Brer Oswald
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Oh no, say it ain't so, Joe..
- Thread starter LiterallyNobody
- Start date
And the number of times THOSE sites are referenced here is high as well. Often in the way of "over at that site we don't like and its crappy they're reporting this" and then everyone around here jumps in "yeah crappy site" and proceeds to dedicated pages to discussing what they just learned from the crappy site.
yensidtlaw1969
Well-Known Member
I know I'm pulling from further back in the thread (Still catching up and I'm sure posts from the last few days have been interesting) - but it's worth mentioning that the difference with Liberty Square's progression around the River is that you don't *have* to know this to make sense of the Liberty Square experience. The land is still perfectly coherent and enjoyable without knowing about the "geography". It's a wonderful detail, but it's not a missing piece. With Buena Vista Street it's a little different because the situation doesn't fully explain itself in a way that can negatively impact the guest experience. If a detail is so important that missing it affects guests ability to understand what you're doing, it's not a detail, it's a foundational point and needs to be made very clear.
Now back to your previously scheduled thread - I'll be up to speed shortly!
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yensidtlaw1969
Well-Known Member
You know? This thread's recent posts aren't as wild as I expected them to be. I'm almost disappointed.
Well, in a larger sense I suppose I AM disappointed. But Joe's retirement is certainly well-earned and I wish him the very best.
Well, in a larger sense I suppose I AM disappointed. But Joe's retirement is certainly well-earned and I wish him the very best.
Disneyson
Well-Known Member
I suppose to each their own, but I don’t find Buena Vista Street’s enjoyment is diminished not knowing this TBH - kinda like how I don’t think Disney Springs is spoiled without secret story knowledge? But I mean different people get immersion broken by different things, I suppose. For me it’s broken effects and Tomorrowland Terrace’s smooth walls, things like that.
yensidtlaw1969
Well-Known Member
Oh broken effects and poor execution break immersion too - but have you EVER seen anyone stop to ask why the architecture of the buildings in Liberty Square evolves the way it does? Meanwhile, this topic came up literally because people were trying to make sense of how Disney's Characters fit in with the story of Buena Vista Street being representative of the period when Walt first arrived in CA . . . do you see the difference?
JoeCamel
Well-Known Member
I think the back story and overall theme adds to the whole. Sure you can sell a book report but it has no depth. A thesis on the same subject tells all the nuance and color a "real" place would have. Not knowing the story does not detract from the experience but if you do the experience is fleshed out and more enjoyable.
yensidtlaw1969
Well-Known Member
Who said anything about a book report?
The issue isn't people not knowing the story - it's Disney telling the story without any follow-through. If this is the California Walt Disney met when he stepped off the train, then why are Oswald and Clarabelle built into the finishings? That doesn't make the story or the place any more "real". They're not quiet about what the story is *supposed* to be, but the place as built contradicts it. That's not a Thesis. That makes a themed environment harder to enjoy - whether you know the story or not, if contradictions keep you from being able to deduce a coherent idea then something is missing.
Liberty Square doesn't have that problem. Liberty Square is enjoyable whether you know the story or not - Buena Vista street is less effective at this.
JoeCamel
Well-Known Member
IT is the difference between a child's tale where they only look at what is told to them opposed to a novel where you have all the backstory and filler to provide all color a thinking person can imagine
I know which I prefer to read.
I think we are saying the same thing.
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JoeCamel
Well-Known Member
Its over 100 years old and in common usage, probably would not be approved for trademark
"Say it ain't so, Joe." - a phrase attributed to Chicago Daily News reporter Charley Owens in reference to baseball player Shoeless Joe Jackson's admission that he cheated in the 1919 World Series"
Sort of my point.
The Empress Lilly
Well-Known Member
So annoying when that happens. People just don't read carefully anymore.
yensidtlaw1969
Well-Known Member
Your metaphor is weird and a little over-simplistic
A better metaphor would be to say Liberty Square is a novel that has some rich subtext that is adds a new layer to the book when you read it again, but missing that subtext never impacts the reader's ability to follow the story.
Buena Vista Street is a novel that tells you on the back cover that it's set in 1920's, but then features events of the 1930's without ever explaining to the reader that or why there has been a jump in time from the established period - and you know it's not some sort of expressionist exercise on the part of the author.
There's a difference between subplots and plot holes - one is an asset, the other a liability.
Jrb1979
Well-Known Member
I have also noticed that when things from here get posted other places the majority seem to dismiss it.
TrainsOfDisney
Well-Known Member
Why did Walt design Main Street with a fantasyland castle at the end of it?
Animaniac93-98
Well-Known Member
The castle is based on a real one that started its construction in the 1860s, like the rest of the buildings on Main Street. It's situated at the end of the street, like major civic structures would have been at the time (many of which also had gothic revival design).
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
Neuschwanstein is more Romanesque Revival than Gothic Revival. It’s specific style is not really important to its play on hierarchy and organization typical of American towns. There was no one dominate style for such civic structures, varying with time, place and institution. Where the style comes in is that by not being a true medieval castle it uses a language that is similar to the one in use on Main Street, USA creating a harmony instead of a discordance.
Animaniac93-98
Well-Known Member
There are also many examples of "castles" in the USA and Canada. After looking at pictures of these, it's not hard to imagine some wealthy, eccentric socialite building something like Cinderella Castle or Sleeping Beauty Castle:
We think of the Disney park castles in the USA as "fantasy" structures because they're named after Disney cartoons and are placed in a section of the park literally called "Fantasyland", but their architectural style and design logic are very much rooted in real life examples.
We think of the Disney park castles in the USA as "fantasy" structures because they're named after Disney cartoons and are placed in a section of the park literally called "Fantasyland", but their architectural style and design logic are very much rooted in real life examples.
TrainsOfDisney
Well-Known Member
Interesting. When I think of “Main Street USA” I never think of castles.
It could be a stretch that it’s a castle in a park, similar to the one in Central Park. That would explain the Carousel as well.
It could be a stretch that it’s a castle in a park, similar to the one in Central Park. That would explain the Carousel as well.