New DAS System at Walt Disney World 2024

[lazyboy97o]

Disney has been developing queues for a long time. I would like to think the queues are designed with ideas like tactile paving in mind.

But then, we have the GoG exit queue with steep steps. The exit is handicapped accessible, but exiting the ride in a wheelchair/stair-free requires 2 elevators.

Stairs actually are considered to be part of accessible design. There are specific criteria they follow and the design guidelines even note that note having stairs as an option could make a place less accessible. The exit stairs at Guardians of the Galaxy: Cosmic Rewind are no steeper than any other stairs in the parks. While they could be less steep, people do have concerns about stairs with a low rise. Stairs can also not rise more than 12 feet without a landing. The issue is more the design of the space (tall, narrow and open) and the nature of the ride people just experienced.

They did though spend some time on designing switchback ramps. I’m not sure having people turning around a bunch would have been all that better after such a ride. I also wouldn’t be surprising if they ran into some life safety issues with the length of the ramps.

 

[MickeyLuv'r]

Stairs actually are considered to be part of accessible design. There are specific criteria they follow and the design guidelines even note that note having stairs as an option could make a place less accessible. The exit stairs at Guardians of the Galaxy: Cosmic Rewind are no steeper than any other stairs in the parks. While they could be less steep, people do have concerns about stairs with a low rise. Stairs can also not rise more than 12 feet without a landing. The issue is more the design of the space (tall, narrow and open) and the nature of the ride people just experienced.

They did though spend some time on designing switchback ramps. I’m not sure having people turning around a bunch would have been all that better after such a ride. I also wouldn’t be surprising if they ran into some life safety issues with the length of the ramps.

Thanks. This is very useful. From my perspective, I was a bit surprised the first time I rode. Stairs on other rides, I earlier mentioned the Mummy for example, have not seemed as difficult to navigate as the ones on GoG. In my case, it was not due to the GoG ride, but as you said the space being tall and narrow.

Can you shed light on any other queues? If indeed WDW plans to add a way for guests to exit queues to use the restroom, have other parks done that? I feel like I have seen that before, but I don't recall where. what would that look like?

There was a time when a guest in line near me had a medical problem in the queue for Pirates. The CM's helped him go out via a side exit near the fountain. Everyone was impressed by how quickly they responded to his needs.

 

[RamblinWreck]

Who remembers when it was FP+ and DAS, there was never long lines for that line with both and there probably was not as much abuse.
G+ and LL change everything...and now we have this mess from excessive greed.

Dark days indeed

FP+ was such a huge downgrade from the original fast pass

 

[Comped]

Oh, I absolutely get the logic of Braille maps being available at Guest Services, but the logic of a podium a half mile from the entrance is baffling to me.

Same at Disneyland, they should have a CM there to hand out a prize if a blind person ever found that map, let alone actually used it to navigate the park.

If they gave out the portable braile maps to keep... I'd learned Braille just to have some. Should probably learn at some point but it was never a priority for a lot of reasons.

Stairs actually are considered to be part of accessible design. There are specific criteria they follow and the design guidelines even note that note having stairs as an option could make a place less accessible. The exit stairs at Guardians of the Galaxy: Cosmic Rewind are no steeper than any other stairs in the parks. While they could be less steep, people do have concerns about stairs with a low rise. Stairs can also not rise more than 12 feet without a landing. The issue is more the design of the space (tall, narrow and open) and the nature of the ride people just experienced.

They did though spend some time on designing switchback ramps. I’m not sure having people turning around a bunch would have been all that better after such a ride. I also wouldn’t be surprising if they ran into some life safety issues with the length of the ramps.

Yep. ADA guidelines are freely available, and something that throughout my theme park studies at UCF was often emphasized as something we always had to meet in projects about ride design and operations. Actually I still have a fair few things memorized! I think it's either hallways or doors that must be at least 32 in wide for wheelchair accessibility for example. That's a minimum and most places in a theme park will be wider than that simply for putting even more people through...

 

[lazyboy97o]

Thanks. This is very useful. From my perspective, I was a bit surprised the first time I rode. Stairs on other rides, I earlier mentioned the Mummy for example, have not seemed as difficult to navigate as the ones on GoG. In my case, it was not due to the GoG ride, but as you said the space being tall and narrow.

Can you shed light on any other queues? If indeed WDW plans to add a way for guests to exit queues to use the restroom, have other parks done that? I feel like I have seen that before, but I don't recall where. what would that look like?

There was a time when a guest in line near me had a medical problem in the queue for Pirates. The CM's helped him go out via a side exit near the fountain. Everyone was impressed by how quickly they responded to his needs.

Some queues have an attendant lane which is basically an extra lane that allows employees to get around the queue without squeezing past everyone. They typically run along the side of switchback areas. Sometimes they are obvious because they are clearly delineated by queue rail. In other cases they less obvious as they’re just the space between the queue rail and the scenic elements of the queue. That proximity to scenic elements would be a big challenge with using attendant lanes as there is a reason guests are physically separated from those scenic elements.

In a new Assembly occupancy the maximum travel distance to an exit (either outside or a protected area that leads outside) is 250’. Given the nature of queues they tend to be right along the edge of a building so that space isn’t wasted getting people out. Ways out can also be ways in if needed.

Yep. ADA guidelines are freely available, and something that throughout my theme park studies at UCF was often emphasized as something we always had to meet in projects about ride design and operations. Actually I still have a fair few things memorized! I think it's either hallways or doors that must be at least 32 in wide for wheelchair accessibility for example. That's a minimum and most places in a theme park will be wider than that simply for putting even more people through...

It’s doors that must have a 32” minimum clearance between the jamb and any door hardware. Hallways must generally be 36” clear but can be reduced down in small sections. Despite people often saying it’s due to the ADA, the widths in entertainment venues like theme parks are driven more by the building and life safety codes which, for example, require a minimum width of 44” for hallways.

Officially, Disney only allows strollers up to 31” wide into the parks, which you’ll notice is just wide enough to fit through a single door with its 32” clear opening.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

Its amazing how so many other theme/amusement parks exist without the level of service that DAS provided and ease of obtainment yet dont have queues that are a panic of people passing out, throwing up, bowling people over, etc.... What is it specifically about Disney that causes these issues?

I imagine the others don’t have those problems because most disabled people don’t go there. Disney has a disproportionately high number of disabled guests because people knew they’ve made accommodations that made it possible for disabled people to enjoy the parks. Disney will now join the growing list of places many people can no longer go, you may be ok with that but many others aren’t.

People think others are overreacting because they abused the system and they’ll now have to stand in long lines but the reality is they’re worried because they’re about to lose one of the only theme parks they could still go to. They aren’t worried about standing in line, they’re worried about not having any theme/amusement parks to go to anymore.

 

[phillip9698]

I imagine the others don’t have those problems because most disabled people don’t go there. Disney has a disproportionately high number of disabled guests because people knew they’ve made accommodations that made it possible for disabled people to enjoy the parks. Disney will now join the growing list of places many people can no longer go, you may be ok with that but many others aren’t.

People think others are overreacting because they abused the system and they’ll now have to stand in long lines but the reality is they’re worried because they’re about to lose one of the only theme parks they could still go to. They aren’t worried about standing in line, they’re worried about not having any theme/amusement parks to go to anymore.

Other parks have similar services, they just aren’t handed out like candy. Are you saying a disabled person is unable to attend Six Flags because providing a doctors note is too difficult?

 

[ditzee]

Other parks have similar services, they just aren’t handed out like candy. Are you saying a disabled person is unable to attend Six Flags because providing a doctors note is too difficult?

Many of us have said we'd gladly share medical documentation. Disney said no.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Other parks have similar services, they just aren’t handed out like candy. Are you saying a disabled person is unable to attend Six Flags because providing a doctors note is too difficult?

This question only works if Disney and Six Flags are considered equivalent experiences. There are all sorts of reasons why someone would go to Disney but not Six Flags that are well discussed.

 

[Dranth]

Many of us have said we'd gladly share medical documentation. Disney said no.

And Six Flags is currently being sued because of it. If that system survives the courts then Disney likely ends up with something similar down the line if/when the new one falls apart.

 

[phillip9698]

This question only works if Disney and Six Flags are considered equivalent experiences. There are all sorts of reasons why someone would go to Disney but not Six Flags that are well discussed.

It works if a significant portion of people using DAS also attend other theme parks and do not use equivalent services. From what is being displayed on social media and personal accounts the answer to that question is that it is absolutely taking place.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

This question only works if Disney and Six Flags are considered equivalent experiences. There are all sorts of reasons why someone would go to Disney but not Six Flags that are well discussed.

The question works because it was in response to another poster saying former DAS users are losing access to the only park they CAN go to, not the only park they WANT to go to. "Are Six Flags parks accessible" is a different issue than "Are Six Flags parks as fun as WDW."

 

[wdisney9000]

And Six Flags is currently being sued because of it. If that system survives the courts then Disney likely ends up with something similar down the line if/when the new one falls apart.

I don't think it's about the system falling apart as much as it is about $.

I don't see a board room meeting taking place and Disney execs are discussing wait times and guest experience due to DAS

I do see a boardroom meeting and execs discussing converting a % of DAS users to genie+.

And the best part of their plan was to announce DAS abuse causing longer wait times and now the brand loyalists with Stockholm syndrome will champion the efforts for them.

 

[Angel Ariel]

It works if a significant portion of people using DAS also attend other theme parks and do not use equivalent services. From what is being displayed on social media and personal accounts the answer to that question is that it is absolutely taking place.

This is where the discussion goes awry because, unlike the discussion of DAS where @lentesta has provided specific data to show DAS use, we on this thread don't have such information for the other parks. I'm sure there are people on social media who use DAS at Disney and then don't elsewhere - not debating that exists. But a significant percentage of DAS users doing that? There's no data to make that claim.

Anecdotally -we've gone to other theme parks, and yep we use their disability services while there. One of them I would argue has a much more generous program than DAS - you get to enter at the exit, and you can stay on the ride for 2 consecutive rides without getting off if you so choose. It's a theme park designed for kids - mostly younger kids - but even during the summer, it's clearly not abused (and also no documentation required there).

A six flags, though, and universal Hollywood - we definitely won't return to the latter for some time, and aren't likely to seek out the former. In both instances because the rides aren't super accessible. We go to Disney because the rides - even many of the thrill rides - are so much more accessible. I would posit that the accessibility of the rides (or lack thereof) at places like 6 flags drives down the numbers of those with disabilities going more so than their documentation program. Having just done universal's documentstion process, to be very frank, it feels like theatre.

 

[Angel Ariel]

The question works because it was in response to another poster saying former DAS users are losing access to the only park they CAN go to, not the only park they WANT to go to. "Are Six Flags parks accessible" is a different issue than "Are Six Flags parks as fun as WDW."

And 6 flags parks are significantly less accessible. We found universal Hollywood also to lack accessibility, even in Mario land. I've heard universal Orlando is better so we will try it, but I'm skeptical after universal Hollywood z

 

[Dranth]

I don't think it's about the system falling apart as much as it is about $.

I don't see a board room meeting taking place and Disney execs are discussing wait times and guest experience due to DAS

I do see a boardroom meeting and execs discussing converting a % of DAS users to genie+.

And the best part of their plan was to announce DAS abuse causing longer wait times and now the brand loyalists with Stockholm syndrome will champion the efforts for them.

Maybe, but the overall ride utilization by DAS users plus their party on the more popular attractions is unsustainable. I trust Len and his numbers and they were also confirmed by people with Disney so no reason to doubt there is a problem.

Sure, Disney wants to make more money but that doesn't mean that changes didn't have to be made.

Finally, at least here, we already knew that DAS was causing issues from numbers Len provided long before Disney said anything. You can call it Stockholm Syndrome all you want but it is just math. Less people utilizing the LL line means faster access for everyone and move movement in the stand by line. The ONLY way that doesn't work is if Disney sells G+ to every single person that is already using G+ plus all the people no longer on DAS. Even that only works mathematically if the DAS person who is now using G+ never did a single re-ride while using DAS. If they did and are now limited to stand by and one skip the line wait per attraction, then lines are still better off in the new system.

 

[Dranth]

And 6 flags parks are significantly less accessible. We found universal Hollywood also to lack accessibility, even in Mario land. I've heard universal Orlando is better so we will try it, but I'm skeptical after universal Hollywood z

I don't know from any first-hand use, but have been told Orlando is much better. Might just be that it is newer so more thought was put in when it was being built vs. Hollywood but assuming the family likes the type of rides Uni offers, it is worth a trip.

 

[Angel Ariel]

I don't know from any first-hand use, but have been told Orlando is much better. Might just be that it is newer so more thought was put in when it was being built vs. Hollywood but assuming the family likes the type of rides Uni offers, it is worth a trip.

the biggest draw is Harry Potter - she enjoyed that land at UH, and think she'd enjoy Diagon alley also. The IOA coasters are not likely to happen (safety for her). We will try it, but my expectations are low. I don't feel that way when we go to Disney. The only things at WDW that are outright nos are space mtn (because it's back to back seating, not side by side. She rode it fine at DLR side by side this year), and rockin' roller coaster.

 

[Figgy1]

the biggest draw is Harry Potter - she enjoyed that land at UH, and think she'd enjoy Diagon alley also. The IOA coasters are not likely to happen (safety for her). We will try it, but my expectations are low. I don't feel that way when we go to Disney. The only things at WDW that are outright nos are space mtn (because it's back to back seating, not side by side. She rode it fine at DLR side by side this year), and rockin' roller coaster.

She'll be able to see all of Potter both lands and what she can't do in her chair there are elevators that will allow her to get everywhere. The ques are experiences in their own right and you can do the 'chicken exit" or child swap after doing them. As for doing the rides I'd watch videos to see what she can safely do and go from there

 

[natatomic]

Remember when it was just Fastpass... but GAC abuse was still so bad they had to kill GAC and introduce DAS?

Yeah... that's the reality... no need to try to blame Genie+... the abuse is as old as the clickbait articles and slimly people that encouraged others to lie to get an advantage.

To be fair, the abuse was still very different. GAC was an unlimited, immediate fast pass, essentially. No waiting for return times, no limits on rerides, given out like candy (I posted earlier in the thread of a man who was given one because he claimed he sometimes “wobbled” when he stood), etc. FPs were free, yes, but they still had their limitations which made the GAC very desirable to have to cheaters.

The switch to the DAS helped alleviate much of that abuse at first. Those with physical disabilities weren’t always granted one (Mr. WobblyPants probably no longer qualified), there were no immediate re-rides, had to wait for return times. It definitely helped. And FP+ was free and had similar constrictions (aside from the possibility of an attraction running out of FPs and no multiple FPs for the same ride), so aside from the diehard cheaters, FP+ was suitable for most people, especially those who had a conscious about lying about a disability.

But then they changed it to Genie+, and now those free fast passes everyone had been conditioned to using for two decades were now going to cost their family hundreds of dollars (on average) the length of their stay. This is on top of the ever rising ticket prices, hotel rooms, food prices, etc. Now…a little lie (or heck, maybe just an exaggeration) of a sun sensitivity or stomach issues or a kid’s adhd doesn’t seem like such a big deal when you’re finding a way to save hundreds of dollars you never once had to shell out before (and that Disney never asked you to shell out!)

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not defending the abusers or exaggerators. But I definitely think a lot of people who didn’t abuse the system before under original FP or FP+ were able to shove their guilt away REAL fast when they saw the price of their next vacation.