Orlando's High Speed Rail (SunRail) Given Go-Ahead by Florida Gov. Rick Scott

Gringrinngghost

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
TALLAHASSEE, Fla. -- According to the Florida Department of Transportation, Gov. Rick Scott decided to approve plans for a commuter rail train Central Florida on Friday.
"I commend the Governor for moving forward and joining with local and federal partners in approving this transportation milestone," U.S. Rep. John L. Mica said in a statement.
The $1.2 billion SunRail project will run along Interstate 4 through Volusia, Seminole, Orange and Osceola counties.
Scott said he studied the plan all year and listened to both sides of the argument. He said he wanted to be sure the project is in the state's best fiscal interests.
Months ago, Scott turned away federal money that would have helped build a high-speed rail system that would have connected Orlando and Tampa. Scott said he feared the state would have been responsible for any debt created by that project if it were not successful.
The SunRail project is expected to bring thousands of jobs to the area.
"I am glad to see that the Florida state government has decided to be a team player and work with local and federal government to improve our transportation system. The approval of Sun Rail will be crucial in putting the hard working people of Florida back to work and in decreasing the terrible congestion plaguing the entire Central Florida region," congresswoman Corrine Brown said.

Read more: http://www.wesh.com/news/28418682/detail.html#ixzz1QsTRMKMa

ORLANDO, Fla. -- The Florida Department of Transportation announced Friday it has been given the green light from Gov. Rick Scott for the SunRail commuter rail.
According to a FDOT news release, Scott authorized the department to sign the full funding grant agreement for the project.
“The local officials told me they strongly support SunRail and will work with the State and businesses to ensure its success. Furthermore, they clearly understand that the local governments will cover cost overruns,” said FDOT Secretary Ananth Prasad. “Be assured, I will hold the local officials and the private businesses to their commitments to make SunRail succeed.”
SunRail will use an existing 61-mile length of railroad tracks to transport people within Orange, Osceola, Seminole and Volusia counties.
FDOT said the first 31-mile phase of SUnRail will link Orlando to DeBary and will serve 12 stations. The second phase will have five additional stations, running north to DeLand and south to Poinciana.
SunRail service is expected to begin in late 2013 or early 2014.

http://www.clickorlando.com/news/28419531/detail.html

Gov. Scott Approves, SunRail Project Back On Track

Gov. Scott Approves SunRail Project
Posted: 6:59 am EDT July 1, 2011
Updated: 1:13 pm EDT July 1, 2011

CENTRAL FLORIDA -- Gov. Rick Scott has given his approval for Orlando's proposed commuter rail system.
Transportation Secretary Ananth Prasad said Friday he expects the $1.2 billion project will be completed in early 2014.
Orange County Mayor Teresa Jacobs also announced at a press conference on Friday that SunRail is back on track.
Scott had suspended it shortly after taking office last January, saying he wanted to study its feasibility and costs. The rail will connect downtown Orlando with Osceola, Seminole and Volusia counties.
Opponents, led by Tea Party activists, claimed the commuter rail was a boondoggle whose operation costs would never justify the paltry ridership predicted in car-loving Orlando. Forecasts projected 2,500 people a day would initially use the line.
The state's share of the costs was expected to be $432 million to purchase 61.5 miles of track from CSX and another $66 million for operating subsidies.

http://www.wftv.com/news/28416844/detail.html

Gov. Rick Scott this morning gave the go-ahead to SunRail, the long-delayed Central Florida commuter train project.

Ananth Prasad, secretary of the state Department of Transportation, made the official announcement during aTallahassee news conference heavily attended by public-relations staffers working for local governments and business groups backing the project.

The $1.2 billion train was put on hold in January by Scott, who has made it clear that he is no fan of the project.

"SunRail is a project that the Department, previous governors, legislatures, local elected officials, and tens of thousands of Floridians have spent years working on to move forward," said Prasad, who toured the region this week. He said local government partners "supported a commuter rail system and the local governments will participate in any cost overruns."

Prasad said the six-month delay in the project didn't unearth any new facts but was needed for the governor's "due diligence." He said the state was committed to making it work with minimum cost overruns.

"We're going to deliver this project with the least amount of cost overruns," Prasad said. "This project is going to be sort of a judgment day project. If we cannot make SunRail successful, probably there will be no more commuter trains in Florida. … we have to make this train, SunRail, successful."

The decision sets the stage for SunRail to begin operations as early as May 2014, running between DeBary in Volusia County, downtown Orlando and the south edge of Orange County. Within another couple of years it supposed to go to DeLand in Volusia andPoinciana inOsceola County.

The approval ends the region's 30-year struggle to come up with a transportation alternative to cars and buses. Previous attempts that included magnetically levitated trains and light rail have failed.

Close to 50 Central Florida leaders gathered at the offices of MetroPlan in downtownOrlando to await Prasad's announcement. But since there was no television linkup, they had to rely on cell phones to get the final word.

"Needless to say, this is a great day for Central Florida," said Orange County Mayor Teresa Jacobs. "We can all breath a lot easier now, literally and figuratively."

Orlando Mayor Buddy Dyer, a staunch SunRail supporter who is on vacation, issued a statement saying, "Securing this once-in-a-generation project has not been easy. As the saying goes, nothing worth doing is ever easy."

U.S. Rep. John Mica, R-Winter Park, who was instrumental in winning a federal pledge of more than $300 million for the train, said, ""This is as significant for the state as when Henry Flagler brought the railroad to Florida and when President Eisenhower initiated the Interstate. This transportation alternative offers the only real cost-effective, near-term solution for our region's highway congestion, and will have tremendous benefits for employment."

While Scott closely held his decision, he did leave hints that he would give his approval, most prominently by setting aside more than $269 million for SunRail in the state budget that takes effect today.

That money largely is slated for CSX, the Jacksonville-based railroad company that owns the tracks the state would buy for the commuter train.

The state Department of Transportation is in charge of getting SunRail on the move and will oversee operations for the first seven years. After that, the local governments would take control.

An estimated 4,200 construction jobs are supposed to be created by the train, along with an untold amount of development planned around the 17 stops on the 61-mile system. One of the biggest expansion plans revolves around the Florida Hospital campus just north of downtown Orlando.

More than $70 million in taxpayer dollars has already been spent gearing up for the project, first proposed in 2005 by former Gov.Jeb Bush.

Nonetheless, Scott's decision to put the project on hold in January sent shockwaves through local business and political circles and prompted months of behind-the-scenes lobbying and negotiations to get the train started again.

"This was a total regional effort to convey support for the project," said House Speaker Dean Cannon, a Winter Park Republican who pushed the project's insurance-liability provisions through his chamber twice and said he as "really proud of the governor."

But critics of Scott's decision last February to scuttle another $2.7 billion high-speed rail project that was almost exclusively financed by the federal government blasted the governor for what they called an obvious contradiction.

"Governor Scott used all the right arguments to green light the wrong rail project," said Sen. Arthenia Joyner, a Tampa Democrat who unsuccessfully sued Scott after he killed the Tampa-to-Orlando high-speed rail project.

"His support had nothing to do with good policy, good logic, or the good of Floridians. But it had everything to do with hypocrisy and allegiance to his Republican brethren."

Cannon said there was a practical difference between the two trains. "It's a different project in the degree of planning and the return for SunRail, versus the unpredictability of high-speed rail," he said.

Sharon Calvert of the Tampa tea party said she was "extremely disappointed" in the decision and would be watching Prasad to ensure that if the train performs poorly that the state does not bail out local jurisdictions.

"I'm concerned with the Florida taxpayer. I think there's liability," Calvert said.

Everett Wilkinson of the South Florida tea party in West Palm Beach said, ""Governor Rick Scott was clearly being influenced by big money lobbyists and failed to deliver on his promises. I really thought he was going to fight more for the taxpayers and wouldn't give up."

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/os-sunrail-scott-decision-20110701,0,5530419.story
 

mickeysaver

Well-Known Member
I think this is going to be a very good thing for Florida. I am so glad that he pulled his head out of his hind parts and saw the freakin' light.
 

AndyMagic

Well-Known Member
Please note the title of this thread is incorrect. SunRail and the Florida High Speed Rail projects are completely different and unrelated. HSR was to link Tampa with Orlando and Disney World. SunRail is a commuter rail line that will travel along existing rights-of-way currently used for freight and help connect downtown Orlando with the metro area. This is still great news for the area and it will probably mean good urban growth centered around downtown Orlando, helping to give the city its true heart back. Anything that brings Floridians out of their cars is good in my book.
 

fillerup

Well-Known Member
Not that I give a hoot about thread placement, but this is hardly Disney related as this train won't be coming within a $20 cab ride of WDW.
 

CJR

Well-Known Member
Not that I give a hoot about thread placement, but this is hardly Disney related as this train won't be coming within a $20 cab ride of WDW.

This will be an artery that will lead to many vessels. I know there plans for many lines to eventually be added to this one. I have no doubt if successful Disney will link a train to this.

There are plans for a train to run from the airport all the way to I-Drive. It wouldn't be much harder for Disney to pay the money and have a rail go to them. It would have to be cheaper than relying on the Magical Express. This would be years down the road, maybe even a decade or so.

I think it's more likely that Disney will just pay for the high speed rail to go from the airport to Disney than it is for them to do what I mentioned. I just wanted to note the possibilities.
 

WDWFigment

Well-Known Member
This will be an artery that will lead to many vessels. I know there plans for many lines to eventually be added to this one. I have no doubt if successful Disney will link a train to this.

There are plans for a train to run from the airport all the way to I-Drive. It wouldn't be much harder for Disney to pay the money and have a rail go to them. It would have to be cheaper than relying on the Magical Express. This would be years down the road, maybe even a decade or so.

I think it's more likely that Disney will just pay for the high speed rail to go from the airport to Disney than it is for them to do what I mentioned. I just wanted to note the possibilities.

Why on earth would Disney want either HSR or this? Anything that gives people the opportunity to easily get off of Disney property is not something likely to be favored by Disney.

If I'm missing something that might change this, let me know, but I wouldn't be surprised if Disney was leading the charge in opposition of the HSR. :shrug:
 

CJR

Well-Known Member
Why on earth would Disney want either HSR or this? Anything that gives people the opportunity to easily get off of Disney property is not something likely to be favored by Disney.

If I'm missing something that might change this, let me know, but I wouldn't be surprised if Disney was leading the charge in opposition of the HSR. :shrug:

Why? It would save them a lot more money than the Magical Express.
 

Disney61

Active Member
"One of the biggest expansion plans revolves around the Florida Hospital campus just north of downtown Orlando."

One has to wonder what motivated Gov. Scott to approve this state funded rail project after he refused to approve a high speed rail project that was to be paid by the federal goverment. If I recall correctly, Gov. Scott was in the health care business prior to his current position. Oh well, just glad he's not my state's executive leader.
 

wizards8507

Active Member
Why? It would save them a lot more money than the Magical Express.

Wrong. It would cause them to bleed money. The Magical Express costs money to run but it keeps people on Disney property and ONLY on Disney property. With more robust public transportation, folks would be more likely to split their Disney trip into a Disney/Universal/SeaWorld trip.

Why on earth would Disney want either HSR or this? Anything that gives people the opportunity to easily get off of Disney property is not something likely to be favored by Disney.

If I'm missing something that might change this, let me know, but I wouldn't be surprised if Disney was leading the charge in opposition of the HSR. :shrug:

This.

Enjoy your future tax burden Orlando!

Also, this.
 

fillerup

Well-Known Member
This will be an artery that will lead to many vessels. I know there plans for many lines to eventually be added to this one. I have no doubt if successful Disney will link a train to this.

There are plans for a train to run from the airport all the way to I-Drive. It wouldn't be much harder for Disney to pay the money and have a rail go to them. It would have to be cheaper than relying on the Magical Express. This would be years down the road, maybe even a decade or so.

I think it's more likely that Disney will just pay for the high speed rail to go from the airport to Disney than it is for them to do what I mentioned. I just wanted to note the possibilities.

I applaud your optimism, but there are a few problems.

There are no plans for a rail line from the airport to I-Drive. There are no plans for any other lines than the 61 miles from Deland to Poinciana, although those could develop.

Sunrail is going to cost about $20 million per mile. To build from the airport to WDW would be around $500 million in today's dollars, and that's just the capital cost. Disney would not in a million years spend that kind of money on transportation. I would guess that ME is costing Disney around $20 million a year at the current rate of around 2 million passengers.
 

_Scar

Active Member
I'm glad we are getting some kind of high speed rail and moving into the 21st century (finally).

Whether or not this can solve all the problems or not, it's a great start and it will take thousands of cars off the road for a given period if the estimates are right which also is better than nothing. It will also hopefully provide hundreds of jobs to build the line as well as strengthen businesses by each station.
 

wizards8507

Active Member
I'm glad we are getting some kind of high speed rail and moving into the 21st century (finally).

This isn't a high speed rail. Trains are 19th century, not 21st century.

Whether or not this can solve all the problems or not, it's a great start and it will take thousands of cars off the road for a given period if the estimates are right which also is better than nothing.

That's a monster "if."

It will also hopefully provide hundreds of jobs to build the line...

Hundreds of temporary jobs.

...as well as strengthen businesses by each station.

...and hurt the businesses that relied on commuter/vehicular transportation.
 

MrMorrowTom

Member
I applaud your optimism, but there are a few problems.

There are no plans for a rail line from the airport to I-Drive. There are no plans for any other lines than the 61 miles from Deland to Poinciana, although those could develop.

Sunrail is going to cost about $20 million per mile. To build from the airport to WDW would be around $500 million in today's dollars, and that's just the capital cost. Disney would not in a million years spend that kind of money on transportation. I would guess that ME is costing Disney around $20 million a year at the current rate of around 2 million passengers.

There actually is plans for connecting the Airport to I drive.
http://www.sunrail.com/oiaconnector.asp

This straight from the sunrail website.

Granted this isn't the High Speed Rail we all wanted but it is a major step forward for the city of Orlando. Remember this is still a young city, There wasn't much of a city Orlando before WDW came.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
I think it's more likely that Disney will just pay for the high speed rail to go from the airport to Disney than it is for them to do what I mentioned. I just wanted to note the possibilities.
There is no distance to properly utilize high speed rail between Walt Disney World and Orlando International Airport. It would never get anywhere close to "high speeds" on such a short trip.

Why on earth would Disney want either HSR or this? Anything that gives people the opportunity to easily get off of Disney property is not something likely to be favored by Disney.

If I'm missing something that might change this, let me know, but I wouldn't be surprised if Disney was leading the charge in opposition of the HSR. :shrug:
Supporting the high speed rail project was Disney having its cake and eating it too. They wanted to continue to own the land and wanted to operate the station on their property. Magical Express was going to still be operated for free and the likely cost of a high speed rail ticket also made it very unlikely that many would use it to leave property. If people are not rushing to hire taxis off property, why would they pay more to take a train off property?

Several of us on here suggested that what would be better is if the high speed rail project was converted to a conventional rail project, as it would be significantly cheaper to build and operate while only adding a few minutes to the Orlando-Tampa trip. But I could see Disney not liking such a plan as the tickets would suddenly be a lot cheaper.



One has to wonder what motivated Gov. Scott to approve this state funded rail project after he refused to approve a high speed rail project that was to be paid by the federal goverment. If I recall correctly, Gov. Scott was in the health care business prior to his current position. Oh well, just glad he's not my state's executive leader.
The high speed rail project was only going to be built by the federal government, not the high ongoing operating costs. High speed rail only offered a few minutes saved over automobile or conventional rail taking the same route at a significantly higher cost. That he supports this project shows he is not an all out enemy of rail, he was just not sucked into the flash of having a "high speed" rail project.
 

TP2000

Well-Known Member
I'm glad we are getting some kind of high speed rail and moving into the 21st century (finally).

This is not "high speed rail", it is simply "rail".

And commuter rail at that, with a station roughly every 3 miles (sometimes much less) along the 31 mile length, which means the trains will be travelling at an average speed of 30MPH with lots of stops and starts.

But in the rest of the world "high speed" begins around the 150 MPH threshhold and goes up to a global standard of 180MPH. The Japanese and the French have daily operating trains that travel around 200MPH.

SunRail is basic commuter rail on 100 year old tracks (single-tracked most of the way) lumbering along with freight traffic and stopping every few miles. It's only "high speed" in comparison to the PeopleMover.
 

CJR

Well-Known Member
For those who think this would lead people to venturing off of Disney property, why? It would make it easier, but I don't think it would necessarily cause more people to venture to Sea World or Universal. It's not like it's really that hard for them to get off property now. It would just save those people money instead of paying $50 to take a cab.

A mass transportation system aside from Lynx would be great for tourists, good for theme parks, bad for taxis. If people want to go to Disney, they will. If they spend less days at Disney it's not because there's a train to take them off property (buses currently do that) it's because Disney's ticket prices are too high. Again, if people want to go to Walt Disney World, they will. If they want to go to Universal, they will. A train would just make it quicker than taking Lynx.

As for the initial Sun Rail, I think it will be used more for things like Orlando Magic games. I'm not sure how many of you know Orlando outside of Lake Buena Vista, but traffic is beyond horrible on game days. The train will stop at the Lynx station which is just a couple blocks from the Amway Center. I think this train will cause more events in Downtown Orlando.
 

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