NO MORE AP PAYMENT PLAN?

[Earl Sweatpants]

Yes you are. Get a fastpass and have a friend get in line when you enter the line. Guarantee that you will get on the ride before they do. And also the person who got in line 10 minutes before your return time. And the person in front of them. You are preventing an hour's worth of guests from getting on before you do.

I don't think we're on the same frequency here, haha. That's not what I'm talking about. Obviously the fastpass line is shorter once you're in it and your friend is in standby. I'm talking about when you get a fastpass at 1pm with a return time of between 7-8. You're "digital" representation isn't preventing people from riding it ahead of you for 6 hours. It becomes more like a dinner reservation at that point.

 

[Professortango1]

I don't think we're on the same frequency here, haha. That's not what I'm talking about. Obviously the fastpass line is shorter once you're in it and your friend is in standby. I'm talking about when you get a fastpass at 1pm with a return time of between 7-8. You're "digital" representation isn't preventing people from riding it ahead of you for 6 hours. It becomes more like a dinner reservation at that point.

Well, obviously. You are preventing people from riding ahead of you for the wait time when you ride. If RSR has a wait time of 2 hours, you are preventing 2 hours worth of people from riding ahead of you when you return. If the line is 40 minutes, you are preventing 40 minutes worth of people from riding ahead of you. And then you are also making other areas of the park more crowded in that same time period as the wait time. So, skipping a 2 hour wait, you're making the park one person more crowded for 2 hours.

 

[Earl Sweatpants]

Well, obviously. You are preventing people from riding ahead of you for the wait time when you ride. If RSR has a wait time of 2 hours, you are preventing 2 hours worth of people from riding ahead of you when you return. If the line is 40 minutes, you are preventing 40 minutes worth of people from riding ahead of you. And then you are also making other areas of the park more crowded in that same time period as the wait time. So, skipping a 2 hour wait, you're making the park one person more crowded for 2 hours.

Which is maybe 5-10 minutes? Hardly noticed by the standby-er.

All this just brings us back to my original question of, wouldn't eliminating the fast-pass system create shorter standby times overall? Clearly to Disney there is no problem with the current system, and in fact they only seem to want to add more FP to attractions, MaxPass, etc.

 

[Deleted member 107043]

Fastpass gives duplicates you for a time. You are currently waiting in line digitally for Indiana Jones with your fastpass. Instead of being in that queue for the 60 minutes it is listed as, you're waiting 20 minutes for Alice in Wonderland, 10 minutes for Tea Cups, taking up space in The Mad Hatter, and then using a table at Village Haus. You've affected 4 different parts of the park while still in line for Indy and making that line 60 minutes long. Now, cut out the 20 minutes worth of fastpass guests, and the ride now has a 40 minute wait. Or, if those 20 minutes worth of guests all still decide to ride Indy, that means the other areas of the park will not be affected while they are housed in that attraction.

OK, I get it now.

 

[Professortango1]

Which is maybe 5-10 minutes? Hardly noticed by the standby-er.

All this just brings us back to my original question of, wouldn't eliminating the fast-pass system create shorter standby times overall? Clearly to Disney there is no problem with the current system, and in fact they only seem to want to add more FP to attractions, MaxPass, etc.

If the line is only 5-10 minutes long, the CM's aren't collecting Fastpasses and you all wait standby. Or if you're talking about the fact your make the line 5 minutes longer, then true. But 5 minutes multiplied by how many fastpass guests per hour? That does become noticeable.

And Disney is looking to keep fastpass, but reign it in a bit. Fastpass is great for management because it gets people out of lines and into stores and restaurants. While people kill time, they are more likely to spend money. By creating a pay to play app, they are hoping to reduce fastpasses, opening up walkways and shortening wait times, while also generating revenue with the cost associated. If these passes are also provided free of charge to hotel guests, which I'm sure they will be, it adds value to staying on property and brings Disney more money.

 

[Earl Sweatpants]

If the line is only 5-10 minutes long, the CM's aren't collecting Fastpasses and you all wait standby. Or if you're talking about the fact your make the line 5 minutes longer, then true. But 5 minutes multiplied by how many fastpass guests per hour? That does become noticeable.

And Disney is looking to keep fastpass, but reign it in a bit. Fastpass is great for management because it gets people out of lines and into stores and restaurants. While people kill time, they are more likely to spend money. By creating a pay to play app, they are hoping to reduce fastpasses, opening up walkways and shortening wait times, while also generating revenue with the cost associated. If these passes are also provided free of charge to hotel guests, which I'm sure they will be, it adds value to staying on property and brings Disney more money.

5-10 minutes of Fastpass line.

I know its rudimentary, but on Buzz they let the standby line go until a FP group shows up, then they halt the standby line until the maybe 5-6 people go through then its back to business as usual. Standby times factor in the time it takes FP people to go through also, so if you see a 30 minute wait time, its not "30 minutes + added FP times".

 

[Deleted member 107043]

I still think APs and promotions have had more of a negative impact on attendance and overcrowding than FP alone has. FP only aggravates the capacity issue as crowds have grown.

 

[Earl Sweatpants]

I still think APs and promotions have had more of a negative impact on attendance and overcrowding than FP alone has. FP only aggravates the capacity issue as crowds have grown.

I agree. I'm not sure how we got off on this tangent, but FP itself doesn't determine how many people they let through the turnstiles each day. It just impacts where those people are distributed throughout the park.

 

[Professortango1]

5-10 minutes of Fastpass line.

I know its rudimentary, but on Buzz they let the standby line go until a FP group shows up, then they halt the standby line until the maybe 5-6 people go through then its back to business as usual. Standby times factor in the time it takes FP people to go through also, so if you see a 30 minute wait time, its not "30 minutes + added FP times".

Yes, they do the math when taking fastpass into account of wait times. But if an attraction has a 2 hour wait, you are increasing wait times elsewhere for a two hour span. You are also preventing people from riding ahead of you for 2 hours. The impact you have is dependent upon the wait time of the attraction you're jumping to the front of. Usually, that's 40-75 minutes.

 

[Earl Sweatpants]

Yes, they do the math when taking fastpass into account of wait times. But if an attraction has a 2 hour wait, you are increasing wait times elsewhere for a two hour span. You are also preventing people from riding ahead of you for 2 hours. The impact you have is dependent upon the wait time of the attraction you're jumping to the front of. Usually, that's 40-75 minutes.

Look, I mean no offense here but I'm finding this whole discussion to be a bit circular and pointless. Either you wanna use FP or you don't. Personally, I never use them (save for maybe WOC).

The point remains though that Fastpasses on their own do not increase the amount of people who are allowed into a park every day. AP's and other promotions do that.

 

[Professortango1]

Look, I mean no offense here but I'm finding this whole discussion to be a bit circular and pointless. Either you wanna use FP or you don't. Personally, I never use them (save for maybe WOC).

The point remains though that Fastpasses on their own do not increase the amount of people who are allowed into a park every day. AP's and other promotions do that.

Correct, fasptass just amplifies crowd by creating digital versions of guests throughout the park.

 

[Phroobar]

You guys plan these fights every day don't you?

 

[Earl Sweatpants]

You guys plan these fights every day don't you?

slow days at work.
Also I don't like the term "fight". I prefer to think of them as robust dialogues.

 

[Phroobar]

It's kind of like this>

 

[Antaundra]

Correct, fasptass just amplifies crowd by creating digital versions of guests throughout the park.

Do you remember the park before fast pass? Those lines were miserable. I remember waiting hours for Space Mountain. First you'd wait out in the sun getting hot and sweaty then you'd be crammed into those claustrophobic, poorly air conditioned hall ways that smelled like bad breath and BO. Walking through the amazingly themed Indy que is impressive now, but back when we waited in there for hours the noise of so many people talking, combined with the dim lights gave me a migraine before being bounced all over on the ride. It was awful. There are lines I don't mind waiting in. I have no problem waiting for Splash Mountain or Big Thunder. The fact that fast pass allows me the opportunity to pick what lines I'm willing to wait in makes the park 100% better in my opinion.

 

[Curious Constance]

I hear you and where you're coming from and I completely understand your sentiments of wanting to get the most out of your heavy investment via less-crowded parks and more enjoyable experiences. You definitely should get your money's worth.

But I think some caution needs to be displayed because this can very easily turn into a "who actually deserves to enjoy Disneyland more" debate and (though I hesitate to even say it) I don't think that was Walt's intention when he created the parks.

It doesn't have to turn into that at all. It simply is what it is. No one deserves Disneyland anymore than anyone else. It's like everything else in life. Some can afford it more than others. And as Disney isn't a charity, they get to decide who they want to cater to more.

But as someone who only goes once a year-3 years, when I do go and can't even find a spot to watch a parade or fireworks because 30,000 local people decide it's worth their time to wait 5 hours for something they've seen 50+ times, it's quite annoying. Just like I'm sure the APs will find it annoying if they are some how kept from going to the parks as often as they'd like to.

Now all Disney has to do is decide who makes more financial sense to annoy.

 

[Professortango1]

Do you remember the park before fast pass? Those lines were miserable. I remember waiting hours for Space Mountain. First you'd wait out in the sun getting hot and sweaty then you'd be crammed into those claustrophobic, poorly air conditioned hall ways that smelled like bad breath and BO. Walking through the amazingly themed Indy que is impressive now, but back when we waited in there for hours the noise of so many people talking, combined with the dim lights gave me a migraine before being bounced all over on the ride. It was awful. There are lines I don't mind waiting in. I have no problem waiting for Splash Mountain or Big Thunder. The fact that fast pass allows me the opportunity to pick what lines I'm willing to wait in makes the park 100% better in my opinion.

Well, with Fastpass, you often spend more time waiting in the sun. Space Mountain keeps the standby line queued up outside on the platform until the interior line dies down. Same with Indy. Rather than taking in the details in the shade and AC, we are kept outside and then rushed through themed queues. You wouldn't be able to decode the writing on Indy's queue today with how they pace the line. And the lines stay roughly the same length. Most E-tickets top out around 75 minutes. Without fastpass, the lines wouldn't be any longer than that, they might be actually shorter. The lines for smaller attractions would certainly be shorter as many Fastpass users will hit smaller attractions around their fast pass return time.

I say keep the Fastpass, but charge $30 per person to use it. If it's important to you, you'll buy it. If it isn't, you won't. Comes free with hotel stays or one day free if you buy a multi-day ticket. The add on is focused on day visitors and AP's.

 

[JD2000]

Well, with Fastpass, you often spend more time waiting in the sun. Space Mountain keeps the standby line queued up outside on the platform until the interior line dies down. Same with Indy. Rather than taking in the details in the shade and AC, we are kept outside and then rushed through themed queues. You wouldn't be able to decode the writing on Indy's queue today with how they pace the line. And the lines stay roughly the same length. Most E-tickets top out around 75 minutes. Without fastpass, the lines wouldn't be any longer than that, they might be actually shorter. The lines for smaller attractions would certainly be shorter as many Fastpass users will hit smaller attractions around their fast pass return time.

I say keep the Fastpass, but charge $30 per person to use it. If it's important to you, you'll buy it. If it isn't, you won't. Comes free with hotel stays or one day free if you buy a multi-day ticket. The add on is focused on day visitors and AP's.

We noticed this during our last trip. We thought it was really dumb.

And didn't the fastpass queue for Indy once merge right after the preshow film? I am really curious about this.

I would personally like to see fastpass completely removed from the parks; or at the very least, as you suggested, become a reasonably priced upcharge, but that everyone (including hotel guests, etc) must purchase if they so choose.

 

[Phroobar]

The park would be a better place if fast passes were only give out to hotel guests at a price of course. That puts everyone else in standby. Less people in fast pass means the standby line moves faster. It can't be a 90/10 stop light like a lot of cast members make it.

 

[Deleted member 107043]

Just give us My Magic+ at Disneyland and be done with it already.