MK New Beak and Barrel - Pirates of the Caribbean-themed lounge

JD80

JD80

Well-Known Member
TrainsOfDisney said:
Well…. If that’s the definition of capacity - That capacity drastically changes based on staffing.

Well diversity certainly is factual. If a menu only offers burgers, it is less diverse than a menu that offers burgers, grilled chicken, and grilled fish.

Epcot certainly has more diverse food options than Magic Kingdom - that’s not an opinion, it’s a fact. DAK probably does too.
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A kitchen has a max capacity based on it being fully staffed. That's the definition. Just like an attraction.

The general consensus for EPCOT and AK is that the food selection is diverse. But if you took 1 restaurant away or 5? Is it still diverse? At what point does it become "Not diverse?" That's an opinion. Can you empirically say how many types of restaurants or styles of food makes EPCOT diverse? You would get a difference answer from almost anyone.

Edit: Ask someone that likes hamburgers if a menu of 15 different hamburgers with one plant based hamburger is diverse and they may say yes. Ask a vegetarian and they'd say no
 
J

James Alucobond

Well-Known Member
lazyboy97o said:
Again, how does “The world’s busiest theme park needs less capacity than it previously had” pass the smell test? It’s like saying “We have invited more people over for dinner so we should get a smaller table.”
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While I generally agree with you, I think you could probably make the argument that the proportion of guests that were originally used to calculate the necessary QS capacity might warrant a downward revision based on a number of factors. For instance:
  1. Other parks now exist at the resort, some of which are known specifically for plentiful and varied food options. Guests are consequently less captive and may hop to or from other parks for dining.
  2. Many more resorts and Disney Springs now exist as on-property options.
  3. Resort guests in particular may be encouraged to leave the park during peak dining times even with single-park tickets, especially on days with Extra Evening Hours.
  4. While a self-inflicted issue, QS food at Magic Kingdom now has a long-standing reputation for being bad and would likely have a very difficult time ever eclipsing EPCOT or Animal Kingdom even if kitchen facilities were improved and shuttered locations were re-opened. This reinforces the behaviors outlined in 1-3.
That said, I still think what is there is insufficient and that any calculation revisions these behavioral changes might warrant would not outpace the total increase in attendance, but I do think it might be slightly more nuanced than reusing the original formula.
 
TrainsOfDisney

TrainsOfDisney

Well-Known Member
JD80 said:
The general consensus for EPCOT and AK is that the food selection is diverse. But if you took 1 restaurant away or 5? Is it still diverse? At what point does it become "Not diverse?"
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Diverse compared to MK. That’s what we are talking about here.

Epcot and DAK (I think) has more diverse food than MK. Not as an opinion but as a fact.
 
lazyboy97o

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Chi84 said:
I don’t think that’s all there is to it, is there?

The parks have changed significantly over the years. Maybe people’s dining habits and expectations have changed too.

I know that in my city brick and mortar restaurants are losing a lot of business to food trucks. Thirty years ago there were no such things.

Maybe people are spending less time eating in the parks because they are paying for LLs now. Or at the other end of the spectrum they could prefer to eat at one of the monorail resorts.

If guests were having a difficult time because of insufficient dining capacity I’m sure Disney would be hearing about it. I can say that for us dining has been easier on our most recent trips.
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Yes, that really is all there is to it.

The number of new and replacement dining venues at the Magic Kingdom can be counted on one hand. The same with the number added at the monorail resorts. There aren’t that many places to account for when looking at this.

People spending less time eating doesn’t improve kitchen capacity.

Right now you and others are making excuses for the lost capacity. The capacity has been strained for so long it’s just accepted as normal.
 
Chi84

Chi84

Premium Member
lazyboy97o said:
Yes, that really is all there is to it.

The number of new and replacement dining venues at the Magic Kingdom can be counted on one hand. The same with the number added at the monorail resorts. There aren’t that many places to account for when looking at this.

People spending less time eating doesn’t improve kitchen capacity.

Right now you and others are making excuses for the lost capacity. The capacity has been strained for so long it’s just accepted as normal.
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Sure more is better. I would like enough rides and restaurants so I would never have to stand in line or wait for a table.

But in my experience that’s not how life works. We have to reserve tables in local restaurants or wait in line for a table. We buy express passes at local amusement parks or stand in line. Theaters and airplane seats are also limited and sometimes sell out.

I’m not making excuses other than to say popular venues rarely afford unlimited capacity.

I’m still not sure why you believe capacity is insufficient as opposed to simply reduced.
 
lazyboy97o

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
James Alucobond said:
While I generally agree with you, I think you could probably make the argument that the proportion of guests that were originally used to calculate the necessary QS capacity might warrant a downward revision based on a number of factors. For instance:
  1. Other parks now exist at the resort, some of which are known specifically for plentiful and varied food options. Guests are consequently less captive and may hop to or from other parks for dining.
  2. Many more resorts and Disney Springs now exist as on-property options.
  3. Resort guests in particular may be encouraged to leave the park during peak dining times even with single-park tickets, especially on days with Extra Evening Hours.
  4. While a self-inflicted issue, QS food at Magic Kingdom now has a long-standing reputation for being bad and would likely have a very difficult time ever eclipsing EPCOT or Animal Kingdom even if kitchen facilities were improved and shuttered locations were re-opened. This reinforces the behaviors outlined in 1-3.
That said, I still think what is there is insufficient and that any calculation revisions these behavioral changes might warrant would not outpace the total increase in attendance, but I do think it might be slightly more nuanced than reusing the original formula.
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The program calculations for a single park and a multi-park resort are not that different, and nowhere near different enough to create an inverse correlation where significantly increased visitation requires less capacity dining capacity. There was a net loss of capacity that has still not been replaced.

And again, we’re not talking about a small or even modest increase in visitation, but a near doubling. In order for that to be offset by people going elsewhere the Magic Kingdom would have to have a serious late morning exodus. We’d all be talking about the flood of people who leave the park and how mid-day has the lowest wait times.
 
networkpro

networkpro

Well-Known Member
In the Parks
Yes
lazyboy97o said:
Programming analysis tends to be done before something is built. It’s not really a day-to-day operations thing.
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Oh day to day operations does alter service delivery post construction as imagined things, procedures, and real costs meet the cruel Mistress Reality. Now its tempered by the hard structures and equipment that's built and installed, but sometimes what looks great on paper turns into an operational nightmare.
 
lazyboy97o

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
[
Chi84 said:
Sure more is better. I would like enough rides and restaurants so I would never have to stand in line or wait for a table.

But in my experience that’s not how life works. We have to reserve tables in local restaurants or wait in line for a table. We buy express passes at local amusement parks or stand in line. Theaters and airplane seats are also limited and sometimes sell out.

I’m not making excuses other than to say popular venues rarely afford unlimited capacity.

I’m still not sure why you believe capacity is insufficient as opposed to simply reduced.
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We’re not talking about unlimited capacity. We’re not even talking about stagnant capacity. The world’s busiest theme park lost dining capacity that it has not replaced.

I know the math involved in programming. But beyond that, I’ve walked through the Magic Kingdom. I’ve eaten at Skipper Canteen and seen that it doesn’t fill the whole Adventureland side of the building. I’ve seen the lines at Cosmic Rays while the Tomorrowland Terrace sits empty. I’ve seen the lines at Pecos Bill’s while Tortuga Tavern sits empty. I’ve seen the lines at Pinocchio’s Village Haus after Friar’s Nook closed up at 5:00 PM. I use this example because it is so easy for anyone to just go see for themselves.
 
networkpro

networkpro

Well-Known Member
In the Parks
Yes
TrainsOfDisney said:
Diverse compared to MK. That’s what we are talking about here.

Epcot and DAK (I think) has more diverse food than MK. Not as an opinion but as a fact.
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So the standard for being diverse in MK is different than other parks ? Not trying to be offensive or nit-picky but most kids are looking for chicken nuggets, burgers, hotdogs, fries and anything coated in pure sugar not adventurous at all... its all the parents looking for something other than the typical kid cravings.
 
Chi84

Chi84

Premium Member
lazyboy97o said:
[
We’re not talking about unlimited capacity. We’re not even talking about stagnant capacity. The world’s busiest theme park lost dining capacity that it has not replaced.

I know the math involved in programming. But beyond that, I’ve walked through the Magic Kingdom. I’ve eaten at Skipper Canteen and seen that it doesn’t fill the whole Adventureland side of the building. I’ve seen the lines at Cosmic Rays while the Tomorrowland Terrace sits empty. I’ve seen the lines at Pecos Bill’s while Tortuga Tavern sits empty. I’ve seen the lines at Pinocchio’s Village Haus after Friar’s Nook closed up at 5:00 PM. I use this example because it is so easy for anyone to just go see for themselves.
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What busy venues do you visit where there are no lines?

Some places are more popular than others and will have lines while others are much less crowded.

For some reason Pecos Bills and Cosmic Rays are more popular and more crowded than Columbia Harbor House. I doubt opening another restaurant would change that.

Anyway, I agree that shorter or nonexistent lines would be better but that just doesn’t line up with my experience of how life works.
 
lazyboy97o

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Chi84 said:
What busy venues do you visit where there are no lines?

Some places are more popular than others and will have lines while others are much less crowded.

For some reason Pecos Bills and Cosmic Rays are more popular and more crowded than Columbia Harbor House. I doubt opening another restaurant would change that.

Anyway, I agree that shorter or nonexistent lines would be better but that just doesn’t line up with my experience of how life works.
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Why don’t keep going with the straw man of no lines? You claim to not be making excuses but keep lying about my position. I have never said no lines. Earlier I even stated that you do not want your design capacity to match your peak demand.
 
Chi84

Chi84

Premium Member
lazyboy97o said:
Why don’t keep going with the straw man of no lines? I have never said that. Earlier I even stated that you do not want your design capacity to match your peak demand.
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Sorry I should have said short lines. Most popular places I visit have pretty substantial lines.
 
Chi84

Chi84

Premium Member
lazyboy97o said:
Name one time where you experienced a popular place better handling more people by becoming smaller. Which popular restaurant was able to accept more reservations by moving to a smaller space?
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Has Disney been moving popular restaurants into smaller spaces? I remember they would open additional rooms in the Pecos/Tortuga location when it became too crowded.

I don’t find CS dining as much of a problem now that we use mobile ordering. It really hasn’t been an issue our last few trips. I haven’t seen the kind of super long lines we saw in past years. Maybe there’s a good balance of mobile ordering and cashier ordering. The kitchens seem to be keeping up.
 
lazyboy97o

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Chi84 said:
Has Disney been moving popular restaurants into smaller spaces? I remember they would open additional rooms in the Pecos/Tortuga location when it became too crowded.

I don’t find CS dining as much of a problem now that we use mobile ordering. It really hasn’t been an issue our last few trips. I haven’t seen the kind of super long lines we saw in past years. Maybe there’s a good balance of mobile ordering and cashier ordering.
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The total dining capacity (quick service and table service) of the Magic Kingdom is lower…

Mobile ordering does not increase capacity.
 
Chi84

Chi84

Premium Member
lazyboy97o said:
The total dining capacity (quick service and table service) of the Magic Kingdom is lower…

Mobile ordering does not increase capacity.
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My entire question - and I believe that of others - is whether current capacity is insufficient (not just less) and needs to be increased in order to meet a level acceptable to guests while also taking into account the business considerations of Disney.

Everyone knows by now that total dining capacity is lower, that you believe mobile ordering doesn’t help and that people are waiting in lines.
 

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