New Park

[Favrefire4]

Can anyone tell me when Disney plans on building a 5th park? What will this park include and what will the theme of it be? Where will it go and will any resorts be included with it? Thanks in advance......

 

[no2apprentice]

This rumor comes and goes, but most who seem to have good sources/inside info all agree that a 5th isn't going to happen for many years, due to the current financial situation Disney faces (not WDW, but Disney as a company). As far as the theme of a fifth park, we'll all know for sure at the Disney press release.

 

[Michael72688]

I've heard 2007, hopefully the new park has a ton of great thrill rides!!

 

[mkt]

sigh... I doubt they'll be opening a new park within this decade

 

[Main Street USA]

2007 is extremely optimistic, if not next to impossible at this point. I wish it would open that soon, but it won't.

Also, I think the absolute worst thing Disney could do for the image fo the WDW resort is build a thrill park. I DO, however, think that if it were done Disney style, i.e. not like the IOA coasters, it could be extremely successful. I don't believe they would ever spend the money to do it correctly, though. It would have to have the same level of theming and story, which includes the queue and ride, to qualify as a Disney quality park. IOA, for example, has the Hulk coaster which has virtually no story or theming except for a paint job, and dueling dragons, which has a fabulous queue, and virtually NO themeing during the ride itself.

Blah, blah blah, lets wait until we hear something I guess......

 

[Michael72688]

I guess cause of the economy it wont happen for a while

 

[MrPromey]

Originally posted by Michael72688
I guess cause of the economy it wont happen for a while

I wouldn't say just because of the economy. DIsney doesn't really need a fifth park at this juncture. The current offerings on property are already more than enough to fill the average family's week stay in Florida.

It would make a lot more sense to continue to add on to the existing parks. Adding a new park takes a tremendous amount of resources. Not only is there all the land clearing and construction, but plumbing and electrical facilities have to be added as well as transportation routes and so on. On top of that, they have to add additional staffing (particularly in the low paying customer service positions) which is becoming more and more difficult as the tourist industry in the Orlando are continues to saturate. Instead of opening a fifth park that would require ticket takers, guest relations staffing, janitorial, maintenance, and so on, it seems that it would make much more sense to simply add more attractions, shops, and restaurants to what is already there. A fifth gate would not likely bring in a lot of extra revenue because most people who are there for multiple days are using multi-park passes.

I know that I haven't done the best job of explaining myself but I hope I have been able to at least relay my point without boring everyone into a stupor.

 

[WDWFREAK53]

Originally posted by MrPromey
I wouldn't say just because of the economy. DIsney doesn't really need a fifth park at this juncture. The current offerings on property are already more than enough to fill the average family's week stay in Florida.

It would make a lot more sense to continue to add on to the existing parks. Adding a new park takes a tremendous amount of resources. Not only is there all the land clearing and construction, but plumbing and electrical facilities have to be added as well as transportation routes and so on. On top of that, they have to add additional staffing (particularly in the low paying customer service positions) which is becoming more and more difficult as the tourist industry in the Orlando are continues to saturate. Instead of opening a fifth park that would require ticket takers, guest relations staffing, janitorial, maintenance, and so on, it seems that it would make much more sense to simply add more attractions, shops, and restaurants to what is already there. A fifth gate would not likely bring in a lot of extra revenue because most people who are there for multiple days are using multi-park passes.

I know that I haven't done the best job of explaining myself but I hope I have been able to at least relay my point without boring everyone into a stupor.

I agree...there would be serious cannibalizing of the other parks if a new one came into the picture...because of the "week's vacation"

 

[no2apprentice]

Mr. P has a very valid point. But even if they expand on the current parks, it will be a tremendous cost, due to the need to move structures now existing behind park perimeters, parking lots, roads, etc. Without looking at a map, just expanding Studios would be a nightmare (if I remember correctly).

Nice to see you posting, Mr. P.

 

[MrPromey]

Originally posted by no2apprentice
Mr. P has a very valid point. But even if they expand on the current parks, it will be a tremendous cost, due to the need to move structures now existing behind park perimeters, parking lots, roads, etc. Without looking at a map, just expanding Studios would be a nightmare (if I remember correctly).

Nice to see you posting, Mr. P.

If I remember correctly from discussions that took place around here a little more than a year ago, original expansion plans for MGM involved using land that had been set aside on the other side of one of the roads that borders it... The details are a bit fuzzy now but I remember myself saying that there wasn't any room to do anything and I think that Steve actually posted an ariel view with the set aside land marked and if memory serves me, it was enough to about double the current size... (perhaps someone who knows what I'm talking about can elaborate more clearly) Epcot still has plenty of land though and so does AK and the area that goes around Tom Sawyer's Island is still free for MK... Obviously there are limits and they will eventually run out of room at the current parks but I think they are still decades away from that happening. If they were to add 1 e-ticket attraction to each park without closing anything, add 2-3 new shops/restaurants and 1-2 non e-ticket 'budget' attractions to each park over the next 2-5 years, they would effectively be adding the same amount of content to the existing parks as would be found in a brand new 5th... We are getting Mission Space in Epcot and a new E-Ticket is in the works for AK. I think new shops and restaurants are pretty much a given... All they need to do is open one new e-ticket in MGM and MK without closing anything, ( I wouldn't count the Philarmagic because the Lion King closed to be replaced) add a few of the cheap attractions that we all complain about and they are already there.

BTW, nice to be posting again!

 

[FourFourSeven]

I agree with the posts here - a fifth park makes less economic sense than adding to the current four:

-The cost is less (no additional roads, parking lots, or general infrastructure)
-The benefit is probably about the same - week long vacations will mostly see cannibalization of the current four parks for a fifth gate.

Here are my completely unsolicited and unsupported opinions:

Animal Kingdom desperately needs another E-ticket attraction and also a few more minor attractions. (And figuring out a way to make a large portion of the park appealing after sunset would help, too).

Epcot, too, needs another E-ticket, preferably in the World Showcase. Although I enjoy just strolling World Showcase, many people do not, and a few more minor to moderate "rides" there wouldn't hurt, either. Finally, there needs to be more for the preschool set there.

MGM is, in my opinion, doing okay on E-Ticket rides, but could use a little more for the younger set, as well (Playhouse Disney and the play area are nice, but it ain't Fantasyland). By the way, is there any reason they couldn't landfill some of the lagoon (where the boats from the Epcot resorts drop people off), and add some space there?

Finally, the Magic Kingdom is in great shape, IMO, but with one more E-Ticket "thrill" attraction, along with Philharmagic, I think the park would be in very strong shape.

So, I come up with two or three E-Tickets, and maybe six or seven minor to moderate rides. About the same as a fifth gate. Which makes more sense? To round out the current parks, or put 'em all in another park with all the additional infrastructure expenses? I'd vote for no fifth gate, as a Disney fan, a shareholder, or a decision-maker

 

[EchoOfOphelia]

Originally posted by MrPromey
The current offerings on property are already more than enough to fill the average family's week stay in Florida.

You know, I never even thought about it like that. When we go to Disney we are usually there for 5-7 days. Disney has got sooo much stuff to do (i.e. the 4 parks, the water parks, downtown disney, etc..) that we usually are able to cram in pretty much everything that we wanted to do, but there is still a LOT that we missed! With a 5th park, I'd need to stay longer! .... hey... what on Earth am I complaining about!

 

[MrPromey]

Originally posted by EchoOfOphelia
You know, I never even thought about it like that. When we go to Disney we are usually there for 5-7 days. Disney has got sooo much stuff to do (i.e. the 4 parks, the water parks, downtown disney, etc..) that we usually are able to cram in pretty much everything that we wanted to do, but there is still a LOT that we missed! With a 5th park, I'd need to stay longer! .... hey... what on Earth am I complaining about!

And there in lies the rub: It could be argued that Disney could try to push for more long term guests but I don't think this is a realistic option. I'm sure there are a good number of guests from across the pond that stay for two or more weeks but I would imagine that the number who do that with the intention of having a totally Disney only vacation are in the minority and I think Tramp may be the only US resident that does it for a month at a time.

When Universal first showed up on the scene and the central Florida cold war began, I'm pretty sure it was a race to stay ahead of the competition and as long as Disney was keeping those guests in a Disney park instead of loosing them to Universal, it was probably worth while but at this point, there is more DIsney (and everything else) than there ever has been in the Orlando area and even in the best of economical times, it is going to get harder to continue filling more hotel rooms and more parks. There has to be a breaking point and for the time, I think they have just about found it. I mean, with the expansion of DL,DLT, DLP and a new Hong Kong park on the way, Disney is competing with themselves on a global market. That kind of expansion alone, is going to cause international attendance at the Orlando parks to drop at least some.

Actually, beyond the parks, I think Disney needs to look into enriching the experience for guests staying in resorts. They seem to have already begun moving in this direction with the AKL and even to some degree with the Wilderness Lodge... In the future, I could see them one day moving the Tiki Room to a restaurant or lounge type place in the Polly when it comes time to use the real estate in the MK for something else...

I think the bigger push in the future will be to find ways to better enrich the experience for premium resort guests as a whole without alienating off-property guests with things like front of the line access and early entry. After all, once they have you with a length of stay pass, it doesn't really matter what you do as long as they keep you on property and finding more compelling ways for guests to spend their time in the resorts frees up space in the parks while at the same time adding more value to the resorts themselves... Just a thought, anyway.

 

[ArsonWinter]

Yeah, I happen to think that a fifth park is out of the question right now. Besides, I'd rather see some new things in the ones they have now, or Downtown Disney or even the water parks. I'd bet something big is going to happen in Downtown Disney, or at least I like to be optimistic about it. I'd like to see some kind of Walt Disney museum, with stuff transplanted from that TDS 100 YoM attraction, maybe hosted by some classic animatronics, or something. I know I'd love to see something like that.

It seems to me, overall, Disney has a few more options than a fifth park. I'd rather have them add more unique things than that.

 

[no2apprentice]

Originally posted by MrPromey
he area that goes around Tom Sawyer's Island is still free for MK

Are you referring to the area between the river and the RR track? Or beyond the RR track? Not sure what area you're talking about. Even so, if they did anything with MK on undeveloped land, without the benefit of a schematic, wouldn't they need to escavate first, to add on to the utiliodor (sp?) system? It's always been my understanding the underground complex only went under developed areas (for the most part). This would add tremendous cost to any new e-rides.

Could be way off on this, I've never really researched the underground (I know, it's really at grade level) system.

 

[MrPromey]

Originally posted by no2apprentice
Are you referring to the area between the river and the RR track? Or beyond the RR track? Not sure what area you're talking about. Even so, if they did anything with MK on undeveloped land, without the benefit of a schematic, wouldn't they need to escavate first, to add on to the utiliodor (sp?) system? It's always been my understanding the underground complex only went under developed areas (for the most part). This would add tremendous cost to any new e-rides.

Could be way off on this, I've never really researched the underground (I know, it's really at grade level) system.

They wouldn’t actually need a utilidoor area underneath any expansion to the MK, especially if the back of new structures can be backed away from the rest of the park allowing access from the rear. They have already proven with the other three parks that this kind of system while nice, is not really needed. In a perfect world, they would add them but the expansion is going to happen sooner or later and my guess would be that when it does, it will be done without the expansion of utilidoors… Incidentally, I personally feel that the MK being currently the most attraction-rich park is also the least in need of expansion but that is just my personal opinion. With it also by far, being the most visited, I suppose it is also the one that needs to have the largest available capacity…

 

[Michael72688]

Originally posted by MrPromey
They wouldn’t actually need a utilidoor area underneath any expansion to the MK, especially if the back of new structures can be backed away from the rest of the park allowing access from the rear. They have already proven with the other three parks that this kind of system while nice, is not really needed. In a perfect world, they would add them but the expansion is going to happen sooner or later and my guess would be that when it does, it will be done without the expansion of utilidoors… Incidentally, I personally feel that the MK being currently the most attraction-rich park is also the least in need of expansion but that is just my personal opinion. With it also by far, being the most visited, I suppose it is also the one that needs to have the largest available capacity…

I agree, forget MK for a little while, first gotta focus on Epcot, M:S isn't going to save it alone, the focus on AK possibly new E ride, then MGM, they've got the most and best E-ticket rides anywhere on the property!

 

[WDWFREAK53]

bump

 

[orangefan15]

Originally posted by Michael72688
I agree, forget MK for a little while, first gotta focus on Epcot, M:S isn't going to save it alone, the focus on AK possibly new E ride, then MGM, they've got the most and best E-ticket rides anywhere on the property!

Valid points. MK doesn't really need attention in terms of new rides (especially given the Mickey's PhilarMagic will be opening soon), however, I think they do need to pay attention to it in terms of general rehabs...you know, painting, small fixes, general cleaning, etc. IMO, AK is most in need of new rides, followed by MGM, then Epcot.

 

[hallowboy11]

I agree with all of what has been posted about adding on and revamping the current parks. But unfortunately, I am very pessimistic.

The problem with having so many parks, besides what was mentioned earlier about losing attendance, is that the amount of funds to update and refurbish them keeps getting smaller and smaller. And then the parks, instead of getting MUCH NEEDED make-overs throughout (i.e. ALL of Epcot), only get occasional upgrades in certain sections (i.e. Test Track & Mission Space - TofT & RnR). So then, the other parts of the parks become old, outdated, and unvisited (i.e. Living Seas, Land, UoE - Most of MGM except Sunset Blvd.)

So, is Rasolu (sp?) going to do anything more than Pressler?? Are we finally, before the decade ends, going to see BK, Star Tours 2, Indy Ride at WDW, "Shadowlands", Storm Rider, SUPERSTAR LIMO??? Doubtful.

Although Superstar Limo would be S-W-E-E-T! :hammer:
j/k