New DAS System at Walt Disney World 2024

Club Cooloholic

Well-Known Member
I've never seen even a suggestion that LL availability changed due to DAS passes on a given day. Do you have information that they cut down on LL slots due to anticipated DAS stats. My understanding is that DAS usage of the LL caused the physical SB line to move much more slowly since lots of people were waiting outside the queue, but the LL "slots" available to G+ remained consistent.

Now there may be former DAS users who choose to purchase G+ or ILL for rides if they do not like the accommodation offered, but the overall effect of these changes is more likely to cut overall wait times and thus decrease pressure for people to buy Genie plus IMO. I'd assume, at least right now, that the net result is about the same amount of G+/ILL revenue they would have have without making the DAS changes.

Just my two cents
Disney Tourist blog(run by a member here from back in the day) has done research into it, and whatever method he has done he has found LL availability has been severely effected by DAS. DAS use has tripled since 2019 and a majority of the LL use was often times for DAS, which is why we are where we are today.
 

Club Cooloholic

Well-Known Member
Back in the days of GAC we were dumped by the dumpsters by a few rides. Totally killed the magic. Without giving a roadmap to cheaters a room like that wouldn't work for my ds. 15 people at a time great, 90 minutes not so great
I am sure, though it can be tough to find magic in a line with hundreds of other sweaty tourists. I kind of like what they have for some of the harry potter rides and other big tickets ones at Universal, where you wait for child swaps. Something like that but maybe even more comfortable, just show Disney movies. That would be nice.
 

Figgy1

Premium Member
I am sure, though it can be tough to find magic in a line with hundreds of other sweaty tourists. I kind of like what they have for some of the harry potter rides and other big tickets ones at Universal, where you wait for child swaps. Something like that but maybe even more comfortable, just show Disney movies. That would be nice.
DAS for us worked just like Disney's and we're not booking anything until this shakes out. My ds is not level one but due to scammers I'm not going into details. That said being confined to a room would be worse for him
 

Club Cooloholic

Well-Known Member
DAS for us worked just like Disney's and we're not booking anything until this shakes out. My ds is not level one but due to scammers I'm not going into details. That said being confined to a room would be worse for him
We talk often, so know I am coming from a place of genuine curiosity, do you have to drive then when you make trips? If s room is too much, I could only imagine an airplane would not work either, as I can barley tolerate flying, myself .
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
If there were a room, at each major attraction to sit in and wait out the return time, say you went to a attraction and they said head to this room it's air conditioned, there are only 15 people in there at a time, tvs for kids chairs to sit in, for for the next 90 minutes and then when that's over you can go on the ride, I think all these arguments would be over. I also think there would be less people abusing the system. As it is, you can go get lunch, shop, ride the tea cups whatever and come back and do the ride, it's time you can spend not standing looking at the back of some guys shirt. I am not saying it's my view, but to those waiting in that 90 minute line, yes ,you do seem to be skipping it, and this people feel it's not equitable, and saying it's not is just frustrating people further.
Nobody is talking about the severely challenged, we are talking about the people that have ADHD situation and games the system to yes...skip lines.
You’re not the first to suggest this. What’s not really considered is the amount of space that would actually be needed, especially if you want a space that doesn’t feel crowded.
 

DisneyHead123

Well-Known Member
Disney is literally selling people a product/service that allows them to skip standing in lines.

That may have been true in the past but DAS is forcing reduced sales of G+ and ILL because they have to artificially limit those to account for excessive DAS use is a direct impact on revenue they can easily show and prove. Even without the money aspect, I don't think it would be hard to argue the operational impacts which is what they did the last round of lawsuits and won every one of those.

So, while the line may not be a fundamental service, it is a fundamental operational aspect of the service.
As has been said before - charging for premium seating or parking doesn’t mean handicapped seating and parking isn’t required. Companies can monetize anything they want, if monetization nullified ADA laws companies could get out of almost any accessibility accommodation.
 

Chi84

Premium Member
As has been said before - charging for premium seating or parking doesn’t mean handicapped seating and parking isn’t required. Companies can monetize anything they want, if monetization nullified ADA laws companies could get out of almost any accessibility accommodation.
If the DOJ wanted to treat Disney the same as theater premium seating or handicapped parking and set a limit on how many DAS passes were required to be distributed a day, there could be a comparison there. As it is, there is no comparison.
 

DisneyHead123

Well-Known Member
If the DOJ wanted to treat Disney the same as theater premium seating or handicapped parking and set a limit on how many DAS passes were required to be distributed a day, there could be a comparison there. As it is, there is no comparison.
I mean we won’t know until it goes to court, right? I don’t think there’s any way to know until then.
 

pdude81

Well-Known Member
Disney Tourist blog(run by a member here from back in the day) has done research into it, and whatever method he has done he has found LL availability has been severely effected by DAS. DAS use has tripled since 2019 and a majority of the LL use was often times for DAS, which is why we are where we are today.
I can certainly believe that a majority of LL use was often from DAS, but was under the impression they had specific numbers set for each attraction per hour for G+ and ILL. At least that is what I believe Len at TP confirmed when talking to Disney. If you have a link for the article you read about them reducing LL availability for DAS please share.
 

Club Cooloholic

Well-Known Member
I can certainly believe that a majority of LL use was often from DAS, but was under the impression they had specific numbers set for each attraction per hour for G+ and ILL. At least that is what I believe Len at TP confirmed when talking to Disney. If you have a link for the article you read about them reducing LL availability for DAS please share.
 

pdude81

Well-Known Member
I think the assumption has been that these DAS changes were necessary in freeing up more LL spaces to sell in order to facilitate the illusive Genie+ changes that allow for pre-booking that are supposed to come. That assumption makes sense to me, I think any positive impacts on standby are incidental and they’re trying to create more paying space in LL while also controlling those returns better.
It makes sense that they would need to make these changes before adjusting G+ so that the paid system worked as advertised. But don't forget that G+ costs a lot less than a park ticket per day, and they have to fix the standby system to have enough guests showing up to pay the bills.

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pdude81

Well-Known Member
Thanks for the link. I don't get from that article that they are saying the DAS numbers changed the number of LL's available, just that the existence of paid FP/LL helped push the number of people misusing or lying to get DAS much higher. Which is probably correct as the cost of goods has risen and people haven't yet been willing to cut back substantially on their spending.
 

Club Cooloholic

Well-Known Member
Thanks for the link. I don't get from that article that they are saying the DAS numbers changed the number of LL's available, just that the existence of paid FP/LL helped push the number of people misusing or lying to get DAS much higher. Which is probably correct as the cost of goods has risen and people haven't yet been willing to cut back substantially on their spending.
I don't see it that way. We know LLs, especially prime time ones, run out for some rides. If the majority of LL is being used by DAS, that would mean there was an issue of availability for those wanting to pay for it. Same with those using Genie(which is essentially the lightening line). Anyone paying for that service dlnows the frustration of not actually being able to use it for some rides due to them booking up.
 

Kingoglow

Well-Known Member
But don't forget that G+ costs a lot less than a park ticket per day, and they have to fix the standby system to have enough guests showing up to pay the bills.

Genie+ is an additional 25-35% of the basic ticket price per person per day. Yes, it costs less than a ticket but it a hefty addition. It is for that reason why Disney is working to clean up the Lightning Lane lines. The guests that are paying the premium are paying for a shorter que (once per attraction - if they can manage the system). Clearing out the LL lines of guests that are not paying the premium is the goal of the new system; focused mostly on DAS abusers.
 

Dranth

Well-Known Member
I mean we won’t know until it goes to court, right? I don’t think there’s any way to know until then.
No, we can't know for sure, but I believe we can make some good, educated guesses.

From conversations he had with people who should know Len, in one of his posts, indicated the DoJ has pretty much already given companies the green light to make these kinds of changes. As long as you have the data to show the impact your previous accommodations were having on others you are good to go.

We also know that when confronted with similar issues in the past the court has sided with Disney saying it is not the company’s responsibility to provide the accommodation the customer wants or believes they need, just one that will reasonably meet their need. If you have a mobility issue and have trouble walking or standing, the courts considered a wheelchair a viable option. That you are now forced to be in line with that wheelchair vs. shopping, riding something else or eating is irrelevant.

Nothing is 100% of course and I do think we will likely see Disney tweaks things once they see how everything is working but I doubt there is any court that would look at the range of options Disney is providing and say that is not a reasonable approach.
 
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Kingoglow

Well-Known Member
Nothing is 100% of course and I do think we will likely see Disney tweaks things once they see how everything is working but I doubt there is any court that would look at the range of options Disney is providing and will say that is not reasonable approach.
With the make-up of the current justice system, all the way to the Supreme Court, I agree.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
I don't think it's discriminatory to adjust wait times for people with DAS in order to lessen wait times for people with paid access to LL. The problem is that Disney is sending DAS guests through the LL, and that increases the wait times for people who paid to be there.
I'm sorry - but your wrong here. Just like the fact the handicap parking reduces spots and puts regular spots further away disadvantaging 'everyone else' is not a justification to say handicap parking should be allowed to be placed further away as to not create a burden on the others.

Consider the steps in front of City Hall at the Magic Kingdom in WDW. If I can walk up the steps, I can be at the front entrance in a few seconds. If I can't walk up the steps, I have to use the ramp. The ramp requires more physical effort, requires me to travel a longer distance, and it takes more time, but it's still considered equal access because the ramp gets me inside the building.
But the ramp is not introduced as a toll or a way to avoid burdening the 'everyone else'. The ramp is introduced to solve a problem of access. The fact someone may chose to keep stairs too is just a tangent... it means nothing in the sense of what burdens are acceptable.

There's no law that says Disney can't make people with DAS wait longer than people who paid to use the LL. There's no law that says Disney has to give DAS return times that are equal to the standby wait times. If there is a law, I have not been able to find it.
It's right there in title III of the ADA.

(b) Participation in unequal benefit. A public accommodation shall not afford an individual or class of individuals, on the basis of a disability or disabilities of such individual or class, directly, or through contractual, licensing, or other arrangements, with the opportunity to participate in or benefit from a good, service, facility, privilege, advantage, or accommodation that is not equal to that afforded to other individuals

And
§ 36.204 Administrative methods.
A public accommodation shall not, directly or through contractual or other arrangements, utilize standards or criteria or methods of administration that have the effect of discriminating on the basis of disability, or that perpetuate the discrimination of others who are subject to common administrative control.

The issue is queues in theme parks is not an area the DOJ has specifically codified into the accessibility standards, so all interpretation of the law falls back to the interpretation of the wide guiding protections the law sets to provide the disabled. The lack of inclusion doesn't mean they aren't covered, it means there is no Federal Register filed definition of what the gov believes this definition to mean in this particular circumstance. So it relies on a court interpretation of the text of the law.

Trying to say 'we will make you wait longer because you have DAS' is pretty much indefendable. If you said 'it takes longer than going through that line...' because of practical implementation constraints that would be fine. But to say "we're gonna artificially hold you back, so you don't disadvantage someone else" is not a consequence that is defendable. Longer wait because of less dedicated resources... sure.. Longer wait because of a longer walk way? Sure.. Longer wait because I need to ensure you get held back? Not gonna fly...
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
The repeating rides with DAS thing is sticky, because I do think that because DAS is intended to allow people to access attractions, it should be under similar rules to the general guest population, if you want to invest the time you can keep riding the same things over and over. I don’t think it should be prevented nor do I think Disney ever would

Here's a simple way to address re-ride limits. You make it apply to everyone.

Imagine if a park had a re-ride status for major rides. When 'restricted' all guests are limited to 3 re-rides a day. If the crowd levels are low... they might relax the status and say 'open' where everyone can re-ride as much as you want.

If you make the re-ride limit high enough that the avg guest wouldn't hit the limit... it doesn't become a flash point for people. It just becomes a way of keeping some guests from creating undue burden due to finite capacity available.

This model isn't discriminatory because it applies to everyone... and it keeps the max capacity 'burden' for a guest uniform.. no matter what line system they are using.
 

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