't but then you have to factor in fuel costs, vehicle ownership (insurance, repairs) etc, still would be a struggle for a CM making $8.50. There are stories of CMs living in their cars because they can't afford to live here. That's a problem. Disney can solve this problem pretty easily, but they're too greedy to do that.

Disney putting more money in CMs pockets would help improve the whole Orlando economy.

Absolutely true, but I put that blame on the CM, not on Disney. I've been in Cast Connection with CM friends and watched people who you know don't make a lot of money spending their whole paycheck on broken Disney crap out of sheer compulsion. I'm convinced that Disneyism is a mental disorder.

I have to agree with you here, there's a difference between just getting by because of a low wage, and irresponsibility.

 

[rucifee]

I don't agree with the poster that says people shouldn't have these jobs unless they are students, etc. However, the point about taxes is correct, no? Yes, they have those things taken off their pay cheques but don't they typically receive a refund when they file their income taxes? It's an honest question.

Yes, some of their income does come back but they have to live without it for a year first.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Were you in Orlando? I imagine it's possible to live on less in other places, but this thread is about CMs who live in and around Orlando. The cost of living has changed significantly in the last 5 years as well. I don't think you'll find a studio anywhere around here that's not in a "bad part of town" for less than $800/mo.

Well yeah, if you only make $8.50 an hour, you're probably going to live in the "bad part of town." It is what it is.

Sure, you're right they don't but then you have to factor in fuel costs, vehicle ownership (insurance, repairs) etc, still would be a struggle for a CM making $8.50. There are stories of CMs living in their cars because they can't afford to live here.

I didn't mean "live far away and commute." I meant "if $8.50 is all you're ever going to earn as a Cast Member, it's probably time to consider a career change and maybe leave the area entirely." Whether you're a Cast Member or another low-wage worker, you need to have a contingency plan for your low income. You can A) accept poverty, B) rely on a spouse's income, C) pursue a promotion / advancement, D) pursue education, E) be retired and supplement your wages with retirement savings, etc. Of those options, I've done the first four. I've been a poor college student in a dump of an apartment while pursuing a degree (A and D), I've worked for low starting pay to prove my worth and advance (C), and I've earned a good salary so my wife could do low-income work that she was passionate about (B). It's a defeatist attitude to concede that "I'll never be more than an entry-level schlub so I demand a 'living wage' for my entry-level schlub position."

That's a problem. Disney can solve this problem pretty easily, but they're too greedy to do that.

Disney putting more money in CMs pockets would help improve the whole Orlando economy.

Nope. There's a thing called externalities, which are unintended economic consequences. Higher cast member wages would provide a very short-term boost. But those $800 studio apartments would quickly see demand rise due to the extra income of the renting population. That $800 studio apartment would now cost $1,000. The tourism market would keep prices in check for food and entertainment so inflation wouldn't look that bad on paper, but the cost of housing would skyrocket. The Cast Members who were making $8.50 would be making $12.00 or whatever, but they'd still be "just as poor" in terms of purchasing power. This is actually a way in which the scope of Disney's workforce actually makes Disney less powerful to help their employees, because they're positioned in a way that their actions can cause wide-reaching economic changes in the area.

 

[rael ramone]

I've posted this in other threads:

While what the CM does is a service job, it's job that's expected to provide Premium Service. And this Premium Service is priced into everything us parkgoers spend money on - tickets, food, merch, rooms, etc. It's implied that part of the money we spend there goes towards the Premium Service that one expects when spending a price premium...

When the cast member provides a level of service that, instead of being the Premium Service we as guests paid for, provide a lower level of service that's in line with the lower level of compensation that CM's receive, then *WE* as guests are being ripped off, NOT by the CM's, but by $DIS.

The part of what we pay for premium service should go towards those who provide the premium service, not redirect a big chunk of it towards their precious buybacks and try to make up for ESPN losing subscriptions...

And 'perks' may not show up on a tax form, but are definitely a part of compensation.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

I've posted this in other threads:

While what the CM does is a service job, it's job that's expected to provide Premium Service. And this Premium Service is priced into everything us parkgoers spend money on - tickets, food, merch, rooms, etc. It's implied that part of the money we spend there goes towards the Premium Service that one expects when spending a price premium...

When the cast member provides a level of service that, instead of being the Premium Service we as guests paid for, provide a lower level of service that's in line with the lower level of compensation that CM's receive, then *WE* as guests are being ripped off, NOT by the CM's, but by $DIS.

The part of what we pay for premium service should go towards those who provide the premium service, not redirect a big chunk of it towards their precious buybacks and try to make up for ESPN losing subscriptions...

And 'perks' may not show up on a tax form, but are definitely a part of compensation.

You're completely missing the point of why CM perks are being scaled back. This is NOT a cost-cutting measure, since it doesn't cost Disney money to let CMs in the parks for free. It actually makes Disney money because those CMs buy food, drink, and merch. Even with merch discounts, those sales are still profitable. Disney is actually VOLUNTARILY MISSING OUT ON REVENUE in order to provide the guest with a better experience. Specifically, smaller crowds. That's what everyone wants, right? Disney to stop nickel-and-dime cost cutting in the name of the guest experience?

 

[rucifee]

Well yeah, if you only make $8.50 an hour, you're probably going to live in the "bad part of town." It is what it is.

You realize that raising wages could reduce or possibly eliminate the "bad part of town" problem.

I didn't mean "live far away and commute." I meant "if $8.50 is all you're ever going to earn as a Cast Member, it's probably time to consider a career change and maybe leave the area entirely." Whether you're a Cast Member or another low-wage worker, you need to have a contingency plan for your low income. You can A) accept poverty, B) rely on a spouse's income, C) pursue a promotion / advancement, D) pursue education, E) be retired and supplement your wages with retirement savings, etc. Of those options, I've done the first four. I've been a poor college student in a dump of an apartment while pursuing a degree (A and D), I've worked for low starting pay to prove my worth and advance (C), and I've earned a good salary so my wife could do low-income work that she was passionate about (B). It's a defeatist attitude to concede that "I'll never be more than an entry-level schlub so I demand a 'living wage' for my entry-level schlub position."

In that case, there should be no cast members and the parks should fail. As you know, "A and B" should never be an option. We've all been there, we've all been poor living in a dump and trying to get out of it. It's an unnecessary struggle, one created by business and the government to keep people from being the best that they can be.

I don't think you realize you're devaluing yourself and everyone around you by arguing that people at the bottom shouldn't earn more and that their income shouldn't follow inflation and other cost of living increases. What you're effectively saying is that you're only worth what you currently earn and they're worth all that they currently earn.

If you make $15, and they make $8.50 an hour your indirect argument is that you are only worth $15 because they are only worth $8.50.

Nope. There's a thing called externalities, which are unintended economic consequences. Higher cast member wages would provide a very short-term boost. But those $800 studio apartments would quickly see demand rise due to the extra income of the renting population. That $800 studio apartment would now cost $1,000. The tourism market would keep prices in check for food and entertainment so inflation would look that bad on paper, but the cost of housing would skyrocket. The Cast Members who were making $8.50 would be making $12.00 or whatever, but they'd still be "just as poor" in terms of purchasing power. This is actually a way in which the scope of Disney's workforce actually makes Disney less powerful to help their employees, because they're positioned in a way that their actions can cause wide-reaching economic changes in the area.

You're making an assumption that apartments would cost more because people earn more but the fact of the matter is that rent is going up either way, but increases to income at the bottom and in the middle aren't. It's not a problem for me, but I can already see it as a problem for my kids. The gap is so large now that unless you come out of school as a high earner you can't make it anymore.

Unfortunately, we have a large population of people who don't get that arguing against raising income levels to a more reasonable basic livable level is hurting themselves as much as everyone else around them because it keeps their own wages down.