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New DL Resort Master Plan Possibilities

Old Mouseketeer

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
#1
With recent events and the potential reboot of the relationship between Disney and the City of Anaheim after the elections, I believe the most productive outcome would be to revisit the idea of a more comprehensive Resort Master Plan. Several of us have proposed ideas in a rather piecemeal fashion, but I've begun to see how some of these and a couple of new proposals might come together in a greater whole.

I just had an epiphany while I was writing another entry! I could never figure out why they seemed to have overbuilt the Western extension of Gene Autry Way to a widened Haster St.. If Disney acquired the Sunset Palms apartments (eminent domain, anyone--Garden Grove has done it), they would have direct access to the back of Toy Story Lot. An overpass over Haster would be even better and the on/off ramps to I-5 are direct to the HOV lanes. This would allow moving the entrance to the Toy Story Lot for Disney and Convention parking to Haster with direct access from the freeway. Oh, Snap! This would be a whole new ballgame for Resort and Convention parking. This has to be what Anaheim has intended all along. Sorry, I don't know how to grab a screen shot of Google Maps. (See my later entry below.)

There's some real horsetrading to be done here if Disney acquires GardenWalk and is ready to deal with Anaheim with the Toy Story and K-Lot properties. I would have no problem with Anaheim doing a deal with Disney (including tax incentives) that would result in some or all of the following;
1. CM parking structure on Harbor/Ball CM Lot.
2. Revised Eastern Gateway plan including USCIS plot after they vacate in 2020. I recommend incentives to get the motels to open a back gate to the new pedestrian approach and some kind of exit-only ramp/stairs/elevator from the East side of the bridge down to Harbor Bl.
3. Additional TDA parking North of Ball Rd. on the corner of the old Sheraton where the small hotel was demo'd.
4. Disney acquisition of GardenWalk with second hotel at Disney/Clementine and DVC on top of parking garage.
5. Possible additional parking structure on Ball CM lot.
6. Revised parking structure down the Western edge of Simba with room for one or more new Disney Hotels. And why not a four-star hotel fronting Katella on the South end of Simba owned by Disney but branded and managed by a premier hotel brand that knows who to run a four-star property? It's almost as close to the Convention Center as the Annabella and puts that back corner to good use.
7. Comprehensive development plan for Toy Story Lot and K-lot with two hotels fronting Harbor (at least one four-star), and two fronting Katella stradling the entrance from Clementine, possibly with a pedestrian bridge to Garden Walk. Definitely a pedestrian bridge over Harbor at Convention Way (this is a priority). New Toy Story Lot entrance on site of current Sunset Palms apartments with Possible vehicle overpass from Gene Autry Way. Structured parking behind the two new Harbor Hotels for Convention/Resort parking.

There are a couple of advantages in this wider approach including reinforcing the practice of Mickey and Friends/Cleo being mainly for traffic coming from the North and greater capacity and access for traffic coming from the South. It eliminates the dependence on the Magic Way approach into Pumbaa structure and city streets including the overburdened Harbor and Katella to access Toy Story. There are many variations on these ideas and probably some others not explored. But that extension of Gene Autry Way pointing at Toy Story can't be accidental--the City has to want to make that connection sooner or later.

DING, DING, DING--we have the seeds of a new Master Plan. Help us Darkbeer Wan Kenobi, you're our only hope!
 
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britain

Well-Known Member
#2
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With recent events and the potential reboot of the relationship between Disney and the City of Anaheim after the elections, I believe the most productive outcome would be to revisit the idea of a more comprehensive Resort Master Plan. Several of us have proposed ideas in a rather piecemeal fashion, but I've begun to see how some of these and a couple of new proposals might come together in a greater whole.

I just had an epiphany while I was writing another entry! I could never figure out why they seemed to have overbuilt the Western extension of Gene Autry Way to a widened Haster St.. If Disney acquired the Sunset Palms apartments (eminent domain, anyone--Garden Grove has done it), they would have direct access to the back of Toy Story Lot. An overpass over Haster would be even better and the on/off ramps to I-5 are direct to the HOV lanes. Oh, Snap! This would be a whole new ballgame for Resort and Convention parking. This has to be what Anaheim has intended all along. Sorry, I don't know how to grab a screen shot of Google Maps.

There's some real horsetrading to be done here if Disney acquires GardenWalk and is ready to deal with Anaheim with the Toy Story and K-Lot properties. I would have no problem with Anaheim doing a deal with Disney (including tax incentives) that would result in some or all of the following;
1. CM parking structure on Harbor/Ball CM Lot.
2. Revised Eastern Gateway plan including USCIS plot after they vacate in 2020. I recommend incentives to get the motels to open a back gate to the new pedestrian approach and some kind of exit-only ramp/stairs/elevator from the East side of the bridge down to Harbor Bl.
3. Additional TDA parking North of Ball Rd. on the corner of the old Sheraton where the small hotel was demo'd.
4. Disney acquisition of GardenWalk with second hotel at Disney/Clementine and DVC on top of parking garage.
5. Possible additional parking structure on Ball CM lot.
6. Revised parking structure down the Western edge of Simba with room for one or more new Disney Hotels. And why not a four-star hotel fronting Katella on the South end of Simba owned by Disney but branded and managed by a premier hotel brand that knows who to run a four-star property? It's almost as close to the Convention Center as the Annabella and puts that back corner to good use.
7. Comprehensive development plan for Toy Story Lot and K-lot with two hotels fronting Harbor (at least one four-star), possibly on Katella stradling the entrance from Clementine, possibly with a pedestrian bridge to Garden Walk. Pedestrian bridge over Harbor at Convention Way (this is a priority). New Toy Story Lot entrance on site of current Sunset Palms apartments with Possible vehicle overpass from Gene Autry Way. Structured parking behind the two new Harbor Hotels for Convention/Resort parking.

There are a couple of advantages in this wider approach including reinforcing the practice of Mickey and Friends/Cleo being mainly for traffic coming from the North and greater capacity and access for traffic coming from the South. It eliminates the dependence on the Magic Way approach into Pumbaa structure and city streets including the overburdened Harbor and Katella to access Toy Story. There are many variations on these ideas and probably some others not explored. But that extension of Gene Autry Way pointing at Toy Story can't be accidental--the City has to want to make that connection sooner or later.

DING, DING, DING--we have the seeds of a new Master Plan. Help us Darkbeer Wan Kenobi, you're our only hope!
Could you map this out?
 

Old Mouseketeer

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
#3
Could you map this out?
Here's my quick effort with legend below (sorry my color palettes don't match):

Master Plan 1.jpg


1. RED CM parking structure on Harbor/Ball CM Lot.
2. ORANGE Revised Eastern Gateway plan including USCIS plot after they vacate in 2020. I recommend incentives to get the motels to open a back gate to the new pedestrian approach and some kind of exit-only ramp/stairs/elevator from the East side of the bridge down to Harbor Bl (The big orange blob).
3. YELLOW Additional TDA parking North of Ball Rd. on the corner of the old Sheraton where the small hotel was demo'd.
4. GREEN Disney acquisition of GardenWalk with second hotel at Disney/Clementine and DVC on top of parking garage.
5. BLUE Possible additional parking structure on Ball CM lot.
6. PURPLE Revised parking structure down the Western edge of Simba with room for one or more new Disney Hotels. And why not a four-star hotel fronting Katella on the South end of Simba owned by Disney but branded and managed by a premier hotel brand that knows who to run a four-star property? It's almost as close to the Convention Center as the Annabella and puts that back corner to good use.
7. [ WHITE ] Comprehensive development plan for Toy Story Lot and K-lot with two hotels fronting Harbor (at least one four-star), and two possibly on Katella stradling the entrance from Clementine, possibly with a pedestrian bridge to Garden Walk . Pedestrian bridge over Harbor at Convention Way (this is a priority).
BLACK New Toy Story Lot entrance on site of current Sunset Palms apartments with Possible vehicle overpass from Gene Autry Way (Possibly make Harbor entrance for hotels only).
BROWN Structured parking behind the two new Harbor Hotels for Convention/Resort parking (up to size of M&F/Cleo).


Obviously not all of this will work. But I think these are the priorities:
1, 2, and 7 are really the core.
4 ties it together.
6 has multiple possibilities.
3 and 5 are long shots.

That's my best guess. Enjoy!
 
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TP2000

Well-Known Member
#6
Fun thread idea @Old Mouseketeer !

The problem with Gene Autry Way, and why it was so ridiculously overbuilt for the current non-existent traffic load...


Is because Anaheim's Planning Commission still has a grand plan to run Gene Autry Way straight through to the convention center. It would be the major east/west thoroughfare connecting the Stadium with the Anaheim Convention Center, which are obviously the two crown jewels in Anaheim's city-owned and operated venues. The future extension of Gene Autry Way, cutting right through the existing Toy Story Lot, still shows up on official Anaheim planning documents. This is the priority for the city, not a third theme park or a water park or any large scale use by a private company like Disney.

Disney would need to exit out of their long-term yet still temporary lease agreements to use the Toy Story Lot property for Disneyland parking, and get legal permanent ownership of that land. And then they'd need to get the City of Anaheim to drop any plans to extend Gene Autry Way to the west entrance of the convention center, thus freeing up that property for long term ownership and large scale use by Disney.
 

DanielBB8

Well-Known Member
#7
My feeling is the priorities continue to be Guest Parking, Hotel Resorts, Downtown Disney, Transportation, and the Third Park as the long shot.

Of course, revisit Hotel Resorts at the Theme Park district. It’s already in the master plan. Why Disney thinks it’s not economically feasible is not revealed. They should consider several new Resorts or at minimum Tower add-ons to Disneyland Hotel to make up for the demolition of the Disneyland Hotel original buildings. The Star Wars Hotel should be considered at the former luxury hotel location at Downtown Disney north parking lot. Replace Paradise Pier Hotel and add a new wing at AMC location. Build another Hotel Resort at Simba and Downtown Disney south parking lot. This one will use the entire space with an indoor water park and include a special entrance bridge into DCA. It will have several towers going 10 stories high.

The Eastern Gateway should be the next priority with plans for Downtown Disney East on the north section, the proposed parking structure on the south, and a new Hotel Resort at the former government building. Thus this is a more ambitious plan instead of what we have now. They should plan for transportation path if they decide to pursue a third park.

So the last part is what about the third park? Obviously Buy GardenWalk. The underutilized second floor will serve as the gateway to the park from the Eastern Gateway parking structure. Build a bridge over Katella Blvd from GardenWalk to the Third Park. Rechristen GardenWalk as Disney’s GardenWalk or “Third Park name Promenade”. The former Toy Story Lot should add another 10,000 space parking structure to alleviate parking elsewhere. The park should be as compact as possible with three or four major lands and a long hub, which will serve double duty with a evening water show in the open area.
 
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Darkbeer1

Well-Known Member
#8
I can tell you right now, there will be NO DtD East. Maybe a couple of carts, but Disney wants as much land as they can get from moving the Transportation Plaza for DCA expansion. It has already been promised.

If Measure L passes and is confirmed by the court, NO way will Disney buy Garden Walk, since it would make them subject to the ALWI.

Remember that the Paradise Pier is not part of the Disneyland Resort Specific Plan, so it has to be a replacement Hotel with its own Parking. The City has a minimum based on how many rooms.

And talking about parking, you just can't remove parking lots and not replace them.
 

Stevek

Well-Known Member
#9
I don't think there will be a parking structure put up at the Toy Story Lot. IMO, there is a reason they have not done so yet. I'm guessing Disney realizes that if they ever decide to build a third park, that' really the only place it can go so you really can't build a structure there now.

My gut...

Eastern Gateway gets built
New hotel gets built on Harbor
Paradise Pier gets torn down
DL hotel eventually torn down and rebuilt
3rd park eventually built in TS lot
 

Darkbeer1

Well-Known Member
#10
My GUESS regarding Toy Story. In return for allowing Gene Surry to go to the Convention Center, Disney gets some rights and builds a parking structure on the remaining land, including the Katella CM lot. Maybe even the structure going over Gene Autry Way, and use Gene Surry for entrance and exit to the structure to spread traffic away from Harbor and Katella. Disney only has a temporary permit for parking use, and the trade off benefits both parties.
 

Old Mouseketeer

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
#11
My GUESS regarding Toy Story. In return for allowing Gene Surry to go to the Convention Center, Disney gets some rights and builds a parking structure on the remaining land, including the Katella CM lot. Maybe even the structure going over Gene Autry Way, and use Gene Surry for entrance and exit to the structure to spread traffic away from Harbor and Katella. Disney only has a temporary permit for parking use, and the trade off benefits both parties.
That's why I think the stage is set for some major horse trading after the election and why I hope that will result in a new Resort Master Plan. I think moving the entrance and exit to Toy Story Lot to Haster from Gene Autry Way with direct access to the freeway is a no-brainer. So does cancelling any thoughts of a "third gate"--I don't think the local infrastructure will support it. Disney and the Convention Center need the parking and they would be insane not to find a plan that benefits all. Two new hotels fronting Harbor, including at least one four-star, and a pedestrian bridge over Harbor would be even better. There are tremendous opportunities all around if the parties can recognize their mutual self-interest.
 

build_it

Well-Known Member
#12
If I was thinking about a third park in the distant future, I would be thinking about the baseball stadium property. Lease ends in 2029. I can't imagine Disney would be ready to consider a 3rd park before then, and if you helped connect Gene Autry Way, it would only increase the connection to existing Disney property. With more resorts and parking on the Toy Story Lot, it wouldn't be a difficult distance down Gene Autry Way.

I also wouldn't be saving the Toy Story lot for a 3rd park when I could put it to use to generate revenue. It would also build infrastructure and connections, make the city 'happy' in providing a connecting street and more parking, and position Disney to become a 'savior' if the baseball team leaves for another city in the late 2020s or early 2030s.

Just my opinion - I think they can kick the can down the road on the 3rd park for a variety of reasons.
 
#14
Interesting. Could mean that Disney can swoop in and buy up the property from Anaheim if they are willing to sell it.

That brings up some interesting possibilities.

Could Disney be willing to move Toy Story parking to the stadium lot, thus allowing Gene Autry Way pushed through to the Convention Center like mentioned above. Making Disney a good neighbor in the eyes of the City.

Could they want to use it for a 3rd gate and hotel resort, however unlikely that might be in Anaheim.

Or maybe Disney will not want it, and leave Anaheim stuck with the stadium property.
 

DanielBB8

Well-Known Member
#15
The Angels are dissatisfied with the stadium. They want a new one. Yet I don’t think Disney will be happy to swoop in and rescue the city with a new development when they already have a bunch of undeveloped properties from the original theme park district to the Manchester property (Eastern Gateway) and the former Strawberry fields (Toy Story Lot). Anaheim will be stuck.
 

Old Mouseketeer

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
#16
The Angels are dissatisfied with the stadium. They want a new one. Yet I don’t think Disney will be happy to swoop in and rescue the city with a new development when they already have a bunch of undeveloped properties from the original theme park district to the Manchester property (Eastern Gateway) and the former Strawberry fields (Toy Story Lot). Anaheim will be stuck.
The thing is, I think both parties have cards to play. We'll see after the elections. I think 2019 will be very interesting.
 

Old Mouseketeer

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
#19
I don't think there will be a parking structure put up at the Toy Story Lot. IMO, there is a reason they have not done so yet. I'm guessing Disney realizes that if they ever decide to build a third park, that' really the only place it can go so you really can't build a structure there now.

My gut...

Eastern Gateway gets built
New hotel gets built on Harbor
Paradise Pier gets torn down
DL hotel eventually torn down and rebuilt
3rd park eventually built in TS lot
I'm not a believer in the 3rd gate scenario. I don't think even a drastically improved infrastructure can support it.
 
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