What parks are you referring to that Disney built, "quickly"?
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Only a "Fool" Would Believe the 5th Park is Near...
- Thread starter Funmeister
- Start date
GoofGoof
Premium Member
I think it's a matter of poor management combined with bad PR. We are in an age where everyone loves to draw quick conclusions based on incomplete info or viral videos/posts and crucify people or companies based on it. Everybody seems to love to hop onto their moral high horses and join a cause when they see someone being piled on. Nobody stops anymore to get all the facts or info.
All that being said, from a market share perspective Sea World suffered much more than WDW when Potter opened. A lot of people who visited Disney did side trips to Sea World. Some of those people picked Universal instead over the last 5 to 7 years. Sea World isn't enough of a draw to bring unique visitors to Orlando, but Universal now is. Outside of the bad PR I think that has added to the problem. Their CA park hasn't faired well either so the bad PR from the documentary is still the biggest driver.
ford91exploder
Resident Curmudgeon
Ones that exist only as fanboi fever dreams...
Not quickly in terms of construction -- just how quickly Disney built DHS and DAK right before Universal opened their parks.
- Disney's Hollywood Studios opened on May 1st, 1989.
- Universal Orlando opened on June 1st, 1990 -- exactly *one* year after DHS.
- Disney's Animal Kingdom opened on April 22, 1998.
- Universal's Islands of Adventure opened on May 29, 1999 -- again, exactly *one* year after DAK.
Wow, this is so true @GoofGoof -- I totally agree! This is very well said.
*sigh* I just don't know what to make of Sea World -- just thinking about this park makes me feel withdrawn and a little sad. I honestly feel like Sea World could have bounced back easy with a PR team like Disney. But, they just enabled their issues to go on and on for years. I wish them the best though.
Um, not me. I am not a fan girl of *anything* not even my fashion. LOL.
OvertheHorizon
Well-Known Member
Here are a few ideas for a "Fifth Gate."
1) I completely agree that DHS and Epcot need more love before a 5th gate is considered.
2) My suggestion is to develop a park that would be aimed at families with young children (you know, the stroller crowd). But still have things that parents and their young children can do together - similar to Walt's original dream for Disneyland - but since there are four parks that adults, children, teens, and seniors can enjoy, this fifth park could be aimed exclusively at parents with young children.
3) I think that such a park could be built relatively cheaply by using "off the shelf" amusement rides to which Disney could add their own themes (as opposed to a lot of creative imagineered rides - which can be added to the existing parks). I'm picturing a combination of the "kiddie" rides like those in the Magic Kingdom, and - bear with me now - areas like the much maligned Chester and Hester's in AK or the Toy Story Playlands built other Disney parks. A kid in a stroller is going to appreciate those kind of experiences just as much, and from a marketing perspective you develop an audience ready to appreciate the magic of what Disney has in the other parks.
4) Disney has the land, a tree farm to beautifully landscape a new park, they could build wide boulevards for strollers and plan spacious parking areas for those strollers. Food in such a park would be family fare and child friendly.
5) In addition, I believe there would be an opportunity to price admission for such a park at a much more affordable price point, which would also help draw people away from the Magic Kingdom, thus making MK a much more enjoyable experience.
1) I completely agree that DHS and Epcot need more love before a 5th gate is considered.
2) My suggestion is to develop a park that would be aimed at families with young children (you know, the stroller crowd). But still have things that parents and their young children can do together - similar to Walt's original dream for Disneyland - but since there are four parks that adults, children, teens, and seniors can enjoy, this fifth park could be aimed exclusively at parents with young children.
3) I think that such a park could be built relatively cheaply by using "off the shelf" amusement rides to which Disney could add their own themes (as opposed to a lot of creative imagineered rides - which can be added to the existing parks). I'm picturing a combination of the "kiddie" rides like those in the Magic Kingdom, and - bear with me now - areas like the much maligned Chester and Hester's in AK or the Toy Story Playlands built other Disney parks. A kid in a stroller is going to appreciate those kind of experiences just as much, and from a marketing perspective you develop an audience ready to appreciate the magic of what Disney has in the other parks.
4) Disney has the land, a tree farm to beautifully landscape a new park, they could build wide boulevards for strollers and plan spacious parking areas for those strollers. Food in such a park would be family fare and child friendly.
5) In addition, I believe there would be an opportunity to price admission for such a park at a much more affordable price point, which would also help draw people away from the Magic Kingdom, thus making MK a much more enjoyable experience.
Chef Mickey
Well-Known Member
Wrong, wrong, and wrong. This has been debunked multiple times by people who actually dig into the numbers.
Cliffs Notes: Growth % are only for losers. I started a theme park at my house. It had 2 visitors last year. This year, it has 8 visitors or 400% growth. Am I clobbering Disney?
Disney has more guests than ever and has a bigger base by multiple factors. If the overall pie grows a little it doesn't mean Disney is losing guests, it means the market is getting larger. Growth is easier when you have less than half the guests attending your most popular park.
jhendrix
Well-Known Member
Disney has a new app/game called "Magic Kingdoms." The premise is that Maleficent has cast a dark spell over the Disney Parks and it needs to be restored. This sounds vaguely similar to Shadowlands/Beastly Kingdom, aka, a park centered around the Disney villains.
Judging by the game, the concept is still out there. Now Disney "just" needs to build it for real.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.gameloft.android.ANMP.GloftDYHM&hl=en
Judging by the game, the concept is still out there. Now Disney "just" needs to build it for real.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.gameloft.android.ANMP.GloftDYHM&hl=en
GoofGoof
Premium Member
This is an interesting concept. Legoland is sorta like this. Almost every ride is geared towards the younger crowd and it's more affordable.
GoofGoof
Premium Member
A villain park would be pretty cool. They could also do a hero vs villain park with one side being themed to heroes and one side being themed to villains. They could meet in the middle for a battle as the show each night.
MagicHappens1971
Well-Known Member
That would be really cool! They could even do like a castle on each side? They could have the main entry way, then on your left would be Aurora's Castle on the left and Maleficents on the right? Then they could meet in the middle on a stage of some sort? An interactive park would also be kinda cool, where the whole park is cursed and everyone who enters gets split up into teams and they all have to work together throughout the day to save the kingdom, and then at the end of the night the castle's curse would clear in a gathering of all the guests? That would have to be really strategically planned and probably really unlikely but it just sounded like a cool idea
ford91exploder
Resident Curmudgeon
Sorry meant that as a snarky joke, #FAIL my bad
ford91exploder
Resident Curmudgeon
It's an awesome idea and one I for one would like to see
GoofGoof
Premium Member
It could definitely work. Think about the possibilities for meet and greets, dining and merchandise sales.
I think if they have a 5th gate at WDW it has to be somehow unique. They can't just build another park with several random lands and no unifying theme (see DHS). It has to be something creative that also provides enough differentiation so it doesn't step on the toes of the other 4.
RSoxNo1
Well-Known Member
I hate the idea of a value engineered anything.
Phicinfan
Well-Known Member
Sorry I just don't buy it. I see NO way disney reacts at all to Universal, third gate or not, as they are playing catch up, not Disney. My gut says the most we can hope for is one more phase in DHS other than TSL and SWE, and some work put in Epcot. I also think there is more chance of additions to MK before Epcot, just gut feeling.
SWE will take in a ton, an absolute TON of people in, done right nor not. So unless Universal creates a third gate that is totally in vogue, it won't matter a bit.
Just my point of view, but I think @Siren is way off.
SWE will take in a ton, an absolute TON of people in, done right nor not. So unless Universal creates a third gate that is totally in vogue, it won't matter a bit.
Just my point of view, but I think @Siren is way off.
Ron Swanson
New Member
I think park redos are the future for now. Fifth gate in Orlando seems like it would still be another 30 years away.
GoofGoof
Premium Member
I think most of us would rather have additions to the 4 existing parks over a 5th gate, but instead of spending a billion on each park (which they could all use) Disney may decide to go with a 5th gate because it would generate more revenue. I agree that Disney won't react to Universal directly. If they build a 5th gate it would be on their terms and timeline. They won't rush to match Universal like they did with MGM Studios.
BrerJon
Well-Known Member
I suspect a fifth gate will be a super cheap to build, super expensive experience to attend upcharge boutique park, like Discovery Cove - Disney's Character Kingdom or something.
What they'll do is flesh out an expansion pad at an existing park, instead of building an all new one, and make that 'land' an entire park, market it as a fifth gate, charge $250 entry but give every guest a meal included in the price and guaranteed Fastpass to the 3 or 4 attractions they'd build there, filling it with character meet and greets to line up for so that it takes most of the day to do, but without them having to build more than a few attractions.
What they'll do is flesh out an expansion pad at an existing park, instead of building an all new one, and make that 'land' an entire park, market it as a fifth gate, charge $250 entry but give every guest a meal included in the price and guaranteed Fastpass to the 3 or 4 attractions they'd build there, filling it with character meet and greets to line up for so that it takes most of the day to do, but without them having to build more than a few attractions.
GoofGoof
Premium Member
There were some rumors that they considered an adult oriented boutique park a while back. That could be a potential plan. It's more likely that they go high price based on recent pricing trends.
doctornick
Well-Known Member
I think Star Wars would still work as a boutique park concept. Have the planned Star Wars land at DHS for the masses, but then have a small more individualized/hands on experience in a boutique park costing more money, but with fewer guests. I think it could work if they wanted to go that direction.