Park capacities when remodeled?

[thomas998]

Why would this be nice? What purpose does it serve? The point of exits is to let people get away from the danger and the parks still let people move away from a problem. Theme parks are not the only space people congregate outside buildings.

It would be nice, because if they had to enforce a capacity limit on the number of people the let into MK or any other Disney park based on the amount of space inside, then the parks would have to either expand or stop allowing so many people in. Frankly I would hope that if they ever did such a thing as define allowable capacity that they would also require parks to count the amount of space a stroller or scooter takes up as well because we all know if you had the same number of people in the park they have on a crowded day but you could magically eliminate all the scooters and strollers that you would instantly be in a less crowded park.

 

[lazyboy97o]

It would be nice, because if they had to enforce a capacity limit on the number of people the let into MK or any other Disney park based on the amount of space inside, then the parks would have to either expand or stop allowing so many people in. Frankly I would hope that if they ever did such a thing as define allowable capacity that they would also require parks to count the amount of space a stroller or scooter takes up as well because we all know if you had the same number of people in the park they have on a crowded day but you could magically eliminate all the scooters and strollers that you would instantly be in a less crowded park.

The building code will let you cram people up to 5 square feet per person. That’s roughly 2’-3” x 2’-3” per person. Even at a more typical 7 sq ft per person, that’s only about 2’-8” x 2’-8” for each person. There’s plenty of room to cram people into the parks based on such a metric.

 

[thomas998]

The building code will let you cram people up to 5 square feet per person. That’s roughly 2’-3” x 2’-3” per person. Even at a more typical 7 sq ft per person, that’s only about 2’-8” x 2’-8” for each person. There’s plenty of room to cram people into the parks based on such a metric.

It all depends on what formula they might use to calculate capacity... I'm pretty sure if they went with a square foot per person calculation they would also subtract out the space that people couldn't occupy... For all we know if they ever came up with a formula it might also include the number of exits and size of those exits in the formula. I think anyone that has been to Disney when they have big rush to leave after the fireworks knows that if there was a real emergency and people needed to exit or die that there would be some deaths because you have thousands of people that have to squeeze through two exit points under the railway that are not that wide given the number of people trying to use them at the same time.

 

[lazyboy97o]

It all depends on what formula they might use to calculate capacity... I'm pretty sure if they went with a square foot per person calculation they would also subtract out the space that people couldn't occupy... For all we know if they ever came up with a formula it might also include the number of exits and size of those exits in the formula. I think anyone that has been to Disney when they have big rush to leave after the fireworks knows that if there was a real emergency and people needed to exit or die that there would be some deaths because you have thousands of people that have to squeeze through two exit points under the railway that are not that wide given the number of people trying to use them at the same time.

These aren’t some unknowns. Square footage doesn’t include unoccupied space and how to size means of egress is defined. The main entrance into the park is not the only place people can be moved out of the park, just like the front door of a building is not the only way out. You’re not going to end up with fewer people in the parks by enforcing occupancy through such calculations.

 

[mergatroid]

Slightly off topic. I seem to remember somebody saying one time that there's a plan to let guests into the utilidors in the unlikely event of a tornado hitting the MK during operating hours. Anyone heard of this?

 

[Mgrayar]

It all depends on what formula they might use to calculate capacity... I'm pretty sure if they went with a square foot per person calculation they would also subtract out the space that people couldn't occupy... For all we know if they ever came up with a formula it might also include the number of exits and size of those exits in the formula. I think anyone that has been to Disney when they have big rush to leave after the fireworks knows that if there was a real emergency and people needed to exit or die that there would be some deaths because you have thousands of people that have to squeeze through two exit points under the railway that are not that wide given the number of people trying to use them at the same time.

I think the part you are missing is each park has several emergency exits that are not always visible to the guests. They do a good job of keeping the magic but in an emergency they have designated cast members assigned to each exit.

If something happened, it wouldn’t be a mad rush for the main gate. Each section of the park would have its own designated exit within CMs directing traffic.

 

[peter11435]

Slightly off topic. I seem to remember somebody saying one time that there's a plan to let guests into the utilidors in the unlikely event of a tornado hitting the MK during operating hours. Anyone heard of this?

Yes

 

[s8film40]

Slightly off topic. I seem to remember somebody saying one time that there's a plan to let guests into the utilidors in the unlikely event of a tornado hitting the MK during operating hours. Anyone heard of this?

Yes. They have three plans A,B, and C. A means accelerated exit, essentially they have everyone exit normally as fast as safely possible. All attractions and stores close immediately. B is for backstage they would have guests exit through backstage areas as quickly as possible not necessarily through the front entrance. C means to take cover. This is where the utilidors would come in, they actually have signs in them designating them as a plan C location.

If you go back and look at videos from the morning of 9/11 you can actually hear one of the park closing spiels. It basically says the park is closed and to exit ending with the voice saying “plan A” at the end. They have one of these for each one and CM’s should know how to handle each in their area.

 

[Driver]

It all depends on what formula they might use to calculate capacity... I'm pretty sure if they went with a square foot per person calculation they would also subtract out the space that people couldn't occupy... For all we know if they ever came up with a formula it might also include the number of exits and size of those exits in the formula. I think anyone that has been to Disney when they have big rush to leave after the fireworks knows that if there was a real emergency and people needed to exit or die that there would be some deaths because you have thousands of people that have to squeeze through two exit points under the railway that are not that wide given the number of people trying to use them at the same time.

I guess you missed my post about the three levels for egress. And how people walk by them without even knowing! There are exits all around the parks that will allow large volumes of people out!!!!!!! In an emergency any park can be emptied in minutes!!!

 

[Driver]

Slightly off topic. I seem to remember somebody saying one time that there's a plan to let guests into the utilidors in the unlikely event of a tornado hitting the MK during operating hours. Anyone heard of this?

Yes that's a fact as well, and is included in one of the levels in the plan. Some of the above ground buildings are considered storm proof as well. In the event this would happen CM's would direct guest to "safe areas".

 

[thomas998]

These aren’t some unknowns. Square footage doesn’t include unoccupied space and how to size means of egress is defined. The main entrance into the park is not the only place people can be moved out of the park, just like the front door of a building is not the only way out. You’re not going to end up with fewer people in the parks by enforcing occupancy through such calculations.

You are missing the point. It has already been pointed out that the fire marshal doesn't have any capacity requirements for outdoor parks... but if they were to ever create any then it is possible that it would result in parks like Disney having to deal with new regulations.

 

[thomas998]

I guess you missed my post about the three levels for egress. And how people walk by them without even knowing! There are exits all around the parks that will allow large volumes of people out!!!!!!! In an emergency any park can be emptied in minutes!!!

Not sure if they were to enact regulations for outdoor parks if they would be allowed to keep the exits hidden... You aren't allowed to hide exit signs indoors so I doubt they would let them outdoors.

 

[lazyboy97o]

You are missing the point. It has already been pointed out that the fire marshal doesn't have any capacity requirements for outdoor parks... but if they were to ever create any then it is possible that it would result in parks like Disney having to deal with new regulations.

I’m the one who pointed that out. What you’re not connecting is that your regulations wouldn’t fix the alleged problem. Fire Marshals use published standards that allow for rather dense crowds, those standards aren’t going to somehow be considered safe in a building but unsafe out in the open.

 

[thomas998]

I’m the one who pointed that out. What you’re not connecting is that your regulations wouldn’t fix the alleged problem. Fire Marshals use published standards that allow for rather dense crowds, those standards aren’t going to somehow be considered safe in a building but unsafe out in the open.

I don't think applying the square footage they use in buildings would help at all and expect that as you say they wouldn't say you needed more square feet outside than you need inside... I'm not sure how many square feet MK has outside, but even a 5 square foot space for each person would certainly cause them problems if they looked at it on an area by area basis, such as the area in front of the castle when they do their shows, or mainstreet when they have a parade. Pretty sure that in those areas when the events are going on they have people crammed in with a lot less than 5 square feet per person.

One would hope that if they ever did come up with regulations that they wouldn't be X number for the MK as a whole but rather X numbers for various areas which would make more sense and would eventually force them to start putting some limits on crowd sizes in some areas... Imagine if it happened and created a situation where they limited the number of people that were allowed to stand on the sidewalks watching parades, it would likely upset a lot of guests to be told they couldn't watch the parade because they had too many people there and might just force Disney to start limiting the number of people they let in or finding some other way to fix the crowding that is happening in the parks right now.

 

[BoarderPhreak]

The park walkways are generally considered a “public way” in terms of building codes, so they are not maintaining a means of egress throughout the park, just the individual buildings. The minimum width that will be maintained throughout any park is what is required for fire truck access.

Park capacities are very much based on attraction capacity.

Ahh, good to know! Interesting.

 

[Driver]

Not sure if they were to enact regulations for outdoor parks if they would be allowed to keep the exits hidden... You aren't allowed to hide exit signs indoors so I doubt they would let them outdoors.

The exits I speak of are above and beyond what is required. And are merely an egress from the onstage areas. The normal exits still have the appropriate signage.