• The new WDWMAGIC iOS app is here!
    Stay up to date with the latest Disney news, photos, and discussions right from your iPhone. The app is free to download and gives you quick access to news articles, forums, photo galleries, park hours, weather and Lightning Lane pricing. Learn More
  • Welcome to the WDWMAGIC.COM Forums!
    Please take a look around, and feel free to sign up and join the community.

MK New Beak and Barrel - Pirates of the Caribbean-themed lounge

James Alucobond

Well-Known Member
What's exactly wrong with the 'printing'? Are y'all talking about the bulletin board or the menu. Did they use a dot matrix printer again?
It's that everything is clearly digitally produced when it obviously shouldn't be if you're trying to be even remotely authentic. For instance, this "woodcut" doesn't actually look like a woodcut; it imitates overlarge grainwise gouges only as a decorative background element and then ignores that completely throughout the rest of the illustration, which thereafter adopts the line quality of pencil art.
woodcut.png

And for things that are supposed to look handwritten, they never bother to actually hand-write anything. They just download the nearest free "handwritten" font, which always looks terrible because of the obviously machine-generated recurring swashes, most evident in the minuscule y and g below, though extremely obvious throughout due to the general repetition of the content.
pirateoath.png
 

DisneyHead123

Well-Known Member
It's that everything is clearly digitally produced when it obviously shouldn't be if you're trying to be even remotely authentic. For instance, this "woodcut" doesn't actually look like a woodcut; it imitates overlarge grainwise gouges only as a decorative background element and then ignores that completely throughout the rest of the illustration, which thereafter adopts the line quality of pencil art.
View attachment 879919
And for things that are supposed to look handwritten, they never bother to actually hand-write anything. They just download the nearest free "handwritten" font, which always looks terrible because of the obviously machine-generated recurring swashes, most evident in the minuscule y and g below, though extremely obvious throughout due to the general repetition of the content.
View attachment 879921
Making I’m going into pixie duster mode, but couldn’t the lines represent a hastily made woodblock print? As I said in another post, this is a fantastical vs. historical take (the idea of merry partying pirates making posters for their events).
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Making I’m going into pixie duster mode, but couldn’t the lines represent a hastily made woodblock print? As I said in another post, this is a fantastical vs. historical take (the idea of merry partying pirates making posters for their events).
Since when do fantastical pirates have a Creative Cloud subscription?

You’re trying to make a distinction that is not the issue and doesn’t hold when looking at the best of Disney’s portfolio of work.
 

DisneyHead123

Well-Known Member
Since when do fantastical pirates have a Creative Cloud subscription?

You’re trying to make a distinction that is not the issue and doesn’t hold when looking at the best of Disney’s portfolio of work.
I’m not sure what you mean. I was talking about the lines on the graphic and their possible origin.
 

DrStarlander

Well-Known Member
The skull design of the cabinet also makes little sense in the real world, unless we’re meant to believe that in addition to sailors and thieves (and antiques aficionados), pirates are whimsical craftsmen who infuse their self-styled branding into all the work they do. Similarly, why are there ornate carvings of POTC movie characters everywhere, rather than simple graffiti that was plausibly scratched in by a pirate? It doesn’t make the elements convincing, it makes them look like props.

Instead, the cabinetry could have been made from salvaged materials, like ship hatches and shutters. It could have used full-scale (or close enough to trick the eye) elements to convincingly feel like it’s a real object. It could have included wood joints to avoid the look of plywood, and it could have used angles that correlate to actual construction rather than a fanciful sculpture. Instead of looking like a real object, it’s fallen into WDI’s trap of too many layers of references getting in the way of simply making sense.
Well put. The issue I expressed, when Disney released its video highlighting the back bar, and still have today is the "spoon-feeding" nature of this sort of design. It's a back bar shaped (not deftly, but rather overtly and too-obviously) like a giant skull...and it has another small skull on it, up high. And in case you are even dumber than Disney apparently thinks its guests may be, a parrot who is wearing a skull on his hat will come out and talk to you. GET IT? This place is "pirate themed."

Is it "fun"? Sure. Mini golf courses are fun too. But given that this is Magic Kingdom's first bar, all the kid-friendly dressing gives the place a Joe Camel vibe...
s-l1200.jpg

Is it for kids? Is it for adults? Let's argue. Or let's face it, it's for adults to get a buzz on and not feel guilty bringing in their kids. (Because if you bring them into a real bar -- for adults -- you may have a problem.) The giant skull and cute parrot say it clearly: "you're in here, you know, for the kids."

I am well aware that the amusement industry has a history of cartoonish design...
1*JqpV1azGuuRjbBHHfyx-YA.jpg
59e1d9af6bbff355a454bfa81e1feb77.jpg

Particularly from an era of amusement parks with concession operators, screaming at guests -- through design -- to try to attract them over to their ride or attraction, and not a competitor's, in the same way that "California Crazy" architecture hollered at drivers-by in the early 20th century...
180604160223-va-california-crazy-p059-1804241607-id-1189133.jpg
california-crazy-book-report-american-roadside-vernacular-designboom-600.jpg

In a competitive landscape, desperate means call for desperate measures. And even though -- for a moment -- this approach was celebrated at the most acclaimed levels of architecture, for example in the Postmodern works of Robert Venturi and Denise Scott Brown...
Museum.png
Disney-Web.jpg

Its case can be made out there -- in the real world of competition -- more so than in the captured world of the Magic Kingdom. Magic Kingdom is, mostly, a diegetic place. It's not screaming or panicked to conduct commerce with you (yet). Liberty Square is realistic, as a colonial town, and you don't see things quite like this:
Churros.png

Same with Frontierland, where luckily we don't yet have this...
TurkeyLegs.png

Themes are generally allowed to play the long game, to envelop you with "realism" (as much as is realistic in a theme park). The park doesn't tend to treat its guests as dolts, and despite the decades-long criticisms of academic "cultural elites," the park doesn't actually clobber guests over the head with glaring semiotics and patronizing gambits, desperate to make its point. At least not at the level that's possible...
0622-all-star-sports-resort.jpg

The back bar of the Beak & Barrel does that, even with the lights down low. And yet, in many things I've seen about this bar, it otherwise feels like it's trying to be diegetic...a real place built by and inhabited by pirates, filled with details and decor of believable scale and explanation. So I focus my criticism on that back bar -- which was the thing they most wanted to showcase in that video a while back. I still think it's corny and unnecessary, though it may actually be an outlier of the place.
 
Last edited:

HauntedPirate

Park nostalgist
Premium Member
The story is fine. As you said, you are being contrarian.

It's fine if this doesn't work for you, but this is great work from Disney, a richly detailed space, full of interactivity, fun, and theatrics. This is the kind of bar or restaurant space that feels like something out of Disney many decades ago.

It's going to be insanely popular.
You keep using the words “richly” and “themed”. But yet, you exhibit no clue as to what they actually mean in a THEME park. “Just suspend disbelief and hand over your money and it will be fun, trust me!!!”
 

JD80

Well-Known Member
Since when do fantastical pirates have a Creative Cloud subscription?

You’re trying to make a distinction that is not the issue and doesn’t hold when looking at the best of Disney’s portfolio of work.

Hate to break it to you but the bartenders in the place aren't from the 17th century either.

Oh and the place has functional plumbing. I hope that doesn't kill it too much in your mind.
 

JMcMahonEsq

Well-Known Member
You keep using the words “richly” and “themed”. But yet, you exhibit no clue as to what they actually mean in a THEME park. “Just suspend disbelief and hand over your money and it will be fun, trust me!!!”
Yes because there is some actual objective definition of what those words mean. AND apparently there are separate objective definitions on what they mean in a THEME park, as opposed to anywhere else. Just stop being obtuse already. You want to keep wasting your time coming to a board about a place and finding things to complain about, be my guest. I mean i have more going on in my life than to waste time on that, but its seems like you don't. You want to argue YOU don't like the bar, again trolls got to troll, but sure, maybe for some reason YOU don't like a place that you probably haven't been in yet. Personal taste is personal, so go for it. But to think you have some hidden knowledge or get to set a standard get a clue.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
I’m not sure what you mean. I was talking about the lines on the graphic and their possible origin.
Most everything at Disney is a fantastical version of the subject. To offer that as an explanation is to ignore a large portion of Disney’s work. Pandora is most definitely not a historical recreation. And yet there are all sorts of hand made set pieces used throughout the land sourced from the other side of the world. Not because a scenic fabricator couldn’t fabricate the desired items, but because the story is of the Navi who make things by hand and not with advanced fabrication tools.

Historic masonry techniques were used in Disney Springs. There’s a long history of Disney using hand lettering. We could keep going with more example of details that are typically celebrated by fans as a symbol of Disney’s dedication to their craft. Even if we just go with the pirates being more self referential and making posters for their events, their hastily made signage wouldn’t be done with digital tools and techniques. The lines referenced in the image weren’t just an old timey aesthetic thing, but instead are an artifact from certain production techniques. Even a hastily made carving wouldn’t look like the graphic. And if the story is hastily made posters then there are other mediums that could have been emulated to convey hasty work. Instead it’s a picture of pirates with lines added to sort of look old timey.
 

DisneyHead123

Well-Known Member
Well put. The issue I expressed, when Disney released its video highlighting the back bar, and still have today is the "spoon-feeding" nature of this sort of design. It's a back bar shaped (not deftly, but rather overtly and too-obviously) like a giant skull...and it has another small skull on it, up high. And in case you are even dumber than Disney apparently thinks its guests may be, a parrot who is wearing a skull on his hat will come out and talk to you. GET IT? This place is "pirate themed."

Is it "fun"? Sure. Mini golf courses are fun too. But given that this is Magic Kingdom's first bar, all the kid-friendly dressing gives the place a Joe Camel vibe...

Is it for kids? Is it for adults? Let's argue. Or let's face it, it's for adults to get a buzz on and not feel guilty bringing in their kids. (Because if you bring them into a real bar -- for adults -- you may have a problem.) The giant skull and cute parrot say it clearly: "you're in here, you know, for the kids."

I am well aware that the amusement industry has a history of cartoonish design...

Particularly from an era of amusement parks with concession operators, screaming at guests -- through design -- to try to attract them over to their ride or attraction, and not a competitor's, in the same way that "California Crazy" architecture hollered at drivers-by in the early 20th century...

In a competitive landscape, desperate means call for desperate measures. And even though -- for a moment -- this approach was celebrated at the most acclaimed levels of architecture, for example in the Postmodern works of Robert Venturi and Denise Scott Brown...

Its case can be made out there -- in the real world of competition -- more so than in the captured world of the Magic Kingdom. Magic Kingdom is, mostly, a diegetic place. It's not screaming or panicked to conduct commerce with you (yet). Liberty Square is realistic, as a colonial town, and you don't see things quite like this:

Same with Frontierland, where luckily we don't yet have this...

Themes are generally allowed to play the long game, to envelope you with "realism" (as much as is realistic in a theme park). The park doesn't tend to treat its guests as dolts, and despite the decades-long criticisms of academic "cultural elites," the park doesn't actually clobber guests over the head with glaring semiotics and patronizing gambits, desperate to make its point. At least not at the level that's possible...

The back bar of the Beak & Barrel does that, even with the lights down low. And yet, in many things I've seen about this bar, it otherwise feels like it's trying to be diegetic...a real place built by and inhabited by pirates, filled with details and decor of believable scale and explanation. So I focus my criticism on that back bar -- which was the thing they most wanted to showcase in that video a while back. I still think it's corny and unnecessary, though it may actually be an outlier of the place.

Just wanted to say this doesn't represent my point of view, but you make some interesting and well thought out points.
 

DisneyHead123

Well-Known Member
Most everything at Disney is a fantastical version of the subject. To offer that as an explanation is to ignore a large portion of Disney’s work. Pandora is most definitely not a historical recreation. And yet there are all sorts of hand made set pieces used throughout the land sourced from the other side of the world. Not because a scenic fabricator couldn’t fabricate the desired items, but because the story is of the Navi who make things by hand and not with advanced fabrication tools.

Historic masonry techniques were used in Disney Springs. There’s a long history of Disney using hand lettering. We could keep going with more example of details that are typically celebrated by fans as a symbol of Disney’s dedication to their craft. Even if we just go with the pirates being more self referential and making posters for their events, their hastily made signage wouldn’t be done with digital tools and techniques. The lines referenced in the image weren’t just an old timey aesthetic thing, but instead are an artifact from certain production techniques. Even a hastily made carving wouldn’t look like the graphic. And if the story is hastily made posters then there are other mediums that could have been emulated to convey hasty work. Instead it’s a picture of pirates with lines added to sort of look old timey.

I feel like we're having two different conversations. I asked a very literal question about whether or not something looked like it was made from a woodblock print (which, now that I've looked into it, is probably the same as a woodcut, which answers my question.) I'm not making any value judgements or saying what style I think is good or bad - again, extremely literal question - "Could this be a woodblock print?"
 

Register on WDWMAGIC. This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.

Back
Top Bottom