Perhaps Another Disney Park

Shaman

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
For weeks now, there has been alot of talk about Porject Gemini, and how money that was going to be used to build a 5th gate at WDW was going to be used for Gemini and some for Animal Kingdom. But lets recap for a second and take a look at Disney history, yeah History, but I'll make it entertaining.:hammer:
In Anaheim, Disneyland was the only park for a long time, then one day came DCA ( a park filled with clones, and many many shops and restaurants) and Disney thought that people would come to the DCA like they had to Disneyland, because of the DISNEY name. Since its opening somethings have changed in the park, but it still lacking in many areas.
In WDW, after EPCOT Center was built, Disney built the studios but basically in my humble opinion they built the studios to compete with the rumored Universal. For years that park like DCA lacked in value. Whats remarkable is that not too long after the studios, AK would be opened. Of coarse people can argue that the studios was a bit better than when it opened, and so AK was built.
The thing is, that in WDW we have what some would say a half finished park, Animal Kingdom (which is true, the park lacks a couple of attractions), and Epcot, which is growing older with each passing day. And yet all four WDW parks are at the top when it comes to attendence in Orlando (but the numbers are falling, but that COULD be because of economic reasons). So this leads me to think that perhaps, Mr. Eisner will not spend all that money on Epcot and keep the money for a 5th gate, another half finished park. That way when people finish seeing AK in half a day they can go over to the 5th gate and spend the other half instead of going to IOA for the full day:lol: .
In all seriousness though, when it comes to Disney you just don't know, and this whole Project Gemini, which I want most of it to go through will probably not happen, because Eisner won't spend all that money on one park (but hey even scrooge had a change of heart :lol: ).
Rumors are still out there that a Disney Seas type of park will go somewhere in the Epcot vicinity. Other rumors suggest that the money will go to help the other WDW parks, while some speculate the money will just dissapear:animwink: . History shows that lately Disney has a habit of opening half finished parks, could history repeat itself?????? Just trying to point out all the possibilities in the endless spectrum of ways Disney will show its current cheapness.:hammer:

If you were the person in charge at Disney and you had, lets say approx. 1 billion dollars (give or take a couple of million), what would you do with it??
 

netenyahoo

New Member
I think they should fix up Epcot and also add onto AK before any other park is made. AK should get Forbidden Mountain and a whole new land for Australia with Australian animals and a few cool new rides.
 

Katherine

Well-Known Member
Originally posted by netenyahoo
I think they should fix up Epcot and also add onto AK before any other park is made. AK should get Forbidden Mountain and a whole new land for Australia with Australian animals and a few cool new rides.

Completely agree! I would take the let over stuff and refurb,refurb, refurb!! Paint here, new strews there, clean ot the SM logs,ect.
 

disneydudette

Well-Known Member
I dunno how MGM was created....
but i do know that....it was being built and in the making when universal was in the process of setting up land...
basically...MGM came beofre universal...
the battle came in which one was going to open first...

if I had $1 billion

well...

I would build yet another park...
but not after giving a facelift to ALL wdw parks not just EPOCT and WDW....
then I would think...
then build 1 or 2 moderate resorts....maybe one in the EPCOT vicinity themed internationally...like with all the countries...
I then would create another waterpark...BB and TL just get way to crowded....

I think I maxed out...but I'll keep going...

then I would build a themed park...but with lots of thrills....
linda like IOA...but with a Disney twist...
the areas could be themed to diferent movies...or vilians...something very DISNEY like...more cartoony then fantasy....

thats it really...
then take wats left over and go to Beaches Turks and Caicos...
 

pan11435

New Member
Well the truth about Disney Studios is that it was originally a planned Epcot Pavillion long before Universal came. It is also fact that construction on the Disney-MGM Studios began before that of Universal and Disney Studios was the first to open. A few non-disney puplished books are out that clearly show how contrary to popular belief Universal pretty much came after the Disney studios was planned. While Universal was far better at opening today I think Disney Studios is far better than Universal Studios.
 

netenyahoo

New Member
I don't think any more resorts need to be built. Look at the empty Pop Century resort that is done, but not open. Waterparks are fun, but not a huge draw. I think the parks that need the help most are Epcot then AK. MK could use an Indiana Jones ride in Adventureland and the Studios could use an updated Star Tours movie. After these changes then start thinking of a 5th theme park.
 

Jammin2054Slamm

New Member
I would fix up EPCOT and AK first. Add a new land and some new attractions and move Jungle Cruise From MK to AK.Then I would Build attractions in more country pavilions at Epcot and add a new one like greece or rome. After that I would use it on MGM to ubdate GMR and ST and make a IJA ride, James Bond,and Monsters Inc. After that i would add a special effect show like Amogeddon from DLP to add to the end of the Studio Tour.Then if there is any extra money I would build a Interactive merine water park or a water park based on The Countrys.:sohappy:
 

Sorcerer Mickey

Well-Known Member
Seeing as how Eisner and friends are having troubles dealing with four parks, I highly doubt they'd spend money to deal with yet another theme park. If I were Eisner, I would put the 5th park on hold and concentrate on what's in my hand right now, rather than what I could put in my hand. Epcot and Animal Kingdom can't just be left there in their current shape. I'd go through with Project Gemini, and adding a E-ride attraction to Animal Kingdom(it would have to be high budget, though).

Remember, Disney has to be prepared when it comes to making a new park. Many customers expect a lot from the mouse.
 

pheneix

Well-Known Member
>>>Well the truth about Disney Studios is that it was originally a planned Epcot Pavillion long before Universal came.<<<

Actually, the Great Movie Ride with a few added exhibits about movies was planned for Epcot. An actual "studio" pavilion in the since of "this is how we make movies" really wasn't planned.

>>>A few non-disney puplished books are out that clearly show how contrary to popular belief Universal pretty much came after the Disney studios was planned.<<<

I really want to see those books, because that is 100% FALSE. Universal Studios Florida was really convieved in one form or another long before even Epcot opened (back then the line of thought was "movie studio" and not "studio/theme park"). Finally, in the early 80's MCA found the financial partners to make it happen, and the idea had shifted into a theme park with a movie studio attached to it rather than a studio with a theme park attached to it like in Hollywood (during this time frame Universal had expanded on the Studio tour in California with stunt shows and behind the scenes shows like Miami Vice and the Star Trek Experience. Yes, there was indeed a major Star Trek attraction long before Vegas, so it was technically a "theme park" before either of the two parks in Florida were built, even though it's first ride-through attraction did not open until 1992. That would of course be the ET Adventure, which coincidentally closes permanently this month in California).

Of course, Michael Eisner became the CEO of Disney, and he immediately had an ego-trip an determined that Disney could not stand for another major theme park in town, so Disney/MGM Studios was announced (a year or so after Universal Studios Florida was announced and had started construction) and rushed into completion in mid-1989.

Bottom line? It's beyond debate-- Disney stole the studio theme park idea from Universal-- plain and simple.
 

pheneix

Well-Known Member
Oh yes, if I had a $1 billion to work with, I would put back into the other 4 parks, no questions asked. The Magic Kingdom is not in that bad of shape, but the other three parks need serious work if they are to remain draws for the resort, Epcot and AK much more so than MGM.
 

Walter

Member
If I had $1 billion, I would make a very large park, put Horizons, JII, WoM, and all the like in it, and put more of the extinct rides in there when they become extinct.

And, on the other subject, I do believe that I once heard an imagineer say thet Disney had planned a movie-based pavillion for Epcot before Universal had the idea for a studio, but I may be wrong.
 

jcrb

New Member
Yeah Eisner want the movie-based pavilion to be between the imagination and land pavilion. In the Imagineering bock it shows concept art of the entrance.
 

CTXRover

Well-Known Member
Originally posted by pheneix
>>>
Bottom line? It's beyond debate-- Disney stole the studio theme park idea from Universal-- plain and simple.

I don't know if such a blatant assumption can be made without actually being in the Burbank offices and having access to all imagineer files. (If you have such access, I apologize.) I agree with the "assumption" that Disney gave the GREENLIGHT to actually build a Studios after hearing Universal announced their plans, but a concept based on movies had long been considered according to Imagineering books that are sold at the parks (and probably some bookstores). Imagineers found that their ideas for a movie pavilion at Epcot were so plentiful that they could be an entire park in itself. In other words, from what I THINK, imagineers didn't suddenly say "Let's design a movie-studio theme park" the day after Universal announced their plans (or when their plans were "leaked" out)
 

Hank Scorpio

New Member
If I had a billion....

I'd start with Epcot. Project Gemini sounds good on paper so probably something along those lines. Update SE, add a coaster and few other rides, then i'd add a decent ride to each of the world pavilions so they all had something to ride on and not just some shops and a 360 degree cinema. I think the space theme from MS could even be expanded, and turn Epcot into a futureistic international space station or something. The tree's could fit in here - as in hundreds of years to come we will probably have a space station with real trees on board. Then FW could really be the future (as we are probably at least 100 years off of this sort of thing) and change it's name to Future Showcase or something and WS could be a showcase of earth, so change the name to Earth Showcase. That would be cool, but i'm probably already over budget...

Next, AK would be updated but not too much. I actually really like the AK and don't think it needs changing, it just needs more. I'd kill that dinorama thingy as that just takes away from the park and i'd add a beastly kingdom, with dragons and dwarfs, elfs, trolls and orcs. You could have a Lord of the Rings type attraction right in there (but obiously not LOTR as its a moovie and more suited in Disney Studios if they had rights). The Rainforest Rollercoaster currently being plugged for Project Gemini would fit nicely into AK if they recreated a couple of acres exactly like a rainforest (complete with weather system!) and let you race around in dense jungle!

Next i'd move to the MK, and put Forbidden Mountain in here, probably in Adventure land. This then could become the area of the park themed after villians which I hear the ideas for crop up all the time. Also this would keep in with the mountain theme - as you'd have BTM, Splash Mountain, Space Moutain etc. And you could kind of have the magic on one side of the park with Fantasyland, and Toon Town Fair and of course the castle, and then right down in Adventureland have this dark, evil, forbidden mountain, constructed around a volanco or something. Of course not too evil - as the kids don't need to be scared that much!

Finally, MGM has turned into a nice park over the years so not a lot of work. Star Tours would get an welcome update, and the GMR would be updated too. I think MGM needs a water attraction of some kind - maybe a log flume ride?? Not sure what theming i'd give it mind, perhaps a james bond attraction. You could make it up to be all snowy like Blizzard Beach, and have you racing down mountains avoided averlanches etc.

Anyway - just my thoughts!!!
:slurp: :king:
 
If I had a billion dollars
I would buy you a green dress
(but not a real green dress, that's cruel)

Sorry, couldn't resist! Any other BNL fans out there? Speaking of which, does anyone have the BNL version of "Grim Grinning Ghosts?" I'm dying to hear it some time!


Gotta go with Pheneix on this one. Epcot needs tons of updating. AK needs more attractions. (But please no more cheap spinning rides!) I think MGM is in pretty good shape - I enjoy that park more than any other. And Magic Kingdom is obviously in good shape.
 

dox

New Member
My two cents...Given the current state of the economy, I doubt Disney will do anything other than continue to build up DVC units. I really haven't heard any rumors about a DisneySea Park though on my last trip alot of CMs commented how succesful that park has become. However, the rumors i heard on my last trip (8/02), that I would lend any amount of credence to, came from a disney tour guide on the keys to the kingdom tour. According to her, the rumors coming out of imagineering are: 1 - a disney villains theme park or 2- a disney villains themed land at MK or studios(given the sucess of fantasmic). As for the villains land at Mk plan, the problem is she claimed is that the company/imagineers do not want to build outside of the train tracks that encircle MK. Ridiculous idea i think. She did mention the roller coaster/forbidden mt. although not by that name. But she was unsure if it was to be built in fantasyland(wiht a villains theme) or at AK. The truth is of course, no one knows the truth. But hey i love rumors and gossip as much as everyone on this site with the exception of someone on this thread who just enjoys bashing.
That being said...if i had my choice I would definitely spend the money on Epcot (used to be my favorite park) and AK. MK is great, although i'm ed at the pooh ride. I saw a video on a website last night of the pooh ride in japan. Alot of fun and Amazing ride-car technology. The site had alot disney seas rides which seemed great, but I think a land dedicated to the seas at AK would be a good idea. But I bet if they do a 5th gate it will be a cross between disney sea and a villains idea.
 

Shaman

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Originally posted by dox
But I bet if they do a 5th gate it will be a cross between disney sea and a villains idea.

Personally I doubt that Disney would do an all villain park (eventhough it sounds like a cool idea). For one it sends the wrong message, cause last time I checked Disney doesn't glorify villains, and giving them a whole park...well that would just not fly to good with parents. I do however think that if Disney does a good v. evil park then maybe it would work better, I mean think about it you have two sections, much like Epcot one where all the good hero type characters (ex. Aladdin, Simba, Hercules, even Mickey, etc.) and then on the other you have all the villains (ex. Jafar, Scar, Ursula, Hook, etc.).:sohappy:

But the whole notion of a 5th gate seems unreasonable to the normal person, but as I orginally stated who knows what Disney will do. I do however believe that although there has been for a long time now rumors related to the villains, they will never get an entire park to themselves, if anything they'll get a section in either MK or the Studios. Remember although the villains make an important part in most Disney movies, the parks have to remain family friendly, parents don't want their kids idolizing villains (personally I think a couple of them are cool), but I'm talking from a parent's perspective. I know most out there say that alot of 21+ adults visit the parks, but lets not forget that the parks were meant to be for the whole family. Just a comment, on the whole villains thing, 5th gate or not, the villains will get a home somewhere in WDW.:hammer:
 

goofyfan13

Well-Known Member
I don't think Disney should even start clearing land for a new park until the other parks are refurbed. EPCOT is in major need of it, even though the park in my mind is still great, it is outdated and not many teens really want to go back (I do though!). I wouldn't say the world showcase would need it as much but it does need some touching up. Animal Kingdom needs another E-Ticket or two and a couple of shows and dark rides (or the like). Heck, AK needs another land like Australia or something. MK doesn't really need any touching. The Studios needs to replace the empty shows/buildings with some new sort of attraction. These are just my opinions. A new park really doesn't seem pheasable though when Disney is struggling to keep their numbers up in their theme parks, so why add another park and possibly (due to spreading guest around even more) decrease park attendance numbers? I don't know, I just don't see another theme park for a while.
 

boling

New Member
My thoughts about the negative impact of the economy on building a park.

1.) Parks take years to plan and build. Downturns in the economy happen from time to time, and if you start building only during good times, potentially when a park opens, it maybe during a bad down turn in the economy. :eek: Don't forget the big picture, not just the current or very near term. Even if they broke ground today, it would be 2+ years before anything big like a 5th park opened. I would be more worried about starting a new park at the peak (I know, we can't use hind sight) of a boom or growth of the economy, than starting it near or at a bottom.

2.) When is it cheaper to a.) borrow money, bonds, etc.. and b.) find labor to build a large park?? During a down turn. There are people desperate for jobs, a lot of highly skilled people at that, which would take on a job that may not pay as much as their previous jobs, just to have a job. Also, with rates so low, money is "cheaper" but it is a little harder to get access to funds. They don't need $$ for the land, and all costs of the project don't happen day 1, but are spread out across the life of the project.

3.) Continuing w/ #2, now is an easier time to find the hundres/thousands of people it would take to design/build a park.

Just my thoughts on the situation.
 

dox

New Member
Valid points. But as for the price of labor, i believe disney uses union labor and thus wages are fixed. And last time i checked union wages increase every year usually, due to collective bargaining agreements.

However, if the rumors about a Universal 3rd gate are true you can bet disney will open a 5th gate. And unfortunately as AK and MGM, it will be a half-______ job and park for the first few years. Remember when AK opened they didn't even have ASIA. I can't imagine being at that park with only africa and dinoland. thats nuts. I remember my former boss took his grandkid soon after ak opened and he told me how the crowds were so angry they had paid full price for half a park. Luckily i waited to go after asia opened and it was amuch more enjoyalbe experience. But even then and to this day park is way too small.
 

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