raven
Well-Known Member
Even first times know what used to be there. TV, friends & relatives, seeing buildings over the walls etc. it's not exactly top secret.
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no news is just NO NEWS..
- Thread starter bjlc57
- Start date
raven
Well-Known Member
You'd be surprised.
21stamps
Well-Known Member
Ok..but they obviously also know that it isn't there now, yet still choose to go.
I made a TON of mistakes on my first trip as a mother. A Ton. Mostly bc I have never mapped out a day hour by hour at WDW, and have always had a wonderful time. Can't do that with kids..and on top of that I booked way too many character meals- they completely dictated our days. So all of the hiccups during my trip were completely self inflicted.
I learned a lesson, and am much better prepared this time.
raven
Well-Known Member
While I love planning any vacation (which is 1/2 the fun for me) I've also learned that my time was constructed by my very own over-planning. That being said, I love but also hate the fact that you almost have to plan most of your time at Disney months ahead of time or you will miss a lot of opportunities. A friend of mine is in the middle of planning her mid March spring break trip and is so stressed out trying to plan her week with her husband and 3 kids. Again, she's 6 month away from her vacation and is in a panic over the choices she feels she has to make now about her trip in order to do everything. It's just sad that that is the new normal now for planning a WDW trip.
we start planning a year in advance.. and that will be march , april, may, this coming year. .for one .. if you want to buy points for say a vacation club resort .. those have to be in place many many months ahead of time.. and that is a consideration on the next trip.. but contrary to the koolaid drinkers here.. Disney used to brag about how fast and HOW NEW the parks were since the last time you visited. you don't hear that stuff now.. and Disney is sitting on a mountain of money.. meaning that they could easily spend the money and get stuff done now instead of waiting and waxing away until the next fiscal cycle.. Walt was't about money.. he was about DREAMS>. and MAKING A DREAM HAPPEN.. but the current Disney management has lost all their dreams in some bean counters purse.. and yes the attendance and the parks are down.. but Disney would rather give you one have cents worth of sugar in a big hunk of cotton candy and then tell you how much you are saving and how much you are getting. cotton candy looks big but it costs next to nothing.. and its all fluff..
Matt_Black
Well-Known Member
Sonic Sunglasses
Well-Known Member
As a writer, I'm not going to be derisive about your statement. But, truth be told, it is a bit naive. Was Walt a storyteller? Without question. The story mattered to him, and it had to be told right. Even if it had to be "fixed", which he did quite successfully with old fairy tales that ended in twisted and macabre ways. But as a shrewd businessman, he knew how to monetise said stories. That made his enterprise not just a source of stories, but a seller of dreams. And anyone who sells anything wants to make a profit. If that wasn't true, he never would have issued an apology for the initial commercial failure of "Fantasia". Investors were unhappy, and he stepped up and shouldered the blame. Then he went on to make up for it in a spectacular way.
Stories. Dreams. The people who weave them need to eat, too. Some eke out a living (I'm still waiting on that one), some manage to build an empire (Walt Disney, Steven King, J.K. Rowling, etc). But yeah, money is part of the equation. A lot of time and effort and sacrifice goes into those stories, those dreams, those worlds you love to get lost in. Fair compensation is not too much to ask.
Was Walt Disney concerned with making a profit? Of course. And he was committed to the integrity and quality of the stories that are told by his company, his people. The two aren't mutually exclusive. They weren't then, they aren't now.
I challenge you to read.. "Be Like Walt".. and then come and tell me that he was about money.. and his quote that there will always be 10 Cent coffee at Disney Land. Walt was the idea person.. his brother and others were the money people.. but Walt was about Dreams and Ideas.. make a living yes.. But bring a Dream together was Walts job.. That's why we sing Wish Upon a Star.. and why Jiminy Cricket was always with Walt.. Not Mickey.. The Cricket.. do the right things.. and Dream big.. Do it in the right way.. not dishonest.. and DREAM BIG..
21stamps
Well-Known Member
There is nothing dishonest about turning a profit. I don't understand why people have such a difficult time grasping that concept.
Tiki Queen of Outer Space
Well-Known Member
copcarguyp71
Well-Known Member
Where does that quoted passage say anything about profit being dishonest? I think the issue people take (who have issues) is that with increasing park admission along with everything else they feel less ROI for their vacation dollar at WDW. That coupled with people being unable to capture that magic they used to feel at the parks makes people wish more reinvestment in pixie dust was being done and less on things like MM+. People have differing opinions and this is an internet forum where we are free to express them....why is that such a difficult concept to grasp?
Bacon
Well-Known Member
FTFY
21stamps
Well-Known Member
I know that it's a popular phrase on these type of forums.. But using the term "ROI" when talking about a vacation always makes me chuckle and cringe a bit.
I will just agree to disagree with all of it. What I will say, again, is that if a person does have those feelings that you described..then they should definitely spend their money on a different vacation.
I want to APOLOGIZE ..profusely.. I wrote my last post on my way to work. and it came out like I was saying the current management is dishonest or doing something dishonest.. please let me clarify.. 6 day a week Walt or some one from Disney came into my house.. preaching to me about how to do things right and in the right way.. and that's what I was saying.. Daily on the Mickey Mouse club we were taught to respect our elders and others ..and to always be honest and truthful and live a good life.. and on Sundays on NBC. on the Wonderful World of Color Walt would re emphasis these items.. and all I was saying is that unlike other business people.. Walt always tried to DO IT RIGHT.. and he was for the everyday person.. and if my statement is wrong or offended any one I am sorry.. and I couldn't change it until now.. but again.. Walt's influence.. you make a mistake.. you admit that you are wrong.. and apologize..
WEDwaydatamover
Well-Known Member
bjlc57- I like where your heart is, but don't tell the pseudonym real estate companies that were set up to buy WDW for pennies on the dollar in cognito that!
By the way... Walt and Roy approved of this deception. There are even windows on Main Street devoted to their slickery.
I have no dog in the fight only chiming in.
The Neverland BoyZ won't be happy about my posting this. No ma'am.
By the way... Walt and Roy approved of this deception. There are even windows on Main Street devoted to their slickery.
I have no dog in the fight only chiming in.
The Neverland BoyZ won't be happy about my posting this. No ma'am.
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Matt_Black
Well-Known Member
He never apologized for The Monkey's Uncle!
Sonic Sunglasses
Well-Known Member
Where is any of that incompatible or contradictory to what I said? He was a storyteller and a businessman. His stock and trade were tales that touch your heart and spark your imagination. And that made money leave your wallet. That's not a bad thing. That isn't an evil concept. Stories are a commodity in the end. And every commodity has a price. It's not a difficult concept to grasp if you're willing to toss away the rose-coloured glasses.
William Shakespeare had patrons who paid him to write plays. Edgar Allen Poe sold his stories and poems to publishers. Sir Arthur Conan Doyle sold his works, as have Steven King and J.K. Rowling. None of them are people I would consider money-grubbing or in any way sinister. Yet they all cared or care deeply about how how their work is received and enjoyed.
I am not saying Walt Disney was a bad or unscrupulous man. Far from it. He was brilliant, with a heart of gold and an honest desire to make people happy. But he knew the stories he told and they innovative way he told them were worth money. Was he ever right.
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Goofyernmost
Well-Known Member
It's more a situation where folks are unable to understand that Walt made his money preaching the good, upright and wonderful possibilities of life. Profit was part of the need or that message would not be able to be told. It is what he did for a living. There wasn't any bad thing involved with it, but , you can bet your bottom dollar that he would have taken advantage of the popularity of Disneyland, if it had the kind of draw that they have now. Even EPCOT was going to be a profit base... somebody had to pay for it, and no bank would have backed him if they thought it was charity. Walt couldn't charge the prices that they do now for many reasons. One people didn't make much money back then. Two, transportation was not available to the degree it is now. Three, coffee was cheap and you can bet that in anyones world the promise of 10 cents a cup would have been cancelled out really quick. Walt had his own business method, part of which was, do it right. At the time what he did was the way to success, however, that is no longer how things are done. I can tell you that I'm pretty sure that far more people were unable to afford to visit Disneyland per capita, then are unable today. That tells us something.
We all got many positive messages from Walt's organization. That doesn't mean that we shouldn't understand that he didn't have a money tree in the back yard. He had to finance those wonderful things one way or the other. Today, our ability to make more money, the fact that we have more disposable income then we once had (also more credit) is why it cost as much as it does, no matter how many people try and convince us that Disney is just greedy. Business as a whole has some major "habits" that didn't exist back then, but, we can't say that it is a Disney exclusive, it just is what it is. If we still get good entertainment from what is offered, then we might want to complain about how expensive it is, but, no one has a gun to our head forcing us to pay anything for that entertainment. Something that we all can live without. It's a nice thing, but, it isn't essential to life.
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Sonic Sunglasses
Well-Known Member
And I want to apologise for missing this post before I replied to your reply to my post. Dizzy yet?
I know what you're saying. I grew up glued to the telly with the Mouseketeers nearly every day and the Wonderful World of Colour every Sunday night. How I lived for those Sunday night nuggets of wonder and lightness. It's something sorely lacking in our world today. A fatherly voice telling us everything is going to be OK, and that chasing your dream is a valuable thing to do. And that our dreams can make everything better. He was right, you know. We have to keep dreaming. We need our dreams. Because no one can take those from us. Not ever. Not unless you let them.
Don't you dare let them.
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Jon81uk
Well-Known Member
Check the rivers of light thread, almost everyone thinks it will open before Christmas, and very likely before thanksgiving.