New DVC Resales Restrictions

[Ralphlaw]

Yeah, "timeshare" in the Disney sense used to be different. This latest change gives an impression that it's sliding down into the hard sells in beige windowless rooms that cause so much buyers remorse with other timeshare companies. Thanks Disney. You just smarmied up your name so your kiosk people can continue to charge outrageous prices sans guffaws.

 

[Phonedave]

I don't blame you for holding out, although it can always get worse. Buying in direct for $86/point a decade ago was a no brainer for 50 years of vacations. Even now it can make financial sense to buy. The problem is DVC is hoping this latest change will push people like you from resale to a direct purchase, but instead it might push you away completely. If this happens with enough people the resale market may start to change which will have a negative effect on us all.

Honestly, I don't believe I'd buy either right now based on recent events, either as an initial purchase or add on.

If I had not bought when I did, I do not think I would buy today.

i do not regret having bought DVC, and I think for the years that I have had it so far, it has been a benefit. but looking at the landscape going forward, I do not think it would be a wise new investment for me at this point in time.

What it really boils down to is WDW itself. Sure, DVC represents a cost savings, but when the savings price is still way above what it should be, what is the point?

I used to think that WDW was expensive, but the value was there. You got what you paid for. Now, even with DVC in the mix, the value is no longer there. Yes, you can use DVC for things other than WDW, and that is one of the reason we are cutting back on WDW - planning to do a bank and borrow for a trip to Aluani sometime and maybe a trip to Hilton Head in there too. That is about the only saving grace for my membership right now. If we didnt have those options, I don't know.

-dave

 

[Adriene KEATING]

I don't blame you for holding out, although it can always get worse. Buying in direct for $86/point a decade ago was a no brainer for 50 years of vacations. Even now it can make financial sense to buy. The problem is DVC is hoping this latest change will push people like you from resale to a direct purchase, but instead it might push you away completely. If this happens with enough people the resale market may start to change which will have a negative effect on us all.

Honestly, I don't believe I'd buy either right now based on recent events, either as an initial purchase or add on.

I am willing to take the risk that prices will rise. I was running some very rough numbers last night to see if it still makes sense for me and it just doesn't. The numbers I used are assuming I can find a contract at the boardwalk for 100 points @ $101 a point. I also added in annual maintenance fees at $7 a point, I know this is higher than the currant cost but I know they will go up so I'm using $7 for a rough estimate over the next 25 years. ( will probably be much higher)

$101x100 points = 10,100 not including closing costs ect...
$7x100= $ 700 a year & $17,500 over the 25 years left on the boardwalk contract.

Total cost of points + maintenance fees over the 25 year contract is $27,600
27,600 divided by 25 years is 1,104 a year
$1,104 divided by 100 points = $11 a point

Now I realize that the cost to rent could go up substantially but I just rented points for a week at $12 a point. Is it really worth the upfront expense to save $1 a point with no additional benefits by buying resale?

If the cost of resale goes down per point because of the new rules, I may rethink everything but at this point the savings just isn't worth the up front cost.

My numbers aren't including any interest charges from financing ( I would pay cash but if someone else was looking at my numbers as a guideline) and who knows how much maintenance dues will cost in 15 -25 years. My calculations are on $7 a point, what if in 20 years they are $20 a point?

I don't blame you for holding out, although it can always get worse. Buying in direct for $86/point a decade ago was a no brainer for 50 years of vacations. Even now it can make financial sense to buy. The problem is DVC is hoping this latest change will push people like you from resale to a direct purchase, but instead it might push you away completely. If this happens with enough people the resale market may start to change which will have a negative effect on us all.

Honestly, I don't believe I'd buy either right now based on recent events, either as an initial purchase or add on.

 

[LuvtheGoof]

I am willing to take the risk that prices will rise. I was running some very rough numbers last night to see if it still makes sense for me and it just doesn't. The numbers I used are assuming I can find a contract at the boardwalk for 100 points @ $101 a point. I also added in annual maintenance fees at $7 a point, I know this is higher than the currant cost but I know they will go up so I'm using $7 for a rough estimate over the next 25 years. ( will probably be much higher)

$101x100 points = 10,100 not including closing costs ect...
$7x100= $ 700 a year & $17,500 over the 25 years left on the boardwalk contract.

Total cost of points + maintenance fees over the 25 year contract is $27,600
27,600 divided by 25 years is 1,104 a year
$1,104 divided by 100 points = $11 a point

Now I realize that the cost to rent could go up substantially but I just rented points for a week at $12 a point. Is it really worth the upfront expense to save $1 a point with no additional benefits by buying resale?

If the cost of resale goes down per point because of the new rules, I may rethink everything but at this point the savings just isn't worth the up front cost.

My numbers aren't including any interest charges from financing ( I would pay cash but if someone else was looking at my numbers as a guideline) and who knows how much maintenance dues will cost in 15 -25 years. My calculations are on $7 a point, what if in 20 years they are $20 a point?

If you think that renting points in 15 or 20 years is going to be anywhere near $12/point still, then you would be right not to buy. To me, there is not a snowball's chance that it won't be well over $20 per point in even 10 years.

I just checked for our trip in October at a few sites. We are staying in a 2 bedroom, and it would cost us $14/point right now. Please be glad you got such a deal at $12/point, but you are still spending literally hundreds of dollars more than owning.

Oh and dues at the first resort - OKW - have gone from $2.51 to $6.01 in 25 years. BWV has gone from an initial $3.70 to $6.18 over 20 years. At that rate, your dues will be in the $10 range in 25 more years. So about $1000 per year, but at a time when a typical room will probably run about $1000 per night.

 

[Adriene KEATING]

If you think that renting points in 15 or 20 years is going to be anywhere near $12/point still, then you would be right not to buy. To me, there is not a snowball's chance that it won't be well over $20 per point in even 10 years.

I just checked for our trip in October at a few sites. We are staying in a 2 bedroom, and it would cost us $14/point right now. Please be glad you got such a deal at $12/point, but you are still spending literally hundreds of dollars more than owning.

Oh and dues at the first resort - OKW - have gone from $2.51 to $6.01 in 25 years. BWV has gone from an initial $3.70 to $6.18 over 20 years. At that rate, your dues will be in the $10 range in 25 more years. So about $1000 per year, but at a time when a typical room will probably run about $1000 per night.

You are probably 100% right on the point that the renting cost will go up substantially. Brokers are getting $14 a point and private owners are around $12. That's what they were around 7/8 months ago when I booked my easter week trip at least. I haven't really looked since I booked.
As far as dues, dvc can raise them 15% a year, I am the type to plan for the worst and hope for the best.

 

[Biff215]

I am willing to take the risk that prices will rise. I was running some very rough numbers last night to see if it still makes sense for me and it just doesn't. The numbers I used are assuming I can find a contract at the boardwalk for 100 points @ $101 a point. I also added in annual maintenance fees at $7 a point, I know this is higher than the currant cost but I know they will go up so I'm using $7 for a rough estimate over the next 25 years. ( will probably be much higher)

$101x100 points = 10,100 not including closing costs ect...
$7x100= $ 700 a year & $17,500 over the 25 years left on the boardwalk contract.

Total cost of points + maintenance fees over the 25 year contract is $27,600
27,600 divided by 25 years is 1,104 a year
$1,104 divided by 100 points = $11 a point

Now I realize that the cost to rent could go up substantially but I just rented points for a week at $12 a point. Is it really worth the upfront expense to save $1 a point with no additional benefits by buying resale?

If the cost of resale goes down per point because of the new rules, I may rethink everything but at this point the savings just isn't worth the up front cost.

My numbers aren't including any interest charges from financing ( I would pay cash but if someone else was looking at my numbers as a guideline) and who knows how much maintenance dues will cost in 15 -25 years. My calculations are on $7 a point, what if in 20 years they are $20 a point?

The main problem is looking at a 2042 contract at this point. With many resorts around the same or lower price, I'd personally go for a resort with more years remaining. I certainly understand the "buy where you want to stay" philosplophy, but I went against that and have been very fortunate.

We have stayed at SSR (our home resort) twice in ten years. We prefer BCV, AKL, and the Poly and have never had a problem, but we don't typically travel during holidays. That's why you have to make the decision based on your own situation, as it's not always a great deal for everyone.

 

[Adriene KEATING]

The main problem is looking at a 2042 contract at this point. With many resorts around the same or lower price, I'd personally go for a resort with more years remaining. I certainly understand the "buy where you want to stay" philosplophy, but I went against that and have been very fortunate.

We have stayed at SSR (our home resort) twice in ten years. We prefer BCV, AKL, and the Poly and have never had a problem, but we don't typically travel during holidays. That's why you have to make the decision based on your own situation, as it's not always a great deal for everyone.

Thank you. That is a very good point. I don't really understand why so many people dislike ssr so much, we have stayed there and really liked it. It's not my favorite but it does have the big advantage of walking to disney springs. We don't have young kids so maybe that's why. I have read in some of the forums that it is getting very had to book an entire week at the 7 month mark. We still have 2 years before we can travel at off peak ( non school vacation) times.

 

[Adriene KEATING]

The main problem is looking at a 2042 contract at this point. With many resorts around the same or lower price, I'd personally go for a resort with more years remaining. I certainly understand the "buy where you want to stay" philosplophy, but I went against that and have been very fortunate.

We have stayed at SSR (our home resort) twice in ten years. We prefer BCV, AKL, and the Poly and have never had a problem, but we don't typically travel during holidays. That's why you have to make the decision based on your own situation, as it's not always a great deal for everyone.

I reworked the same scenario using ssr as a guideline. Assuming I could find a contract with 100 points @ $90 a point. ( looks realistic to find) and still using $7 a point for MF. It really makes a big difference adding the additional years and the lower price point. I will have to do some more research to see if people are able to book at their non home resort for a week without too much of an issue. Like I said in my last post, I really don't mind staying at ssr so even if I got "stuck" there I would be happy. I would like like to experience some of the other resorts too though. Thanks again for the suggestion.

 

[GoofGoof]

As far as dues, dvc can raise them 15% a year, I am the type to plan for the worst and hope for the best.

15% is the max they can raise them in a year, but the increase must be directly related to increased costs. That's FL timeshare law. Each resort has a budget of various costs. The total expense is then divided by the number of points to get to the fee per point. Disney/DVC cannot just decide to raise fees by 15% to make extra money. All the cash in goes back out to pay actual expenses. Disney makes a profit since DVC is paying TWDC for some of the services like housekeeping, front desk and transportation but the costs still need to be justified. There is an independent audit each year of each DVC resort performed by a local accounting firm.

 

[Biff215]

I reworked the same scenario using ssr as a guideline. Assuming I could find a contract with 100 points @ $90 a point. ( looks realistic to find) and still using $7 a point for MF. It really makes a big difference adding the additional years and the lower price point. I will have to do some more research to see if people are able to book at their non home resort for a week without too much of an issue. Like I said in my last post, I really don't mind staying at ssr so even if I got "stuck" there I would be happy. I would like like to experience some of the other resorts too though. Thanks again for the suggestion.

If you're okay with staying at SSR when needed then it can't hurt to buy there. I agree it is a nice resort, we're just not fans of the condo style. Something about inside hallways connected to a main lobby that just makes me feel like I'm on vacation. We had great stays there though, no complaints about the resort itself.

We've been down to WDW twenty times in the past ten years, mostly staying on points. Not once did we not get the resort we wanted as long as we did it at seven months. We typically go in January and then the summer, so I can't speak for other times of the year. Best of luck with your decision!

 

[Seanual757]

Not sure where you get 3 years from, as our new cards don't expire until December 2021. Good for over 5 years. Maybe new members are getting cards that expire after only 3? Maybe someone that has recently purchased could let us know how long their card is good for.

When we purchased last year our cards expired in 2018 and the new blue cards that arrived in December expire on 12/31/2021.

 

[Unomas]

We've been down to WDW twenty times in the past ten years, mostly staying on points. Not once did we not get the resort we wanted as long as we did it at seven months. We typically go in January and then the summer, so I can't speak for other times of the year. Best of luck with your decision!

Biff, what has been your experience booking seven months out during the summer? When and where have you stayed? Are you booking full weeks at the same place or are you doing split stays?

I'm curious because summer is our typical travel time.

 

[LuvtheGoof]

I reworked the same scenario using ssr as a guideline. Assuming I could find a contract with 100 points @ $90 a point. ( looks realistic to find) and still using $7 a point for MF. It really makes a big difference adding the additional years and the lower price point. I will have to do some more research to see if people are able to book at their non home resort for a week without too much of an issue. Like I said in my last post, I really don't mind staying at ssr so even if I got "stuck" there I would be happy. I would like like to experience some of the other resorts too though. Thanks again for the suggestion.

We own at SSR and love it. We have had no problems with booking at 7 months for OKW, BWV, VGF, and VGC. You do have to book exactly at 7 months. Now there will be times when it is next to impossible, like trying to get BCV during Food & Wine, but it is still possible. Studios go first. Your best bet can be a 1 bedroom, since they book up last. We prefer a 1 bedroom, even with just the 2 of us. We love the extra room, kitchen, and washer & dryer in the room. Since you are still in the summer travel time, you should be OK. Good luck!

 

[Unomas]

I've heard that if you've already bought direct - adding points resale doesn't affect your status. Is that true?

 

[LuvtheGoof]

I've heard that if you've already bought direct - adding points resale doesn't affect your status. Is that true?

Yes, that is true. Actually, if you had bought resale prior to Apr. 4th, you were still good, but we don't know for sure if that will change in the future.

 

[EOD K9]

I've heard that if you've already bought direct - adding points resale doesn't affect your status. Is that true?

As someone said, its true, if Disney let it affect your status, that would truly be jacked up.

 

[DVC4bestvacations]

I used to think that WDW was expensive, but the value was there. You got what you paid for. Now, even with DVC in the mix, the value is no longer there. Yes, you can use DVC for things other than WDW, and that is one of the reason we are cutting back on WDW - planning to do a bank and borrow for a trip to Aluani sometime and maybe a trip to Hilton Head in there too. That is about the only saving grace for my membership right now. If we didnt have those options, I don't know.

Couldn't agree more.

 

[Biff215]

Biff, what has been your experience booking seven months out during the summer? When and where have you stayed? Are you booking full weeks at the same place or are you doing split stays?

I'm curious because summer is our typical travel time.

We typically travel in July and stay often at BCV, usually for 7-9 nights. We book right at 7 months but it hasn't been a problem for us. We've also done WL and AKL. Last summer we split 8 nights between Poly and BCV. Our dates don't tend to be very flexible either due to my wife's job (I'm a teacher).

We really debated on buying resale at BCV before deciding on direct SSR points which were $86/point at the time. So glad we did...lower buy in, lower maintenance fees, and 12 more years of vacations. Has worked out great for us, but everyone's situation is clearly different.

 

[PJBuckeye]

Everyone - I was wondering why the new DVC membership cards were going to carry an expiration date which made no sense because member status can be checked instantly in Disney's systems for benefit entitlement.

I love the greed of Disney's management. The following is the history of my interest in buying in (note this has been a multi-year procrastination)...

- Strongly considering buying into Poly when the Poly rumors were swirling.
- DVC jacks up the price per point... I no longer am considering buying direct (way to go Disney)
- I get close to pulling the trigger on indirect... Disney pulls the Perks... for the time being, no longer interested in buying in at all (way to go Disney)
- I get comfortable with the idea of buying resale and adding on 25 points directly to get the perks... read the 3 year limit language... interest drops again (way to go Disney)

 

[ford91exploder]

I love the greed of Disney's management. The following is the history of my interest in buying in (note this has been a multi-year procrastination)...

- Strongly considering buying into Poly when the Poly rumors were swirling.
- DVC jacks up the price per point... I no longer am considering buying direct (way to go Disney)
- I get close to pulling the trigger on indirect... Disney pulls the Perks... for the time being, no longer interested in buying in at all (way to go Disney)
- I get comfortable with the idea of buying resale and adding on 25 points directly to get the perks... read the 3 year limit language... interest drops again (way to go Disney)

Disney for some reason is being blinded by greed one reason the DVC program was so successful in the past was it's liberal transfer policies, Bad things are happening at Disney.