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Parks gone to the dogs...

Mander

Well-Known Member
All I know is last year I saw a Great Dane walking through mainstreet in Dinseyland. I also know many people claim their dog is a "service" or emotional pet so that they can bring it into a hotel that does not allow dogs, or to avoid paying the hotel pet fee. It's awful but these people are out there, I called a lady out last year and she said I have the vest, i laughed and said give me a day and 60 bucks and I can order on from amazon too.
Any breed can be a service dog. So seeing a Great Dane on Main Street tells you nothing.

People abuse the system, absolutely. That doesn't mean we need to automatically assume that every dog that doesn't fit the traditional service dog model is a fake. As Gabe1 said, there are service dogs for PTSD, Autism, and more. Seizure alert, diabetes alert- those are service dogs.

Emotional Support Animals are not Service Animals. They serve a different purpose and are only protected in housing and airlines. If someone is claiming an ESA to get into a Disney park, they should be turned away. I think the odds of you offending a person who legitimately has an ESA are slim to none, since they know what the regulations are. ESAs are easier to fake than Service Animals but it shouldn't be the issue it is since they are only allowed in two places.

Education of the general public would solve a lot of these issues. Giving people who you think are faking a hard time doesn't- especially when you are wrong.
 

Club Cooloholic

Well-Known Member
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Any breed can be a service dog. So seeing a Great Dane on Main Street tells you nothing.

People abuse the system, absolutely. That doesn't mean we need to automatically assume that every dog that doesn't fit the traditional service dog model is a fake. As Gabe1 said, there are service dogs for PTSD, Autism, and more. Seizure alert, diabetes alert- those are service dogs.

Emotional Support Animals are not Service Animals. They serve a different purpose and are only protected in housing and airlines. If someone is claiming an ESA to get into a Disney park, they should be turned away. I think the odds of you offending a person who legitimately has an ESA are slim to none, since they know what the regulations are. ESAs are easier to fake than Service Animals but it shouldn't be the issue it is since they are only allowed in two places.

Education of the general public would solve a lot of these issues. Giving people who you think are faking a hard time doesn't- especially when you are wrong.
I didn't say it didn't tell me anything, but a great dane emotional support pet is like driving down mainstreet in a golf cart and saying it's your EV transport
 

Club Cooloholic

Well-Known Member
I didn't say it didn't tell me anything, but a great dane emotional support pet is like driving down mainstreet in a golf cart and saying it's your EV transport
And honestly you can call people out on something, the couple i spoke to i actually overheard gloating about the money they saved on the hotel room. This law is being abused, one has to look at the intent of a law.
 

jaklgreen

Well-Known Member
Any breed can be a service dog. So seeing a Great Dane on Main Street tells you nothing.

People abuse the system, absolutely. That doesn't mean we need to automatically assume that every dog that doesn't fit the traditional service dog model is a fake. As Gabe1 said, there are service dogs for PTSD, Autism, and more. Seizure alert, diabetes alert- those are service dogs.

Emotional Support Animals are not Service Animals. They serve a different purpose and are only protected in housing and airlines. If someone is claiming an ESA to get into a Disney park, they should be turned away. I think the odds of you offending a person who legitimately has an ESA are slim to none, since they know what the regulations are. ESAs are easier to fake than Service Animals but it shouldn't be the issue it is since they are only allowed in two places.

Education of the general public would solve a lot of these issues. Giving people who you think are faking a hard time doesn't- especially when you are wrong.
I don't think anyone has any issues with animals used for PTSD, seizures, etc. As long as they are TRAINED animals. You could very well need an animal for your specific emotional need, but just bringing in your pet that has no training to be in these situations is what is causing the problems. I saw a young woman with her "support dog" at Walmart a few weeks ago in the produce isle. And it was clearly not trained because it was tugging on her leash trying to get to some kids. And before you say she could be training it, she ignored it and let it keep tugging on the leash while she picked out her produce. Cases like this is what bothers people.
 

Mander

Well-Known Member
I didn't say it didn't tell me anything, but a great dane emotional support pet is like driving down mainstreet in a golf cart and saying it's your EV transport
I guess my question is how do you know it was an ESA versus a service dog? Great Danes can be actual service dogs. ESAs are supposed to be anywhere but housing and airlines. If someone is claiming an ESA in another public place it is cause for some suspicion but unless the dog was entirely unruly it would be hard to know just by looking at them.
 

Mander

Well-Known Member
I don't think anyone has any issues with animals used for PTSD, seizures, etc. As long as they are TRAINED animals. You could very well need an animal for your specific emotional need, but just bringing in your pet that has no training to be in these situations is what is causing the problems. I saw a young woman with her "support dog" at Walmart a few weeks ago in the produce isle. And it was clearly not trained because it was tugging on her leash trying to get to some kids. And before you say she could be training it, she ignored it and let it keep tugging on the leash while she picked out her produce. Cases like this is what bothers people.
But that is the exact language I am trying to point out- Emotional Support Animals don't get access to anything but airlines and housing. They shouldn't be in a Disney park or grocery store. If someone is claiming an ESA to get access to a public space, they are likely wrong (minus the previously mentioned airlines). Dogs used for PTSD are service dogs and not ESAs. People seem to use the terms interchangeably but they serve different purposes.

And I'm not saying you can never spot someone faking. It sounds like the person at grocery store likely was. Those people really frustrate me as they just make everything harder for those with actual need.
 

Club Cooloholic

Well-Known Member
But that is the exact language I am trying to point out- Emotional Support Animals don't get access to anything but airlines and housing. They shouldn't be in a Disney park or grocery store. If someone is claiming an ESA to get access to a public space, they are likely wrong (minus the previously mentioned airlines). Dogs used for PTSD are service dogs and not ESAs. People seem to use the terms interchangeably but they serve different purposes.

And I'm not saying you can never spot someone faking. It sounds like the person at grocery store likely was. Those people really frustrate me as they just make everything harder for those with actual need.
I totally agree, its like the folks who abused the wheelchair lines(or even handicap parking, you cant just go around pointing fingers because many really need it, but the ones that abuse it really make it harder for those that do need it.
 

USofA scott

Member
Sorry, but your logic is faulty.
ESA animals are still a specific animal. They are ensured access to Airlines and Housing by Federal law. I think we can all agree on that, however, that does not mean that they are denied access to other facilities. It just means that they do not HAVE to let them in. So, if Disney wants to permit ESA then they can do that. Or if they want to permit them with a few rules, they can do that. Or if they want to allow them in if you claim they are Service Animals, that is their choice.
And it is not your job or place to decide if they are faking or not.
 

Gabe1

Ivory Tower Squabble EST 2011. WINDMILL SURVIVOR
Premium Member
That's a precious photo!

That's clearly a service dog. What most people can't abide is the yapping miniature poodle in the purse...
Yes, I've been around enough service dogs in my life. It is mostly epilepsy and diabetic dogs that are in carry cases or similar. I'm going to go look for a picture of a purse dog that was on the boat with me from Epcot to the Studios a few months back. The Pup was a diabetic dog. The woman actually was checking her sugar levels in the row across from me. But her dog didn't yap. One of the things stressed to recipients is the dog must continue its life as trained when on duty. Some don't unfortunately. We have a man that lives near me and rides a scooter in our small town. While the dog can do many things he also uses the Pup as a social tool. People stop and talk to him and are allowed to pet the dog which isn't the norm while on duty. The man is lonely and the pup loves the attention. The trainers of that Pup would be going Ahhhhhhhhhh!!!
 

Gabe1

Ivory Tower Squabble EST 2011. WINDMILL SURVIVOR
Premium Member
That's a precious photo!

That's clearly a service dog. What most people can't abide is the yapping miniature poodle in the purse...
Yes, I've been around enough service dogs in my life. It is mostly epilepsy and diabetic dogs that are in carry cases or similar. I'm going to go look for a picture of a purse dog that was on the boat with me from Epcot to the Studios a few months back. The Pup was a diabetic dog. The woman actually was checking her sugar levels in the row across from me. But her dog didn't yap. One of the things stressed to recipients is the dog must continue its life as trained when on duty. Some don't unfortunately. We have a man that lives near me and rides a scooter in our small town. While the dog can do many things he also uses the Pup as a social tool. People stop and talk to him and are allowed to pet the dog which isn't the norm while on duty. The man is lonely and the pup loves the attention. The trainers of that Pup would be going Ahhhhhhhhhh!!!

Edit. Found photos. This either April or May Diabetic Service Dog

9FF07687-4F3B-42F1-9640-7487AE99412D.jpeg1173080E-1558-45C1-99E8-0FC0374E5C08.jpeg
 

Gabe1

Ivory Tower Squabble EST 2011. WINDMILL SURVIVOR
Premium Member
Sorry, but your logic is faulty.
ESA animals are still a specific animal. They are ensured access to Airlines and Housing by Federal law. I think we can all agree on that, however, that does not mean that they are denied access to other facilities. It just means that they do not HAVE to let them in. So, if Disney wants to permit ESA then they can do that. Or if they want to permit them with a few rules, they can do that. Or if they want to allow them in if you claim they are Service Animals, that is their choice.
And it is not your job or place to decide if they are faking or not.
Nice post. It isn't just Pups that are judged by Disney Fans, guests with disabilities are judged frequently without Pups. Many threads here about Disney recognizing the need to give special accommodations to guests with wide range of disabilities. When Disney reorganized those special access passes there was also so many that called into question who was and was not really disabled. Me, Im thankful that me nor my family doesn't need a special accommodation pass or in need of a service dog. Amen.

And yes you are correct and even more so at Walt Disney World specifically. ADA as Federal Law has minimum standards. Anywhere in the US the individual states can give more considerations but not less as can individual counties or cities or towns. Allowing more under the ADA is acceptable, less not. Disney is beyond unique. It is mostly governed by Reedy Creek, which lets face it is ultimately controlled by Disney and always has been since the Florida Legislation body allowed it to be formed. Basically if Disney wants to accommodate Pups and let them in for ADA/ESA they can provide that even if it is above and beyond the minimum Federal Requirements.
 

ELG13

Well-Known Member
I saw an article in the Orlando sentinel that a lady was suing Disney because someone questioned her service animals at Disney springs but Disney is counter suing (or something similar) because they followed proper protocol. She has 3 poodles with purple ears or tassles or something. It was only a matter of time and it will be interesting to see how this pans out. I'm not sure if they are for her use or if she's training them...I got both vibes from the article. 3 for personal use seems excessive but it also seems excessive for training as well but I don't know how that works.
I just think that if an animal is CLEARLY not behaving as a legitimate service animal would, they need to leave. Meaning, they shouldn't be barking, begging patrons for food, wandering off on their leash etc. A good service dog you hardly notice. They are working, they know it, so they aren't there to play and Interact with people.
 

disneyworlddad

Well-Known Member
I was at the park last Friday, Saturday, Sunday, and Monday. I saw no less than 5 dogs. I think maybe one might have been a legitimate service dog. I'm sure some of them their owners would have labeled at emotional support dogs but as discussed before that doesn't qualify under the ADA. I think the one true service dog was for a diabetic. I work with someone who has a dog that can tell when his insulin level is dropping too low. I wouldn't have thought it wasn't a service dog until i noticed the man's medical bracelet and medical ***** pack. *Side note one of the dogs I saw was a lab. A breed commonly associated with service dogs. However the dog was not performing any tasks that I could detect and its owner was constantly telling it to heel. Pretty sure a service dog does not need to be told to heel.
 

ELG13

Well-Known Member
I was at the park last Friday, Saturday, Sunday, and Monday. I saw no less than 5 dogs. I think maybe one might have been a legitimate service dog. I'm sure some of them their owners would have labeled at emotional support dogs but as discussed before that doesn't qualify under the ADA. I think the one true service dog was for a diabetic. I work with someone who has a dog that can tell when his insulin level is dropping too low. I wouldn't have thought it wasn't a service dog until i noticed the man's medical bracelet and medical ***** pack. *Side note one of the dogs I saw was a lab. A breed commonly associated with service dogs. However the dog was not performing any tasks that I could detect and its owner was constantly telling it to heel. Pretty sure a service dog does not need to be told to heel.
No, service dogs know what to do and listen better than most humans.
 

bearprn

New Member
Before you call me out for spreading misinformation, might I recommend reading the page where I obtained me original information?

It's the government's ADA FAQ page.

The uses you described in the rest of your post are covered because, as you said, the animals are performing a specific task that assists the person with the disability. I have absolutely no problem with this at all. What I was describing were "Emotional Support Animals" that are only with a person because they calm them down. My dog calms me down, too, when I'm upset or feeling down. I'm not bringing him to WDW and demanding an exception to the "No Pets" rule. If your animal is a legitimate service animal, you need to show a card or something that verifies it. It doesn't, and shouldn't, have to state what your disability is, but it is proof of the legitimacy of your animal. You show the card, your dog goes through. Don't have a card? Time to board Fifi.
What you described were not Emotional Support Animals at that point. Don't muddy the waters. Honestly, it's not worth arguing over. Sorry if I got riled up, but I don't like being accused of spreading misinformation, which I was clearly not doing.
I think the problem here is the service animal and ESA is being used together or interchangeable. They are not, simply put a service animal has been throughly trained for a specific task for their owner an emotional support animal (not all) in most cases has had no training and this is the type that is being abused so self entitled people can flaunt the the rules ! These are the ones the the vests and paperwork can be obtained on the Internet and the ones that cause problems with their behaviors but then look at their owners and consider the source LOL!
 
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ELG13

Well-Known Member
I've mentioned it before....I work for electrophysiology and many of our patients have implantable devices that requires them to carry cards to show ID for when they go to the airport. This allows them to bypass the normal security process because the device itself would set off the metal detectors every single time. The card does not say why they have their device it simply says they have a device and they need special accommodations for security in airports and anywhere else metal detectors are used. Part of our physicians job is to fill out the paperwork for these forms. Legitimate service animals should have the same type of paperwork. People who use these animals have a legitimate need for them thus they should be able to get a prescription essentially from one of their doctors for the animal and get proper identification. Again it doesn't need to say the reason for the animal, it would simply state that it is a legitimate service animal. It's just like anything else really. When patients want to file for disability or patients need assistance with bills Etc they turn in paperwork to our doctors and our doctor approves or denies it with the proper documentation. It's really not that hard of a concept to workout. The difficulty would lie in people who already have service animals getting the proper documentation and figuring out where the documentation would come from and who it would be filled out by. But essentially if you look at it like a prescription again there are multiple types of doctors that could write the prescription for the service animal. the logistics might be a little tricky to start but I think we're beyond the point of it being necessary. I'm tired of seeing people in restaurants holding their miniature poodles in their lap at their table. I no joke saw an older couple with a miniature poodle at Waffle House sitting at the bar with a miniature poodle in the husband's lap. My daughter said that it was cute I made a comment that it's not legal and then the dog disappeared magically. Some of these people just do it because they think no one's going to say anything about it. I would never seek someone out and make them feel uncomfortable but if my daughter wants to have a conversation about it I'll have a conversation with her and if they happen to overhear me well then that's on them. Again it's very easy to tell the difference between a real service animal and a fake service animal or emotional support dog. We have dogs coming into our office all the time now. There's one patient that has three poodles on leashes that he brings with them that he drags onto the elevator because they're too afraid to get on. Obviously that's not a service animal. We also have a patient who has a full size Doberman Pinscher that is very much a real service animal. How do I know this? Because I didn't even notice the dog at first. He gave him very simple quiet quick commands the dog followed and paid no attention to me or any of the other employees. Sorry for the rant... I'm just over it. I have no faith in people that bring their "emotional support animal" to keep them under control. If one ends up biting one of my kids, God help that owner.
 

NormC

Premium Member
She has no reason or permission to take pictures and videos of children without the parents knowledge and post them on social media and accuse the child of kicking her Poodles. None of the pictures or videos shows the said child near any of her Poodles. She’s just taking pictures of children, it unsettling and creepy..........child pervert creepy!
No permission required to photograph children in a theme park. It might be creepy to you but it is not illegal in Florida or California.
 
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