On layoffs, very bad attendance, and Iger's legacy being one of disgrace

[UNCgolf]

NRJ is a fantastic 2/3rds of a ride, I feel like I’m on Pandora and the rising action of the Navi marching through give me a feeling something is about to happen. The Shamen is incredible and I remember thinking on my first ride, ok we are now going to float through a Navi ceremony with everyone chanting (like in the movie when they try to save Segorney Weaver) but nope, we round a corner and there’s the exit platform. I purpose this ride to Navi Anticipointment Journey.

This is pretty much my point. The ride has undeniable flaws, but there's still a lot of good there. It's a much better effort, even with that abrupt ending, than many other relatively recent rides. Disappointing finish, but the build-up and the elaborate details are good enough to still make it a worthwhile part of the park as long as you don't waste an hour or more waiting in line for it.

 

[Askimosita]

Do we have a new thread yet?

 

[tirian]

Yeah, back in the day, they had those lifetime soda refill mugs.

Shut Pandora’s Box! Shut the lid!

 

[LSLS]

I’ll type slower so you can follow along - you called NRJ a “C ticket” attraction (same as the ones I listed). I’m asking you what an appropriate amount of money Disney should spend on a “C ticket” attraction to understand if what WDI actually produced is comparable to the investment. I think NRJ is an abysmal failure in execution, return on investment, repeatability, and concept, but hey, if you like it....

If you want to make a "tall Pygmy" argument that another ride is worse, then it says a lot about the strength of your initial argument.

I'll admit trying to follow this hasnt been the easiest, but wasn't his initial argument exactly that? Simply that its not that bad when you compare it to others?

Eh, ill admit I kind of enjoyed it. I'll also admit I went once, and didn't really pay a lot of attention to the story, just kind of enjoyed the ambiance of it. I'll also admit that as long as there are 100 minute waits and its a tier 1 fast pass i probably wont be riding it again (especially since i dont have a huge desire to get back to WDW in general at this point).

 

[peter11435]

The state of WDI in 2020 in one sentence:

"It's not that bad when you compare it to others."

Yeah... rise of the resistance, flight of passage, mystic manor, Shanghai pirates, radiator springs racers, runaway railway are all “not that bad.”

 

[Brer Panther]

First of all, the current Figment is a completely different character compared to his original personality (charming, curious, and fun loving)!

This is the Figment we know and love!

This Figment is an imposter! #NotMyFigment

Nah, it's the same Figment. He's just lashing out at Dr. Nigel Channing because he hated the second version of the ride as much as everyone else did. And as far as Bugs Bunny-ish characters go, he's pretty tame.

 

[UNCgolf]

I'll admit trying to follow this hasnt been the easiest, but wasn't his initial argument exactly that? Simply that its not that bad when you compare it to others?

Eh, ill admit I kind of enjoyed it. I'll also admit I went once, and didn't really pay a lot of attention to the story, just kind of enjoyed the ambiance of it. I'll also admit that as long as there are 100 minute waits and its a tier 1 fast pass i probably wont be riding it again (especially since i dont have a huge desire to get back to WDW in general at this point).

My initial argument was really more that the ride itself is incredibly well designed up until the point where it abruptly ends. That's a gigantic flaw and the reason the ride isn't remotely close to being a crown jewel attraction -- as someone else said, it's two-thirds of a really good ride. But Disney should be building more rides with that kind of elaborate, detailed theming where you actually feel transported to another place, and less where you feel like you're in a giant empty space. I don't want Disney to build rides exactly like NRJ because they need to fix the ending, but it would be a starting point. It's vastly preferable to building more rides like the Little Mermaid.

The ambiance, as you said, is the impressive part and what's missing from a lot of other rides in the same relative time frame. They seem to be doing better now, though.

 

[flynnibus]

Also, the second part of your post is hilariously ironic considering you've been defending Little Mermaid, which apparently cost roughly $150 million to produce one of the cheapest looking (and worst) attractions in Disney history.

You need a wider reference base clearly

What you've praised about NRJ pretty much means it would have made a great Rainforest Cafe.

 

[UNCgolf]

I’ll type slower so you can follow along - you called NRJ a “C ticket” attraction (same as the ones I listed). I’m asking you what an appropriate amount of money Disney should spend on a “C ticket” attraction to understand if what WDI actually produced is comparable to the investment. I think NRJ is an abysmal failure in execution, return on investment, repeatability, and concept, but hey, if you like it....

If you want to make a "tall Pygmy" argument that another ride is worse, then it says a lot about the strength of your initial argument.

And I will never understand this "it's 2/3 of good ride" concept - uh, well since I can't ride the complete ride you've created in your imagination and can only judge it by what it actually is - it is an incomplete (by your own admission) misfire and embarrassment. So it's 100% of an incomplete mess.

This is the last time I'm going to respond because I think we've discussed NRJ far more than necessary for what it is, but quick answers:

The C ticket designation is Disney's internal classification, not my personal opinion. I don't really care about the amount of money they spent on it unless it's absurdly out of line with what was built. NRJ is a much better ride, even with it's problems, than some of the C tickets you mentioned, so I have no problem with it costing more.

As for the 2/3 of a good ride, that matters because of the reason it's 2/3 of a good ride. There are a ton of quality elements involved in NRJ, which is not the case for other rides mentioned like Little Mermaid. It's possible, at least for me, to enjoy those elements while acknowledging the ride as a whole is seriously flawed.

I'm not calling NRJ a masterpiece, because it isn't. But it has great ambiance and detailing and makes you feel like you've been transported to another place. That is vastly preferable to some of the empty warehouse rides they were also producing in the same time frame, like the aforementioned Little Mermaid and Frozen Ever After.

I just would like Disney to continue building rides where that is one of the main focuses rather than being an afterthought. It's not that NRJ itself is some crown jewel attraction (it definitely is not when taken as a whole); it's more that it's a partial proof of concept of what Disney should be doing.

 

[UNCgolf]

You need a wider reference base clearly

What you've praised about NRJ pretty much means it would have made a great Rainforest Cafe.

Well I really wanted to stop posting about NRJ.

Wider reference base with regards to what? Worst Disney attractions? There are very few worse than Little Mermaid, especially when considering how much money they spent on it. But it's just a terrible ride basically from start to finish even if had been constructed cheaply.

NRJ is far more elaborately detailed than the Rainforest Cafe; there's no comparison between them. But I also think that type of elaborate detailing is one of the more important parts of a Disney dark ride (which is probably why I think FEA is so bad), and if that doesn't matter as much to you, it makes sense that you wouldn't see anything to praise about NRJ. I'm mostly comparing it to other similar rides built in the same time frame and it's generally much better overall, even with its issues.

Although, since you mentioned it, if they'd taken the really well done theming of NRJ and used it for a table service restaurant, that may have been better. That way you'd still have that great detailing with interesting stuff all around you without having to deal with the abrupt, disappointing failure of an ending.

 

[MisterPenguin]

I'm more of a Bonine or Dramamine guy myself... but I pretty much reserve those for air-travel.

Bonine is a brand name for meclizine.

 

[scpergj]

Bonine is a brand name for meclizine.

This is what I take for the better rides or I’d be a dizzy mess...

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Woah...a knockdown dragout over na’vi...don’t see that everyday

Yeah... rise of the resistance, flight of passage, mystic manor, Shanghai pirates, radiator springs racers, runaway railway are all “not that bad.”

I see your point...but it’s also a bit of a cherry pick, isn’t it?

And I’m not blaming WDI specifically...but there is management missteps, some fails on rides and budgets blown to smithereens all over the place.

You know that it’s not all homers.

 

[Ldno]

I’m just curious what happened to the saved ”new” thread that was supposed to be posted

 

[UNCgolf]

Woah...a knockdown dragout over na’vi...don’t see that everyday

Definitely wasn't expecting to get into such a long discussion over what is an overall mediocre attraction.

 

[peter11435]

I see your point...but it’s also a bit of a cherry pick, isn’t it?

Hasn't it always been though? It’s not like every attraction built in the 50’s 60’s 70’s etc was a winner either. Obviously the pirates of the Caribbean’s and haunted mansions were exemplary and lasted through the test of time. But there’s countless others that weren’t on their level and have been replaced and forgotten. We judge the present rostr of new attractions based on its collective whole, we judge the past based on those that stood the test of time and further through a lens of nostalgia.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Definitely wasn't expecting to get into such a long discussion over what is an overall mediocre attraction.

...slow news day.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Hasn't it always been though? It’s not like every attraction built in the 50’s 60’s 70’s etc was a winner either. Obviously the pirates of the Caribbean’s and haunted mansions were exemplary and lasted through the test of time. But there’s countless others that weren’t on their level and have been replaced and forgotten. We judge the present rostr of new attractions based on its collective whole, we judge the past based on those that stood the test of time and further through a lens of nostalgia.

Perhaps...but you got a list over 10 years...only 3 stateside. You know the variables are different in Asia too...different dynamic with WDI.

jury is out on Mickey, is it not?

Also...the new crown jewel is good...but will need a major IP overhaul in the not too distant future.

 

[peter11435]

Perhaps...but you got a list over 10 years...only 3 stateside. You know the variables are different in Asia too...different dynamic with WDI.

jury is out on Mickey, is it not?

Also...the new crown jewel is good...but will need a major IP overhaul in the not too distant future.

My list wasn’t complete, there are others I would put on that list.

Having experienced Mickey several times I can say It more than qualifies and based on guest feedback the vast majority agree.

As for rise, I think the jury IS still out on that IP change.

 

[UNCgolf]

As for rise, I think the jury IS still out on that IP change.

I think they need to figure out how to get it operating efficiently before they worry about changing anything else.

Although I suppose if they needed to shut down for a bit to make changes for A, they could do B at the same time.